I am as today officially out of Horizen (Horrific-Zen) I don't support projects that do not support their community.
Just turn off my 2 secure nodes and pointing my rigs to Ravencoin and Monero, selling all my zen and disconnecting from this blog.
Moreover, if all GPU miners turn off their secure nodes it will show the community discontent.
farewell!
Nice to see someone with "PRINCIPLES;" unlike the founders at ZEN who have no principles. What REALLY bothers me is how one of the founders talked TONS of people into investing in GPU's to mine ZEN and support his project; THEN disrespects them and their investment by not going ASIC Resistant. It's quite clear they are more concerned with the consistent flow of revenue coming in each month from Dev Fees than they are about the GPU miners (COMMUNITY) who supported them and got them going. ZEC founders/developers did the same damn thing. I wish them luck getting disciples to go around marketing ZEN like their GPU miners were doing. Their "COMMUNITY" will now consist of a few ASIC miners and manufacturers of ASIC's and maybe a few speculators. As for as any expectation of REAL SUBSTANTIAL GROWTH, that expectation is GONE. I see a LOT of their so-called "COMMUNITY" moving over to Monero. |
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Look, Sir. You can choose to believe whatever the hell you want to believe. BOTTOM LINE: I've been in this business for over three (3) Decades [In and out of the military] and I KNOW what the hell I'm talking about. You're NOT QUALIFIED to even make such FLAT STATEMENTS you're making. IF you don't even know what Longitudinal and Metallic currents are, YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO COMMENT.
I thought you were full of crap, too, but after reading your explanation above I see you are just using obscure terminology. The more generally accepted terminology is "common mode current" for what you are calling "longitudinal current" and "normal-" or "differential-mode current for "metallic current." BTW, I'm none too pleased with the direction ZEN is taking these days, too, so thanks for speaking up. Yes, the terminology you're using is normal lingo in electronics. I'm using terminology specific to transmission in communications and transmission of Power on power lines. |
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Moving to a blockDAG should allow us to collapse the difficulty to a point where single GPU solo mining is possible once again. This has been talked about for 8+ months now and has always been the mid term solution we're aiming for.
The recent decision simply means that we aren't willing to risk a drop in hash by shifting parameters.
The real solution to decentralise mining is and almost always has been the blockDAG, that's why it's a fully funded project that's already well underway.
Rowan Stone
Is there a link to further detail on what you mean by creating/moving to a 'blockDAG'? Had a look on google on what it is but there isn't much that is concise - interested in what it means for Horizen perspective. The recent announcement was only focused on not shifting the algorithm despite asics, which is why you see frustration on this forum. I didn't see any detail about a blockDAG protocol that would somehow allow single GPU solo mining down the track. If this was explained, you could allay some concerns. I mean, if you look at this article from just last week, it details Horizen's commitment to ASIC resistance and the blockDAG protocol as two separate things: https://www.finextra.com/pressarticle/75156/zencash-rebrands-as-horizonQuote: In collaboration with established partners, Horizen plans to research and develop a ZenVault wallet, blockDAG protocols for significantly increased scalability, and ASIC mining resistance.So is a blockDAG protocol related to asic resistance? And if so, how? I've determined the guys at ZEN are doing nothing more than spending a LOT of money on marketing ploys while acting like politicians [Riding the fence to TRY to please both sides] while having NO REGARD for the GPU community who got them to where they are today. They have PROVEN to me they only give a damn about their precious marketing of a coin creating promises THEY CANNOT KEEP without implementing certain things I have yet to see implemented. I'm NOT going to tell them what they need to do in order to keep their promise of privacy either since they have absolutely NO REGARD for the community. I was asked a few months back to give an unbiased review of ZEN but I told them I have to do some research into their projects. As I dug deeper to see what goals they had in mind; I was like, "Damn, they have a hell of an undertaking if they expect to do what they are promising." They sure as hell don't want me to give a review now because it WOULD be a negative review. They have yet to PROVE to me how they will avoid government surveillance BEFORE a customer's data ever gets on their precious blockchain. |
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How would you propose to solve the problem?
That's why I get paid $1,600 to $2,000 a day (8 hours) plus expenses; to answer questions like that. If solving a more serious issue over a longer period of time, the charge can be more with contract. Bottom Line: I've been keeping my mouth shut; waiting to see how ZEN was going to pull this off. I have yet to be convinced. |
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Again... there is no signal modulation happening across power lines. A computer has no physical capacity to do so without a modem being covertly added. And at that point, why bother with trying to send signals across a power line? You can just send them wirelessly to a transceiver on the outside of a house.
Look, Sir. You can choose to believe whatever the hell you want to believe. BOTTOM LINE: I've been in this business for over three (3) Decades [In and out of the military] and I KNOW what the hell I'm talking about. You're NOT QUALIFIED to even make such FLAT STATEMENTS you're making. IF you don't even know what Longitudinal and Metallic currents are, YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO COMMENT.
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Are you saying that the NSA has a backdoor into every device? Yes, that's what a lot of the hoopla was about with intel chips having been found to have a chip within a chip of sorts designed specifically for the NSA to be able to drop in on you without having to use your password. That's why Russia has gone as far as to begin making their own chips to go in their own devices instead of buying chips from Intel and AMD.
Did you not hear about this in the news about a year or two ago. That's the reason Intel stock took a big hit during the time this was made known to the public. I want to say Snowden released that information on Wikileaks as well.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/09/intel-promises-fix-chip-flaw-left-billions-devices-vulnerable/
I didn't have to hear it in the news to KNOW this was occurring.Eh... iOS code at Apple goes through rigorous tests to make sure that it's not backdoored or compromised. Unless Apple want a backdoor to exist... it doesn't just appear out of thin air. The back door is there just for Apple and for whom Apple allows to use the backdoor. If you want to Trust Tim Cook's Globalist Cabal ass, be my guest.What are you talking about here? What is a "metallic current?" There's TWO (2) DIFFERENT TYPES OF ALTERNATING CURRENT. Meaning, THEY BOTH ALTERNATE BUT IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
Longitudinal Current flows in the SAME direction on two conductors (Tip and Ring) to Ground.
Metallic Current flows in OPPOSITE directions on two conductors (Tip and Ring) and NOT to Ground.
The Tip and Ring is the name of each conductor of a twisted pair used in wire line telephone. Where did the term "Tip and Ring" come from? If you watched the Telephone Operator on Andy Griffith at that old switch board with cords; she had a cord with plugs on each end that looked similar in shape to the plugs you see on the end of headphone cords. These cords had a TIP that was Grounded and a Ring around the tip with voltage on it for switching purposes.
Hmmm... this sounds made up. AC current is converted to DC current to run a computer. If there was a signal present on the AC current, it would be destroyed in the AC-to-DC conversion. And second... computers don't respond to a signal unless there is a hardware device that can interpret and process the signal. No device exists in your standard computer, and it certainly doesn't exist in your AC-to-DC converter.
That's where you're wrong, Sir. I'm a Transmission Engineer and have taught engineering design of the outside plant to Outside Plant Engineers and Telephone Technicians how to use their meter to identify and locate troubles since July 27, 1997. I've been in the industry since 1984.
Even ADSL modems use both Longitudinal and Metallic current in it's transmission of data. Why the hell do you think you can still have internet without dial tone caused by a hard short on your twisted pair going to your house? A "HARD" short creates TWO Metallic paths. However, You can still have excellent internet with your ADSL modem with that hard short on the line. You're subject to have no voice transmission but will still have excellent internet transmission with a HARD short. WHY? Because LONGITUDINAL CURRENT isn't studying a short. Longitudinal Current flows on each conductor past that short to ground. As long as there is capacitance to ground; longitudinal current can flow on that conductor until the capacitance to ground ends.
I'm NOT going to give a detailed course on here explaining how the conversion from longitudinal currents on the power line can be used to see DATA transmitted in a modem LONGITUDINALLY. POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) used to be strictly Metallic Current. Now, in the age of VOIP (Voice of Internet Provider), the voice is also transmitted LONGITUDINALLY; NOT METALLICALLY through CLEC's (Competitive Local Exchange Carriers) but metallically through most ILEC's.
But again, I'm not going to explain this to you nor do I have to. If you choose to be naive, that's your choice. Not mine... Most of the surveillance done on copper wire is done with Longitudinal Current. SOME is done with Metallic Current over plain old telephone service but not as much as it used to be.
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Exactly how is ZEN CHAT going to work on a phone anyway? I understand they will have an app maybe for your phone. Tell me exactly how that's going to keep the NSA, Apple, Samsung, etc... away from still seeing every single keystroke you make? The ONLY way to keep key strokes encrypted is to stroke keys on an external hardware device; like Trezor for example. Your key strokes can easily be seen on a desktop, laptop and mobile phone by other means before it's sent through an app to be encrypted and go on the blockchain.
The ONLY way ZEN is going to pull this off is to create an external hardware device.
Is someone going to honestly carry around an external hardware device to connect to their mobile phone via bluetooth to chat to someone by typing on that external hardware device? Good luck getting people to do that.
If people want their data PRIVATE, they would need to keep it on a different external device that encrypts the data before the data actually goes through another device and ride on the internet. No?
So, once again, for ZEN to actually pull this off, they will need to create an external hardware device. Preferably a device that doubles as an unlocked mobile phone with the ability to work on any carrier and connect to the ZEN blockchain via a data link. Why preferably a mobile phone? Because most people will not want to carry around multiple pieces of hardware for the sake of privacy. Most don't even care about their privacy at the expense of convenience.
The downside to creating an encrypted mobile device to keep ALL your data PRIVATE is people should not download other apps to that device that could potentially spy on them or take their coins. They won't be able to play games on their encrypted mobile phone if they're into that kind of thing. Again, ZEN is forced to wrestle with solving the issue of "inconvenience" using such a device for the sake of privacy. I would if someone made it available. My major concern in that case would be, "Is this another Cook telling us our data is protected, when in reality it's not? In the end, the user would have to TRUST the word of the manufacturer and/or provider that there really is no way for ANYONE to have a key to the encryption to actually see our data, etc...
Bottom line, if people actually want PRIVACY, the best way to have it is by not ever letting it touch the internet without first going through a hardware device and you TRUST the creator of that hardware device that they are not being paid under the table to provide a key to unlock the data from a government agency.
Monero, has PROVEN their commitment to ASIC resistance and LOYALTY to its community by their ACTIONS. What has ZEN proven? That they will sell out their community in favor of larger manufacturers who will dominate mining. Who's to say they will not also sell out users of their so-called PRIVATE services to government agencies for dollar bill?
If I'm wrong, please correct me...
ZenChat is the most secure messaging application on the market and can be used as a standalone product or embedded within our Wallets. Users are able to communicate 1-on-1, through group messaging, or set up dedicated private channels. Channel communication costs a minimal amount of ZEN to prevent clutter and spam. ZenChat messages are stored permanently in the blockchain to prevent metadata leakage and are encrypted with algorithms such as AES-256 with Perfect Forward Secrecy (PFS), matching current standards of encryption for secure communication. Secure Nodes communication relay is non-traceable. https://www.horizen.global/zenchat/https://github.com/ZencashOfficial/ZENChat/releasesBy typing on what device that's "stand alone?" What piece of hardware do you have available to connect to a desktop, laptop or mobile device to encrypt what you type before it goes through that device [encrypted] onto the blockchain? Sounds like a damn political talking point to me. So damn what they are stored permanently in the blockchain. I'm sure the NSA stores them as well from key strokes before they ever hit your damn blockchain. WHY the hell do you think Trezor has a hardware device to encrypt data BEFORE it goes through a device to go to the blockchain?BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND HOW HACKERS and GOVERNMENTS CAN SEE DAMN KEYSTROKES PRIVACY is not as cut and dry as some of you make it out to be!Apple says our data is protected on an iPhone. Yet, the NSA can easily see EVERYTHING in that iPhone without it being unlocked. They can hear people talking even when you THINK the phone is off. All of that crap in the news a while back with CNN and others acting like they were mad at Apple for not allowing the FBI to have a master key to all iPhones to unlock iPhones was nothing but a Psy-Opp. They want the population to think our data is safe on an iPhone when that is further from the truth. Here's another example: If you have a smart meter on the side of your house to measure your power consumption, that smart meter can be used to convert longitudinal currents on the power line into metallic currents used by the device [and visa-versa] to hack into your lap top or desktop WITHOUT IT CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET VIA CONVENTIONAL SOURCES; such as telephone or cable modems. Your device CAN be connected to via the power outlet the moment you connect it to power to charge it up. There is more to the smart meters on the sides of our homes and businesses than the population is aware of. I bet you didn't know that did you? I worked in intelligence in the Marine Corp. You'll be SURPRISED what the government can do. The power companies were actually trying to get a license to provide internet to customers a few years back but it was denied by the FCC. Why? Because intelligence did not want the cat out of the bag about how they can access devices through the power line without you being connected to the internet via conventional means. The government can spy on you through a device the moment that device is connected to a power source. Especially, if the power source is monitored by a smart meter. To take that previous example about connecting to devices through power lines a bit further: If an agent needs access to a computer held by a terrorist in a country without smart meters, they have to use actual feet on the ground with access to the terrorist power in their building or home to then connect a device to their power line to gain access wirelessly from a safe location to hack their computer the moment it's plugged into power. The terrorist thinks they are safe not connecting to the internet with that device with sensitive information but they are sadly mistaken. I was actually curious about how ZEN was going to pull this off with PRIVACY of all our data. Because I "KNOW" it's NOT possible without a hardware device that's encrypted before it's connected to any other device. Yes, ZEN would be able to keep users data private from most people. But from governments or institutions with the means and the knowhow to see our data, it's not cut and dry as most people might think. Right now, all I'm seeing/hearing is a marketing ploy to get adoption with fancy slogans and artwork. I have yet to see any REAL SOLUTIONS from this project to actually keep our data private from governments and institutions with the means and the knowhow to access our data. |
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Exactly how is ZEN CHAT going to work on a phone anyway? I understand they will have an app maybe for your phone. Tell me exactly how that's going to keep the NSA, Apple, Samsung, etc... away from still seeing every single keystroke you make? The ONLY way to keep key strokes encrypted is to stroke keys on an external hardware device; like Trezor for example. Your key strokes can easily be seen on a desktop, laptop and mobile phone by other means before it's sent through an app to be encrypted and go on the blockchain.
The ONLY way ZEN is going to pull this off is to create an external hardware device.
Is someone going to honestly carry around an external hardware device to connect to their mobile phone via bluetooth to chat to someone by typing on that external hardware device? Good luck getting people to do that.
If people want their data PRIVATE, they would need to keep it on a different external device that encrypts the data before the data actually goes through another device and ride on the internet. No?
So, once again, for ZEN to actually pull this off, they will need to create an external hardware device. Preferably a device that doubles as an unlocked mobile phone with the ability to work on any carrier and connect to the ZEN blockchain via a data link. Why preferably a mobile phone? Because most people will not want to carry around multiple pieces of hardware for the sake of privacy. Most don't even care about their privacy at the expense of convenience.
The downside to creating an encrypted mobile device to keep ALL your data PRIVATE is people should not download other apps to that device that could potentially spy on them or take their coins. They won't be able to play games on their encrypted mobile phone if their into that kind of thing. Again, ZEN is forced to wrestle with solving the issue of "inconvenience" using such a device for the sake of privacy. I would if someone made it available. My major concern in that case would be, "Is this another Cook telling us our data is protected, when in reality it's not? In the end, the user would have to TRUST the word of the manufacturer and/or provider that there really is no way for ANYONE to have a key to the encryption to actually see our data, etc...
Bottom line, if people actually want PRIVACY, the best way to have it is by not ever letting it touch the internet without first going through a hardware device and you TRUST the creator of that hardware device that they are not being paid under the table to provide a key to unlock the data from a government agency.
Monero, has PROVEN their commitment to ASIC resistance and LOYALTY to its community by their ACTIONS. What has ZEN proven? That they will sell out their community in favor of larger manufacturers who will dominate mining. Who's to say they will not also sell out users of their so-called PRIVATE services to government agencies for dollar bill?
If I'm wrong, please correct me...
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All of the small guys buying ASIC's to mine this coin will soon find out the hard way just as I did a long time ago mining Bitcoin with ASIC's; that they cannot compete with the manufacturers. The only community this crackpot team will have remaining will be operators of secure nodes and super nodes along with a few centralized ASIC manufacturers. And probably some speculators on the exchanges. As far as actually USING this coin? Hell no! I'm pointing everyone towards Monero.
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i loved the zencash brand.. now, not so much. maybe because of their initial statement that they support asic resistance and not keeping it strait on that road.
Yes, they sold out to ASIC just as Zooko and ZCash sold out. Monero has my support. To hell with a team who doesn't give a damn about the community who helped promote them and get them to where they are today. To hell with them. No point getting notifications or following this thread anymore. Good riddance. Horizen is not "Sold to ASIC" just some very tough decisions cannot be done fairly without voting, I think Rolf explained this very good: - Security of this project is priority - This project is not all about mining - There are a lot of things need to be done in coming period, we are sticking for the road map. Horizen Statement on Mining Algorithmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeKY0pls8 I respect your opinion and understand your anger, and I can only encourage you to stay with us and continue contributing to this project. Many GPU miners will still stay in this project, holding nods and waiting for a new features. Horizen (ZenCash) Not Going to Change Algorithm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-ZEPnlu1RQ&t=199sZenCash Rebrands To Horizen | Official Announcement Zen Mining Algorithm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBW31Oz3LGI&t=1sSticking to the road map while saying, "To hell with community." Let the GPU miners support us with secure and super nodes. Well, I call B.S. I'm waiting to sell my ZEN and saying the hell with it from then on. No, it's not all about mining. However, GPU miners WERE your community. Not anymore! You kicked us out the damn car while riding down the road and locked the door. To hell with this project. |
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Is there a Monero "signature" available for us to promote Monero on bitcoin talk?
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i loved the zencash brand.. now, not so much. maybe because of their initial statement that they support asic resistance and not keeping it strait on that road.
Yes, they sold out to ASIC just as Zooko and ZCash sold out. Monero has my support. To hell with a team who doesn't give a damn about the community who helped promote them and get them to where they are today. To hell with them. No point getting notifications or following this thread anymore. Good riddance. |
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At least, till now, it seems that ZenCash team (by now, it is Horizen team) have made smart decisions to change the algorithm. Being ASIC-resistant is one of the most important things to maintain good ROI for miners and partially prevent terrible Replay Attacks, alongside with high required confirmations, Secure Nodes, Service nodes, etc. You need to read the damn article. They are NOT changing a DAMN THING! GOOD RIDDANCE. They've sold out. Hello Monero and that's the coin I'm promoting from this day forward. |
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.@Caijing, a major financial publication in #China, just published an in-depth piece on the #BitmainIPO fiasco: massive Q2 losses, pre-IPO investors jumping ship / denying involvement, tech team behind S7/S9 left and now no new advancements, AND patents are rendered invalid.🍿📉 The massive losses in Q2 explain WHY the push for an IPO.https://twitter.com/Excellion/status/1034413924605603840 |
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Natwest is a commercial bank, Horizen bought it ?  @falsealarm_bf1 @dmwardjr My bad, I didn't get it. No worries, Mate. |
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how much a supernode produces per month? locking 10k away is not that easy but i will do it if the rewards are ok.
A supernode needs 500 Zen stacked, not 10k 500 HORIZEN x $20.0 USD per HORIZEN = $10,000 USD. |
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What do you guys think of idea ZEN to become multi POW coin.
One POW would be ASIC, one would be GPU frendly. Reward would be evenly distributed between between them.
That way both, ASIC and GPU proponents would be happy, and security of the chain would increase significantly.
Other proposition is to have 3 POW, one for ASIC, GPU and CPU, so that everyone have their opportunity to acquire ZEN.
GPU (and CPU) POW will be closely monitored and if hashrate increases significantly, hard fork to maintain GPU (CPU) mining will be conducted.
And ASIC"s would be made for the GPU friendly version. You know it would. So, what's the point? How is it solved? By using an algorithm like PROG Proof of Work to put ALL HARDWARE (GPU's, ASIC's and FPGA's) ON AN EVEN KEEL. THAT is how everyone will be happy! Period... If PROG Proof of Work is used, what is the point of having an ASIC chain? There is NO POINT in it. Period. |
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This is a utopian ideal, that doesn't work in the real world. As long as there is an incentive to mine, people will find faster and better ways to do so. The whole point to POW was to present an incentive for people to participate and secure the *decentralized* network that supports bitcoin.
Me a damn utopian socialist/communist piece of crap? Don't even try to put that crap on me! How the hell is affording everyone the SAME "OPPORTUNITY" a damn utopia? I sure as hell did not say, "Take from one group and give to another!" I simply pointed out everyone should be afforded the SAME OPPORTUNITY without having to compete against a manufacturer who uses the hardware they make to mine for themselves and compete against their own customers WHILE selling that hardware to their customers at astronomical prices compared to their own cost of hardware they mine with. ANYONE supporting HORIZEN and values their PRIVACY would have no affiliation with the CRAP you're TRYING to attach me to with this so called Utopian crap! You STILL don't get it cause your mind is weak and easily manipulated OR you are shilling for ASIC's and trying to convert weak and/or ignorant minds yourself. You're STILL not reading my damn post! Have you NOT seen my post for PROG Proof of Work? Apparently not. -OR- You are ignoring it and don't want to mention it to keep it quiet from those who may be ignorant that such an algorithm actually exists. There are ALREADY two different proof of work algorithms available that put ALL hardware (GPU's, ASIC's and FPGA's) on an even keel for the most part.How much of an even keel? 1.1 to 1.0 -OR- 1.2 to 1.0 in favor of ASIC's and FPGA's. Meaning, an ASIC or FPGA would only have approximately a 10 to 20 percent better hash rate. HOWEVER, THEIR POWER EFFICIENCY WOULD BE KEPT PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS GPU's. This would FORCE manufacturers of ASIC's and FPGA's to compete on the manufacturing cost of their hardware with GPU's if they are to compete at all for those who wish to mine coins on the PROG Proof of Work or similar algorithm.Horizen is ALREADY looking into algorithms of this type for the future. So, our discussion is OVER... Done!!! ANY argument you may have to the contrary in favor of your precious ASIC's/FPGA's is meaningless. Get over it! |
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Dude... you need some chill pills.
Quite simply a misplaced one.
No, not chilling! You can take your ASIC shilling, self serving, weak minded propaganda else where. |
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