Armis, PICISI sounds like a great business opportunity! I sent you a PM so we can discuss this opportunity further. We are excited to see what partnership we can establish! Thanks for reaching out.
PM received, email sent; look forward to your sponsorship of PICISI. |
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Here is our newest PICISI Sponsor list |
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Given the dates this involves you could still get a refund -- call them.
So, I called them. They are rejecting my chargeback based on the following policy: 13.3 Ineligible Items. PayPal Purchase Protection only applies to PayPal payments for certain tangible, physical goods. Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:
Intangible items, including Digital Goods
About fraud: basically they say they would only consider it as fraud if I didn't willingly initiate the transaction, i.e. if my account was hacked. The fact that the recipient of the money did not fulfil any kind of agreement, contract, deal etc. doesn't qualify as fraud as per their policy above.BTW, what's the reason why you still have not given him negative feedback about the transaction?
Basically because it was too late, the scammer had abandoned his account (not logged in for a long time), and he had already got several negative feedbacks from people in DefaultTrust. But I just did. you might want to be more guarded with your email address (hint: erase the images)
Unless I've missed something, the only e-mail that I exposed is his, not mine, but thanks  (on the screenshot above, I'm the buyer, he's the seller) Fraud trumps all of that. you were a victim of fraud, their system facilitated the fraud and my guess is, without doing an ounce of investigation, that you were not the only person defrauded of your funds via PP. This is a case of fraud, "fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain", you were a victim of fraud and Paypal knows it. Their attempt to hide behind policy is sad. If any of the other people that issued him negative feedback also did a transaction via PP you might be able to put more pressure on paypal. If you have a few people that were scammed though the PP system it might show some negligence on PP's part. Focus on the fraud and demand that they reopen the dispute and to give it special handling. When you call make sure that the person you get is a nice person, not someone who sounds like an enforcer but rather one that sounds like they really want to help you. |
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Sad that you tried a "trick" to get your money, all you needed to do was to tell the truth. Your correspondence with the seller would have proven that he didn't send the merchandise to the address you requested. The TXID is empirical evidence of the actual facts of the matter.
Actually I didn't have the 'tell the truth' option: Picking 'Item dispute' here wasn't possible. I can only paraphrase the error message that was given, as trying to reproducing it now gives me another error message because I already filed a dispute for this transaction and my claim was rejected (I can't do it again). The initial error message was something like "this transaction is not eligible for seller protection". My understanding is that when you choose "family & friends" type of transaction, you can't dispute it, at least not this way. So the only option left was the second one i.e. unauthorized transaction. This forces you to imply that your account was hacked, to change password etc. I did mention, in the description field, that it wasn't the case and that instead, the receiving account wasn't legit, i.e. Timothy White is not a real person / is a fake identity. It didn't help. Nevertheless, it looks like you still have not issued negative feedback. If it's true that he didn't have neg feedback before you dealt with him and now he has lots of negative feedback perhaps some of them would have been warned if you issued him neg fb when you realized you were scammed.
Your point about giving negative feedback ASAP to protect others is valid. That being said, the scammer used delaying tactics. There was an unfortunate coincidence: scammer pretended that his account was frozen immediately after I sent him the money, because of suspicious activity. At the very same time, I noticed that the credit card that I used for the transaction was blocked by my bank for real (I still don't know why, probably automatic anti-fraud algorithms / patterns). This gave some credibility to his claim. If you look closely at his trust reports, you will notice that his scamming activity was very short, from 2015-02-16 to 2015-02-19, i.e. 3 days. Lifting the blocking of my credit card and sorting things out took me just about the same time, so it was a bit too late already. His account was created on November 19, 2013 and a quick review of his posting activity at that time didn't make it suspicious, although by now I would suspect that the account was only bought recently by the scammer. This is why I don't like the forum policy of 'officially' allowing account resale, although I'm aware that prohibiting it by the rules couldn't prevent it entirely. My point here wasn't to complain about it, otherwise I would have done it in scam accusations. I take responsibility for getting scammed because I didn't protect myself enough, it was a risk that I was willing to take at the moment. My point was rather to ask how PayPal as family & friends payments can be charged back at PayPal level (i.e. not credit card charge back). Ok, the rejection you received for Friend & Family thing was perfunctory; although you are not technically covered you were a victim of fraud. You have to have them understand that you were just following the instruction you were given by the seller. Paypal will handle this sort of thing on a case by case basis. If it seems that you lied as opposed to going with the only option that you thought fit your situation they won't go to bat for you, however if you could show them that the guy was a scammer, and that you didn't try to deceive them but they system didn't allow you to give the most accurate picture of what occurred you might be able to get your refund. Given the dates this involves you could still get a refund -- call them. BTW, what's the reason why you still have not given him negative feedback about the transaction? you might want to be more guarded with your email address (hint: erase the images) |
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I'm still puzzled by the PayPal chargeback thing. About 2 months ago I was at the other side of the transaction, buying BTC for PP from several users here. Obviously I had to send PP first. Most transactions went smoothly, but I eventually got scammed for a "small" amount (about $80) by this user.My mistake, I was in a hurry to get BTC to buy digital goods, so I took that risk quite recklessly with the family & friends kind of PP payment. The user was noob but didn't have any negative feedback by then, and I thought the worst case scenario was that he wouldn't send the BTC but I could chargeback with the "my account was hacked" trick that had been discussed previously in other topics. Turns out that when I attempted to charge back, my requested was rejected by PP within 48 hours and without any human-written explanation (just the default template like "request reviewed by staff but denied"). Bottom line is that the scammer has got my money and I've got nothing but that stupid story. I could try to chargeback on my credit card, but I won't bother because I hate the paperwork and hassles that CC chargeback procedure involves. I didn't even bother to leave negative feedback on the scammer since he had already got plenty in the meantime and had obviously abandoned his account. I just won't deal with noobs again, even when I want something quickly and I'm short of BTC  Sad that you tried a "trick" to get your money, all you needed to do was to tell the truth. Your correspondence with the seller would have proven that he didn't send the merchandise to the address you requested. The TXID is empirical evidence of the actual facts of the matter. Nevertheless, it looks like you still have not issued negative feedback. If it's true that he didn't have neg feedback before you dealt with him and now he has lots of negative feedback perhaps some of them would have been warned if you issued him neg fb when you realized you were scammed. _____________________ PayPal Masspay is presumably unchargebackable.
Although that is true, most people don't know how to do it, and it only involves business accounts (unless they changed things). You will find that not everyone at PP are experts like they would want you to believe, most have no idea about Masspay. ______________________________ We all know the number one reason why PayPal isn't used in trading Btc is because of Chargebacks. Does anyone know how we can prevent this, say like providing receipts or maybe making someone signs a legal document. I would like to make a site to host these transactions and I would like it to be hole free, any ideas?
You should only do it if you are willing to back-up the enforcement of the legal agreement. 90% of the time when paypal is dragged into court they lose, but 99.99999% of the time no one sues them. Bluffing doesn't work with PP, only real lawsuits or real crazy people willing to do real crazy harmful things. If you are not willing to back-up your enforcement with court or crazy, then simply follow PPs rules to the letter of their law. When you do a deal send the merchandise by USPS mail with DC (fat envelope), if it's over $200 make sure that you get signature confirmation and tracking. Talk to the USPS to see if the merchandise could be covered by insurance, if so make sure to get it. |
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John, PICISI is looking for an Official Exchange Sponsor. In the coming weeks I want to launch PICISI -- a crowdfunding website that accepts fiat and cryptocurrency. The platform will accept all publicly traded CCs, and any fiat accepted by Paypal. PICISI will have many sponsorship opportunities for CCs: - Host CC - is the currency that all other CCs will be converted to for a particular Campaign. - Campaign - sponsor’s logo is affixed to body of campaign. - Donor Perk - CC escrowed on behalf of a specific campaign to be used as a perk, if not sold is converted to host CC and donated to the campaign - Advertising Perk - CC escrowed on behalf of a specific campaign to be used as a perk, if not sold reverts back to the sponsor. Unsold funds are NOT donated to campaign. and - Video - 5 sec message at start of campaign video: “This video is brought to you by …” But we will also have a fantastic sponsorship opportunity for a CC exchange. After we issue the PICISI tokens, on a regular basis we plan to use the fees derived from fiat to buy PICISI tokens at our official exchange sponsor's site. Unlike most other coins the PICISI token will be connected to a business, a business that would actually use the token in its day-to-day operations. PICISI will be paying for assignments, most specifically promotions via marketing, publicity, and outreach. Our site will hire a sea of independent contractors to do work from an extensive list of assignments. Work of varying sorts from creating graphics, videos, and badges, to writing articles, doing interviews, and making referrals. Everyone is paid with PICISI tokens, when fiat arrives we immediately use the fiat to buy PICISI tokens at prevailing rates at the site of the Official Exchange Sponsor of PICISI. You sponsor us, we use your site to buy PICISI tokens, over and over again. You have a choice of paying for the sponsorship opportunity or providing in-kind service for the transactions we do. Whoever becomes the official exchange of PICISI will have a lot of people pointed in their direction as a direct result of the relationship. Let me know if you have an interest, here is our currency sponsor list: |
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We are ahead of schedule on securing all pre-launch goals except recruitment of Admins, please help us find a few good people to run PICISI. Here is our pre-launch goal update: 1) secure a min. of 6 admins, we now have 2; 2) secure a min of 20 sponsors, we now have 16; 3) secure a min of 8 campaigns to crowd fund, we now have 6; 4) secure a min of 2 promotion contractors, we now have 10: 5) secure a min of 1 referral agent, we now have none: 6) secure a min of 1 campaign contractor, we now have 10; and 7) publish a min of 5 articles to highlight major aspects of PICISI, currently we published 3. Here is our current sponsor list: |
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We are ahead of schedule on securing all pre-launch goals except recruitment of Admins, please help us find a few good people to run PICISI.
Here is our pre-launch goal update:
1) secure a min. of 6 admins, we now have 2;
2) secure a min of 20 sponsors, we now have 16;
3) secure a min of 8 campaigns to crowd fund, we now have 6;
4) secure a min of 2 promotion contractors, we now have 10:
5) secure a min of 1 referral agent, we now have none:
6) secure a min of 1 campaign contractor, we now have 10;
and
7) publish a min of 5 articles to highlight major aspects of PICISI, currently we published 3.
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question, are there any plans for direct involvement with the art community, if so to what extent?
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Thanks, its always good to receive encouragement. I'll answer any PICISI question you have, plus we publish a new article about a different aspect of PICISI every 6 days on average. This is very cool. You are building a good service. Looking forward to learning more about it. I'm pleased to announce that WorldAidCoin (WAC) is PICISI's newest sponsor. Here is our new sponsor list: [img]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uZH_S4Tojh4/VRv_PRR_vzI/AAAAAAAAArI/5PTKuVknMJM/w890-h506-no/8.png[/im] PICISI is a crowdfunding site that accepts fiat and crypto, it will launch in the coming weeks. There will be many paid sponsorship opportunities after launch 1) Free sponsorship or paid sponsorship it's a smart move either way 2) PICISI will be the ONLY crowdfunding site that accepts both fiat and cryptocurrency 3) PICISI is the only crowdfunding site that gives cryptocurrency platforms a place to enable their coin to be actually used, not just donated but actually spent by the person receiving the funds. 4) If your coin is a host currency at a campaign that means that every other CC that is donated to that campaign will be converted to your currency before credited to that campaign 5) The PICISI mantra is Promotion, Promotion, Promotion which means that we not only promote the PICISI message, but also the message of our sponsors, and the message of our individual campaigns too. Rarely does crowdfunding sites actively promote campaigns at their site, they expect the organizer to do all of the work. Nothing is required of our sponsors however we know that as PICISI grows in popularity so too will the popularity of our sponsors. HYPER recently accepted free sponsor, a few days later they announce our connection in an article. This was very smart on HYPER's part, and something each of our sponsors should do -- make news by announcing the relationship then connect the relationship to future progress. HYPER is a purpose coin that focuses on Gaming and Game Development so think about it, each time PICISI has a new gamer or game developer that wants to crowdfund their new game HYPER has an opportunity to be associated, through sponsorship, with that exciting new thing. And through that connection write a new article about how HYPER is sponsoring this cool new innovative thing, in this way they will be constantly in the news connected to bright new ideas. WAC doesn't have to sponsor bright new shinny things, however they may want to sponsor other projects associated with the Charity section or the Health section. The point is to have something relevant to constantly keep your coin in the news. PICISI can do that for you like no other vehicle can. |
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I was looking for a 'press' section for alt coins, I could not find one, if one is available let me know I will move this thread there. Here's the subject story: HYPER Joined As Official Sponsor Of PICISI Crowdfunding Startup http://247cryptonews.com/hyper-joined-as-official-sponsor-of-p-i-c-i-s-i-crowdfunding-startup/The story is brief, it talks about Hyper becoming one of the sponsors of PICISI; PICISI is a crowdfunding site currency under construction. I (a PICISI admin) would like to add some additional dimension to the story, I want to highlight a major benefit for HYPER being a PICISI sponsor. Hyper is a purpose coin with an area of concentration on Gaming and Game Development. Crowdfunding sites essentially cater to things that are new, cutting edge, and newsworthy even if they don't get the notice they deserve. PICISI's mantra is 'Promotion, Promotion, Promotion', so you could expect heavy promotion on our part. When a coin, in this case HYPER, becomes a sponsor of a crowd funding site that focuses on promotion, they are not only able to create numerous connections with various innovative projects that invariably will get some deserved media attention, but HYPER will enjoy some of that media attention too. In this way every time an cutting edge game hits the site it behooves HYPER to make the connection as a sponsor. Eventually, HYPER will be well recognized as a force in the mainstream gaming industry. HYPER will be able to provide a more positive view of cryptocurrency to the general public. Other purpose oriented coins could benefit in much the same way as HYPER, I know there are coins that are related to: Charity, Science Research, Technology, Education, Politics, Renewable Energy, etc ... |
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CryptoDatabase / Technology / Crypto Database Development / Crypto Database is a website that catalogs Cryptocurrencies, offers a price checking tool, has it's own faucets, hosts games where you can earn coins for playing, and much more. / $500 / HYPER will be the host CC sponsor / for more info visit http://cryptodatabase.net/crowdfundperfect, thanks |
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I'd like to welcome Coin2 as PICISI's newest sponsor: |
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New campaign added to inaugural group of crowdfunding campaigns: KingArbinV / Gaming Development / Chain of Conflict campaign / Chain of Conflict is a First Person Shooter that will be original in its gameplay in terms of the standard FPS type games, at the moment its in early alpha. / $7000 / HYPER will be the host CC sponsor / Playable Demo>> Demo http://coinstore.me/games/CoC/________________________ CryptoDatabase, please provide particulars: 'campaign category, campaign title, campaign info, campaign goal, host CC sponsor, link to additional info (vid, site, etc ...).' Will this suffice http://cryptodatabase.net/crowdfund or does it have to follow a certain template? thanks for the info, here is what I gathered, the parts in brackets are needed: CryptoDatabase / Technology / [need campaign title] / [campaign description will go here] / $500 / HYPER will be the host CC sponsor / for more info visit http://cryptodatabase.net/crowdfund _______________________________ I'd like to welcome Coin2 as PICISI's newest sponsor: |
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New campaign added to inaugural group of crowdfunding campaigns: KingArbinV / Gaming Development / Chain of Conflict campaign / Chain of Conflict is a First Person Shooter that will be original in its gameplay in terms of the standard FPS type games, at the moment its in early alpha. / $7000 / HYPER will be the host CC sponsor / Playable Demo>> Demo http://coinstore.me/games/CoC/________________________ CryptoDatabase, please provide particulars: 'campaign category, campaign title, campaign info, campaign goal, host CC sponsor, link to additional info (vid, site, etc ...).' Thanks for having my campaign Armis, also as leader of the Coin2 team, Coin2 will also be sponsoring this campaign. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=824499.0Coin2 will be added to the PICISI sponsor list, welcome aboard. Please note that host CC sponsorship can only be done by a single sponsor for the length of the campaign. The same goes for the video sponsor. The perk sponsor and campaign sponsor may have many different sponsors during the campaign. |
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Vegas thanks for your message. I have 4 3 free sponsorships available, any CC community leader many request one, if you are a community leader for Bottlecaps I would be happy to add Bottlecaps name and logo to the sponsor list. Outside of that, a donation of any amount from any CC will get the CC added to the sponsor list. As for "multipool", I don't understand the reference, please elaborate. PICISI is currently sponsored by: |
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New campaign added to inaugural group of crowdfunding campaigns: KingArbinV / Gaming Development / Chain of Conflict campaign / Chain of Conflict is a First Person Shooter that will be original in its gameplay in terms of the standard FPS type games, at the moment its in early alpha. / $7000 / HYPER will be the host CC sponsor / Playable Demo>> Demo http://coinstore.me/games/CoC/________________________ CryptoDatabase, please provide particulars: 'campaign category, campaign title, campaign info, campaign goal, host CC sponsor, link to additional info (vid, site, etc ...).' |
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I have a number of pre-launch prerequisites to manage one of which is to have at least 8 crowdfunding campaigns, if you or someone you know has a project that they want to crowdfund please give me the particulars. There will be at least 8 campaigns on the day we launch hopefully more than that.
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I'm pleased to announce that WorldAidCoin (WAC) is PICISI's newest sponsor. Here is our new sponsor list: |
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