Dont you think guys it will become market indicator, kind like a starfish? Im not sure if this is good.
Interest rate is one of the most important fundamental indicators in forex market. Same thing will apply to Bitcoin market too. When interest rate rises, there will be an upward pressure on the value of the currency. However, this is not likely to have a significant effect now because the money market is very small, and Bitcoinica is the only guy that offers interests for Bitcoin deposits. |
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typical zhoutong, he makes an announcement and then just ignores questions he doesn't like
edit: please provide company info, i found nothing on your website
Currently, I'm the official operator of Bitcoinica, and I'm also the CEO of xWaylab Inc., a Delaware-based corporation. I'm ignoring your question because that has been addressed 5 months ago on bitcointalk.org. However, there is going to be a change in the corporate status to allow financial services to be provided with full compliance, but we are unable to disclose more information. Ok i understand. I'm not aware of any discussion regarding your company, so please provide some links to it. Please post some contact information, phone, address and such, company website doesn't seem to be up. edit: is this information accurate ? Tong, Zhou
xWaylab Inc.
2711 Centerville Road
Wilmington, Delaware 19808
United States
Telephone: +1.3024828086
Fax: +1.3024828086 Yes, this is the information that we submitted to the registered agent during the incorporation. All our identity information is on file with our registered agent. I can totally understand the community's general feelings towards a new Bitcoin business, and that happened to Bitcoinica before. But now I guess the majority of the community has no trust issues with us and the primary debatable topics are more related to the whole Bitcoin market. We have a significant market share in Bitcoin trading, and we are also holding a huge amount of customer deposits. In the future a few weeks, we will make our legal information fully available to our users. So please just wait while we're getting everything ready. |
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typical zhoutong, he makes an announcement and then just ignores questions he doesn't like
edit: please provide company info, i found nothing on your website
Currently, I'm the official operator of Bitcoinica, and I'm also the CEO of xWaylab Inc., a Delaware-based corporation. I'm ignoring your question because that has been addressed 5 months ago on bitcointalk.org. However, there is going to be a change in the corporate status to allow financial services to be provided with full compliance, but we are unable to disclose more information. |
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Soothe our fears and tell us why Bitcoinica will not be hacked and tell us about how our money will not be stolen out of thin air?
Bitcoinica has been running great for the last 5 months, and we're the fastest growing Bitcoin business ever. Also, we will soon announce our new corporate status. Thank you. One more thing: Will you ever require IRS paperwork and identification for large American Bitcoin withdrawals? If you ever have to, will you warn us beforehand? Currently we don't have any KYC procedures. However, in the process of being fully compliant, we may have to require identification one day, but we will definitely announce in advance. Just don't worry about it. |
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Soothe our fears and tell us why Bitcoinica will not be hacked and tell us about how our money will not be stolen out of thin air?
Bitcoinica has been running great for the last 5 months, and we're the fastest growing Bitcoin business ever. Also, we will soon announce our new corporate status. |
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- Oh dear #2. The BTC bought with your 100,000 USD are no longer worth 100,000 USD.
When Bitcoinica users are making net losses, the losses are deducted from their own accounts. You still get your $100,000. Yes; I was too hasty with that point. Withdrawn. I've gotten my Bitcoinica issues the wrong way around. My worry is that you can't cover profits; not losses... but that's been covered in a different thread, so let's not reopen it here. My other point stands though... - Oh dear #1. Bitcoinica can't just liquidate random positions to get you your 100,000 USD; this is therefore not a demand-deposit account. You'll have to wait for those longs to liquidate.
Are you going to operate some sort of 10 day notification period for withdrawls? Are you going to assume all deposits are fair game for use as reserve, or will it be opt-in? When our customers have deposited a lot of money into Bitcoinica, we will set out a fixed reserve for withdrawals and liquidation of positions during redflag events. We will make sure that everyone is able to withdraw on demand. And we have also got a Trusted Mt. Gox account that allows $100,000 of withdrawals everyday. |
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Zhountong: you have plans to create its own exchange? I think it will help the inflow of fresh money ..
No, there're no plans for independent exchange now. We will continue using Mt. Gox. |
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We are glad to announce that we have started the public test run of our interest system. We are the first website to offer interests for Bitcoin deposits. This post is intended to explain how the system works. For prevailing interest rates, please visit https://www.bitcoinica.com/pages/interestFor interest rates charts, please visit http://charts.bitcoinica.com/interest_ratesDaily Pip vs APYDaily Pip is the standard unit of interest rate in Bitcoinica. A pip represents 0.01% in interest rates. (e.g. 4.17 means interest of 0.0417% daily). APY stands for Annualized Percentage Yield. It's a representative measure of interest rate that helps you to compare with similar products (bank deposits, bonds, money market funds, etc). Bitcoinica deposits are compounded daily, therefore if the interest rate is 4.17 (daily pip), the APY should be 1.000417^365 -1 = 16.44%. Assuming you deposit $10,000 with us and the interest rate is always 4.17, you will get $4.17 every day or $1,644 every year (with compound interest). Position swapDue to the interest rate differentials, BTC/USD positions carry some interests. When you long BTC/USD, essentially you are buying BTC and selling USD at the same time. Assuming that USD interest rate is higher than BTC interest rate, you should pay for the interest difference if you want to keep your positions. The interest difference is position swap. Our Interest Rates page shows the effective hourly swap points for BTC/USD positions. For example, Long Position -$0.21
Short Position $0.18
That means you have to pay $0.21 every hour if you keep a $10,000 worth of long BTC/USD position, and you are entitled to receive $0.18 every hour if you keep a $10,000 worth of short BTC/USD position. The position swap is equal to the difference between the buying interest rate of the currency that you bought and the selling interest rate of the currency that you sold. (Long BTC/USD: BTC Buy - USD Sell. Short BTC/USD: USD Buy - BTC Sell.) The value of a trade is the multiplication of the absolute amount and the base price. If the base price is negative, the value of the trade is zero. How to get paid?We calculate your interest payment every hour, and we pay you every day between 00:00 - 01:00 UTC if your unsettled interest payment is at least 0.01 (in either USD or BTC). For open positions, we calculate the swap every hour, and you will receive/pay the position swap when you fully liquidate the position. Is Bitcoinica a ponzi/pyramid scheme?The general aim of our interest system is to encourage people to deposit their money with us so that we can provide more reserves for leveraged trading. Also, we want to design the first money market for the Bitcoin community. All the interest rates you see are prevailing rates. They are subject to change every 30 minutes depending on actual demand and supply of money, and our reserve levels. We never guarantee a fixed earnings for your deposits. Our general design principle is that we always pay less interest to our customers than what we receive from them as position swaps. Therefore, we will never use your deposits to pay for someone else's interest payment. This will make sure that we're not running a ponzi scheme or pyramid scheme. What's the maximum interest rate?The maximum interest rate for now is 5.0 daily pips. That's 20.02% APY. This interest rate cap is subject to change. Is Bitcoinica licensed to run this?Yes, we are now a fully licensed financial services provider. Unfortunately, we are not able to disclose more information at this moment. We will announce this in detail at a later date. When does the test run end?The test run will end at February 16, 00:00:00 UTC. You don't pay/receive position swaps if you close your positions before that. But you are entitled to receive interest payments on your currency account balances. If you close your positions after the cut-off date, you will still have to pay/receive the position swaps incurred before the cut-off date. What's the interest rate now? |
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- You deposit 100,000 USD at Bitcoinica
- Bitcoinica lifts the "*" and uses your USD to buy BTC for leveraged long risk takers
- Leveraged risk takers lose when market moves against long risk takers
- One week later, you want your 100,000 USD back
- Oh dear #1. Bitcoinica can't just liquidate random positions to get you your 100,000 USD; this is therefore not a demand-deposit account. You'll have to wait for those longs to liquidate.
- Oh dear #2. The BTC bought with your 100,000 USD are no longer worth 100,000 USD.
I'll say it again: Bitcoinica is backing its users net imbalance (at best). That means they are relying on their users to make a net profit. If their users make a net loss, then Bitcoinica makes a net loss. When it's their own reserves... well whatever; but this new plan is to use your money instead of their own as reserve. What happens then when their users make a net loss? When Bitcoinica users are making net losses, the losses are deducted from their own accounts. You still get your $100,000. |
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Wait, do i understand tha right? You are paying 17% anno, for my usd balance on Bitcoinica?  Yes. You're right. 17% risk free. Paid daily. But the interest rate is a variable, depending on the supply and demand of money. We are short of USD now, and that's why the interest rate is so high. |
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Zhountong: please do make an official announcement explaining all the terms and possible situations for your users, because when I looked it up first I was confused really hard (and I'm still not certain that I understand fully how this works).
Sure, I will do it in a few hours on the forum. Thanks for your support! |
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Is this related to the new "swap" column; and "unrealized swap" summary item?
Yes, exactly. But they don't count towards your currency balance until February 16 UTC. So if you close your position before we start settling the swaps, you won't be affected by this change. |
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so ppl who started LONG at 2 will be kinda "forced" to liquidate or they will have to pay fees for that position
It's not significant. At current rate (which could be highest in history), it costs $0.21 per hour to maintain a 5,000 BTC long position start at $2, or just $5.04 per day, or just 0.7% of unrealized profits per month. |
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Today's interest rates: |
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You're faster than our official announcement (which will be posted later)!
It's important to know that we sometimes pay for open positions as well. For example, we pay interests for short positions at this moment.
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I see this as a manipulation attempt based on the predictions of what will happen if $5.4 breaks. It doesn't make any sense otherwise, someone who simply wanted to exit the market with 40k BTC would've sold smaller amounts at a time, not all 40k at once. The market had no signs of crashing so the seller would've got a much better price by selling in smaller amounts. That dump was very intentional, the question is will people fall for it. I'm not falling for it.
edit: I am not sure it is a loosing operation. thinking.... Just like this?: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=52336.0  Zhoutong, could you let us know if any or what role Bitcoinica is playing here?  Nothing. The total forced liquidations today is less than 500 ฿. |
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The starfish is the most trustworthy trading indicator in the bitcoin market.
Yup, it has to go.. if you cant fully leverage everyone 10 to 1, DONT OFFER ANY LEVERAGE MORE THAN THAT!!! Im fucking sick of this Bitcoinica, its ruining the market How did Bitcoinica ruin the market? Basically Bitcoinica pushed the price up (from longs on margin) until it runs out of the available reserves. If we didn't offer leverage then the rally wouldn't happen in the first place. We stopped offering "more leverage" when we realize that we can't afford more. That's exactly what the asterisk means. |
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So... Where'd all the nice quotes graphs go? Last month's quotes all vanished when we hit february.  Is the usefulness supposed to go to zero on every new month?  You can change the URL to view all previous dates. :-) |
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Thank you for the error report. However, I couldn't reproduce the problem under default settings of my browser. Most likely you have disabled JavaScript. Because the Bitcoinica website is designed with REST principles, we send a DELETE method to the position URI to liquidate it. Modern browsers do not support this method yet without JavaScript. Basically, GET https://www.bitcoinica.com/positions/7625and DELETE https://www.bitcoinica.com/positions/7625mean different things to our servers. If you use GET to retrieve the page, it will return an error because it's undefined. |
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