The difference is GPU miners are not competing against the damn manufacturers. Whereas hobby and 250+ ASIC miners are competing against the damn manufacturer. It's just a matter of time and ZEC will be the same as Bitcoin in regards to ASIC mining.
I know you hate ASIC miners, so I'm just going to leave this link here: https://asicminer.co/shop/asicminer-zeon-180000-solsFor the low low price of $20,000 USD, you can get a 180,000 sols Asic Miner that at current difficulty, will get you ten Zencash a day! A ROI of about six months!.... Well, at least until the market is flooded with Asic Miners like this, or a better one comes out next month  LOL.... Yeah... sure... we can get HEEPS of people to invest in that. Like everyone can go to their pickle jar and dig out $20k to drop on an ASIC. You proved my point exactly! Now how did that manage to bring more and/or encourage more to come to the project and invest equity into the project? Or become missionaries for the project? TRUTH: IT DIDN"T... With GPU's, one can get involved by mining with a GPU they already have in a desktop; a cheap used one off ebay; from an old desktop collecting dust in the storage room. You name it and people can find a way to get involved cheaply with mining WITHOUT ASIC's. It would draw more people because they would actually be able to AFFORD to get involved. THEN [Through experience] they begin to understand crypto more; the project more and spread the word even more. GOT IT? Bottom Line: ASIC's have slowed down the growth and adoption of Bitcoin. Just as it will slow down the growth and adoption of any other Proof of Work coin that opens its arms to ASIC's.The developers/supporters of Monero understand and know this FACT and have resolved to fight against ASIC's. ZEN should do the same. ZEN has a LOT of potential and I don't want to see it led astray by BIG ASIC players with money. Cause if they are led astray and open their arms to ASIC's, then the hell with ZEN and any other coin that does the same. I will only support coins that will support a LARGE community of COMMON folk rather than a small community of BIG players with money. Remember, crypto should be about the SMALL folk; the unbanked; the other 6 billion in the world who have been forgotten.THERE IS STRENGTH IN NUMBERS OF PEOPLE; NOT IN THE DAMN HASH RATE OF AN INDIVIDUAL AND/OR COMPANY OF ASIC's.
YOU WANT PEOPLE AND A LOT OF THEM? THEN GET RID OF ASIC's AND ALLOW MORE TO GET INVOLVED AFFORDABLY WITHOUT HAVING TO GET A LOAN FOR AN ASIC OR HAVING TO BEG THEIR GOVERNMENT TO ALLOW ASIC's; WHILE COMPETING AGAINST THE MANUFACTURER THE ENTIRE TIME.If ZEN developers and founders want us to catch the crumbs (10%) from the BIG table by making us COMMON folk divide up those crumbs (10%) from running secure nodes, while offering BIG players a seat at the BIG table with their BIG money to make the BIG bucks (70%) mining with ASIC's and push out the SMALL/FORGOTTEN ones (the other 6 billion) to compete over crumbs (10%) with secure nodes; then they can keep their damn coin. I want know part of it! I'll support a coin who actually gives a damn about us COMMON folk and the other 6 billion unbanked people in the world.I have no problem with people making money. What I have a problem with is fixing the game to make it hard for the small guy to make a decent amount of money and try to get ahead. I have a problem with fixing the game to make the rich richer by squeezing out MEANINGFUL opportunities for the not so fortunate folk. I'm not asking for a damn handout either! I don't want a hand out. I simply want us all to have the same equal opportunity. That cannot occur with ASIC's. Mainly because of the manufacturers who make them and mine with them; the prices they charge everyone else for them and the governments who ban them.GOT IT?ZEN has a damn good opportunity here to tell the entire GPU community, "We have your back and agree with your ambition for decentralized mining and growing the community." I only hope they don't muck it up this opportunity. The longer they wait to do something about ASIC's/FPGA's, the more they are hurting GPU miners while assisting ASIC manufacturers. |
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In what way did ASICs coming to bitcoin hurt the value or usability of the coin?
By pushing many out from mining with GPU's. You just don't get it and you were NOT paying damn attention to his or my arguments. Go back and read them and you will have the answer to your damn question!
What was his arguement? MORE people have access to GPU's than ASIC's. In fact, there are many countries that ban ASIC's. With more GPU's there would be more people laboring together and become more invested into the project while acting as missionaries for the project. The more a coin gets centralized by BIG ASIC mining companies, the less people there are who can even afford to invest into labor for the coin in the form of mining. Which gives no incentive to invest time and/or equity into the project and does NOT convert newcomers into a missionary for the project and ultimately help the project grow and become adopted much faster.
But you can't seem to understand and/or don't want to acknowledge this commonsense FACT he spells out in his argument (below).Agreed that ASICs suck. They centralize and suck value from coins. I don't believe in equality (regarding income inequality debates) but believe in equal opportunity and not everyone has access to ASICs. (To be overly frank, if you're not sucking Chinese dick you're not getting a good deal on an ASIC in the current market.) "Cryptocurrencies are as much of a social phenomenon as they are a technical innovation. If your community isn’t building with your cryptocurrency they aren’t becoming attached to it. When people put labor, whether that’s running a node or a meetup, into a cryptocurrency they become intrinsically invested in it. That hardens their convictions, solidifies their beliefs, and can turn people who came to your platform as mercenaries into missionaries." https://messari.io/news/dae50c46-e7c7-487e-b3a6-22977809fedeRolf Versluis (also known as BlockOps) is co-founder and Special Advisor of ZenCash.
I agree with Rolf's opinion on not really such a thing as ASIC/FPGA Resistance. However, there most certainly is such a thing as ASIC/FPGA EVEN KEEL. Meaning, ASIC's and FPGA's are put on pretty much an even keel with GPU's at a ratio of 1.1 to 1.0 or 1.2 to 1.0 at best for ASIC's and FPGA's. Especially, with PROG Proof of Work. He mentions PROG Proof of Work in a comment below in purple. He also mentions GPU miners coming over to ZENcash [If there was a fork] to "...use our wallets... which would be good overall for the project."
What disturbs me is the many times [While discussing ASIC's] he said, "...to be category leader."
I wonder which is more important:
Is it more important to become category leader of an ASIC/FPGA coin mined by fewer people and therefore creating a smaller "centralized" community and slow growth in the size of that community?
- OR -
Is it more important to increase the number of people mining to make ZENcash more secure and DE-centralized; WHILE increasing the SIZE of the community with more people having the opportunity to get involved and mine with GPU's?
Rolf Versluis made the following statements in a recent notification update for ASIC Resistance:
"The way to become a category leader for an ASIC is to first become a category leader in an Algorithm. Zcash is, right now, the category leader in Equihash with parameters N=200 and K=9. There are multiple ASIC miner vendors for that algorithm, further securing the Zcash blockchain."
"By making the change, ZenCash would have a chance, over the next year or so, to become the category leader in Equihash 144, 5. Depending on what the ASIC manufacturer’s decide, they might build an ASIC miner for Equihash 144, 5. At that point ZenCash would have the opportunity to be a category leader in an algorithm mined by ASIC’s. That would be a good position to be in from a project security standpoint."
"If Zcash announces that they intend to change to a different Algorithm than Equihash with parameters of 200, 9, that opens up an interesting possibility for ZenCash. There are already multiple ASIC mining vendors for that algorithm. If ZenCash stayed on that algorithm, then when Zcash made the change away from it, ZenCash would have the opportunity to be the category leader in that algorithm."
Rolf Versluis (also known as BlockOps) also said the following:
"It’s also worthwhile to look, longer term, to change to an algorithm that is more balanced between CPU, GPU, FPGA, and ASIC. The most balanced algorithm between GPU and ASIC in production right now appears to be Ethash. There are other algorithms in development, including Prog-POW and Merkle Tree Proof (MTP), that may be even more balanced between CPU, GPU, FPGA, and ASIC. One of the reasons for making this change is to give as many different people the opportunity to mine ZenCash as possible, expanding the community. This type of algorithm might be a good one to change to at the same time that ZenCash potentially changes from blockchain to blockDAG."
"In the mining world, there are many miners who have GPU miners that are finding it unprofitable to mine either Zcash or ZenCash, because of multiple factors, one of them being the entry of Equihash ASIC miners into the marketplace. If ZenCash were to change to a version of the Equihash algorithm with parameters 144,5 that can not be currently mined by ASIC, there would be many GPU miners that were mining Zcash that would change over to mining ZenCash. They would then use our wallets, evaluate the potential of retaining mining earnings for Secure Nodes, and find out more about ZenCash, which would be good overall for the project."
Which is more important:
Is it more important to become category leader of an ASIC/FPGA coin mined by fewer people and therefore creating a smaller "centralized" community and slow growth in the size of that community?
- OR -
Is it more important to increase the number of people mining to make ZENcash more secure and DE-centralized; WHILE increasing the SIZE of the community with more people having the opportunity to get involved and mine with GPU's?
We've already seen ZCash fall prey to ASIC's and give in. We'll soon find out if ZEN will do the same. Unfortunately, I'm not liking what I'm hearing at the moment with this so called, "category leader" stuff.
I do like knowing he sees the logic with GPU miners coming back "They would then use our wallets, evaluate the potential of retaining mining earnings for Secure Nodes, and find out more about ZenCash, which would be good overall for the project." However, does he think GPU miners will stay and support the network by getting involved with secure nodes and super nodes when ASIC's are made for 144.5 parameter and he fails to change the algorithm to something like PROG PoW to put ALL HARDWARE on an even keel?
It seems like it's still up in the air and more 50/50 in regards to an algorithm like PROG PoW to put ALL HARDWARE on an even keel. Yes, I do believe there will be a fork to at least 144.5. I'm concerned about what they do afterwards. Cause like he said, there will be ASIC's on 144.5 eventually.
I "KNOW" there is a LOT involved with transitioning over to another Proof of Work that would make ZEN more open to more miners by putting ASIC's and FPGA's on an EVEN KEEL with GPU's. I'm sure the task may seem daunting. However, I ASSURE YOU, it will pay great dividends down the road if ZEN would change their Proof of Work to put ALL HARDWARE (GPU, ASIC and FPGA) ON AN EVEN KEEL. This way, everyone is happy. There are people living in countries that have actually banned crypto mining ASIC's. They don't ban GPU's. Everyone would be happy if ZEN switched to an algorithm that puts ALL HARDWARE on an EVEN KEEL.
I hope ZEN can see the great opportunity laid before them. They have a great roadmap and only need to increase the size of the community to take part in their vision. Accepting ASIC's will NOT expand that vision to multiple users on a grand scale. I assure you it won't. If GPU's were put on an even keel with ASIC's, then we could truly see ZEN begin to grow astronomically while other alt coins are still struggling to exist.
That's my two cents.
David
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So what's the difference between a hobby miner with one ASIC and a "pro" with 250+ ASICs... and your one GPU gamer and "large" home miner with 250+ GPUs?
I think there is a contradiction between your stance that ASICs "centralize" coins when you accept that 250+ GPU "home miners" are ok. That many GPUs is a business, not a hobby.
The difference is GPU miners are not competing against the damn manufacturers. Whereas hobby and 250+ ASIC miners are competing against the damn manufacturer. It's just a matter of time and ZEC will be the same as Bitcoin in regards to ASIC mining. |
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Did you count the opportunity cost if you would just run secure nodes?
That really sad to hear about mining right now, but we all know that this will change as soon as markets go up.
It's just the question of time
To hell with running a secure node. If I can't mine, I'm NOT going to look into running a node. I'll probably end up selling all of my hardware [And I have a LOT of hardware for a home miner - over 230 GPU's with peripherals]. I'll probably end up spending all of my time and energy on my trading signal and trading education website that's going LIVE in 30 to 45 days. I sure as hell will not buy ASIC's ever again. I got out of the ASIC game in February, 2016 and invested in GPU's. Now I'm getting out of GPU's. Maybe, I'll get back into GPU's again in the future. I just can't compete anymore at current price and difficulty. It's just not worth it. Yes, it would be nice if the price of all coins would go up now. That would alleviate some of the pain from lost profits. However, it would need to rise considerably very soon for me to consider keeping the remaining hardware I have. At least that's the way my situation is. How so? Because I'm my own boss. I haven't worked for anyone else since March, 2010. I've supported my family on mining and trading since 2014. Mining is about dead and now I have to rely on my trading skills I've developed since 2014. For example: Click "Play" on this publication while looking at the candles - https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/P07Gk3YT-Wyckoff-Accumulation-Schematic-Chart-pasted-again-in-comments/Click "Play" in the chart on the left on this publication while looking at the candles - https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/vU8Og7UH-Expecting-Reversal-to-the-Upside-on-the-Magenta-Vertical-Line/Click "Play" on this publication posted August 12th and listen to me explain why I believe we will stay within the neon green rectangle for most of the remainder of August - https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/uh1uZBg9-BTCUSD-Bitstamp-Part-2-of-3-Lower-TF-s-Discussed/ |
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Regarding mining, there are each day less and less miners. Less than an half since one month ago (3600 miners today at suprnova) . No doubt that ASIC´s farms are destroying the small miners community and therefore some part of the supporters too.
I am not totally against ASIC´s operation but in a more mature coin, like bitcoin, litecoin, dash... Not in the early stages of life of Zencash. It hurts more that helps it to grow.
I'm hurting pretty bad right now in regards to revenue verses expenses. I'm very close to zero profit now with all my 1080 Ti's mining ZEN. I recently put 12 x EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3's and three (3) EVGA 1080 Ti KingPin's up for sale on eBay. Just can't take it anymore. I tried to hang in there but I just can't do it anymore. This pisses me off I have to sell them but I must. I still have 54 more. I'm probably going to have to sell another twelve (12) to eighteen (18) more at a minimum just to make ends meet while waiting on the ZEN team to switch to 144.5 or whatever it is they're going to do. I may end up selling all but four (4) of them and be done with it. Simply use those four (4) for large 55 inch 4k TV's to use as monitors for my new trading website I'm about to kick off in another 30 to 45 days. This makes me sad...  |
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Rolf Versluis (also known as BlockOps) is co-founder and Special Advisor of ZenCash.
I agree with Rolf's opinion on not really such a thing as ASIC/FPGA Resistance. However, there most certainly is such a thing as ASIC/FPGA EVEN KEEL. Meaning, ASIC's and FPGA's are put on pretty much an even keel with GPU's at a ratio of 1.1 to 1.0 or 1.2 to 1.0 at best for ASIC's and FPGA's. Especially, with PROG Proof of Work. He mentions PROG Proof of Work in a comment below in purple. He also mentions GPU miners coming over to ZENcash [If there was a fork] to "...use our wallets... which would be good overall for the project."
What disturbs me is the many times [While discussing ASIC's] he said, "...to be category leader."
I wonder which is more important:
Is it more important to become category leader of an ASIC/FPGA coin mined by fewer people and therefore creating a smaller "centralized" community and slow growth in the size of that community?
- OR -
Is it more important to increase the number of people mining to make ZENcash more secure and DE-centralized; WHILE increasing the SIZE of the community with more people having the opportunity to get involved and mine with GPU's?
Rolf Versluis made the following statements in a recent notification update for ASIC Resistance:
"The way to become a category leader for an ASIC is to first become a category leader in an Algorithm. Zcash is, right now, the category leader in Equihash with parameters N=200 and K=9. There are multiple ASIC miner vendors for that algorithm, further securing the Zcash blockchain."
"By making the change, ZenCash would have a chance, over the next year or so, to become the category leader in Equihash 144, 5. Depending on what the ASIC manufacturer’s decide, they might build an ASIC miner for Equihash 144, 5. At that point ZenCash would have the opportunity to be a category leader in an algorithm mined by ASIC’s. That would be a good position to be in from a project security standpoint."
"If Zcash announces that they intend to change to a different Algorithm than Equihash with parameters of 200, 9, that opens up an interesting possibility for ZenCash. There are already multiple ASIC mining vendors for that algorithm. If ZenCash stayed on that algorithm, then when Zcash made the change away from it, ZenCash would have the opportunity to be the category leader in that algorithm."
Rolf Versluis (also known as BlockOps) also said the following:
"It’s also worthwhile to look, longer term, to change to an algorithm that is more balanced between CPU, GPU, FPGA, and ASIC. The most balanced algorithm between GPU and ASIC in production right now appears to be Ethash. There are other algorithms in development, including Prog-POW and Merkle Tree Proof (MTP), that may be even more balanced between CPU, GPU, FPGA, and ASIC. One of the reasons for making this change is to give as many different people the opportunity to mine ZenCash as possible, expanding the community. This type of algorithm might be a good one to change to at the same time that ZenCash potentially changes from blockchain to blockDAG."
"In the mining world, there are many miners who have GPU miners that are finding it unprofitable to mine either Zcash or ZenCash, because of multiple factors, one of them being the entry of Equihash ASIC miners into the marketplace. If ZenCash were to change to a version of the Equihash algorithm with parameters 144,5 that can not be currently mined by ASIC, there would be many GPU miners that were mining Zcash that would change over to mining ZenCash. They would then use our wallets, evaluate the potential of retaining mining earnings for Secure Nodes, and find out more about ZenCash, which would be good overall for the project."
Which is more important:
Is it more important to become category leader of an ASIC/FPGA coin mined by fewer people and therefore creating a smaller "centralized" community and slow growth in the size of that community?
- OR -
Is it more important to increase the number of people mining to make ZENcash more secure and DE-centralized; WHILE increasing the SIZE of the community with more people having the opportunity to get involved and mine with GPU's?
We've already seen ZCash fall prey to ASIC's and give in. We'll soon find out if ZEN will do the same. Unfortunately, I'm not liking what I'm hearing at the moment with this so called, "category leader" stuff.
I do like knowing he sees the logic with GPU miners coming back "They would then use our wallets, evaluate the potential of retaining mining earnings for Secure Nodes, and find out more about ZenCash, which would be good overall for the project." However, does he think GPU miners will stay and support the network by getting involved with secure nodes and super nodes when ASIC's are made for 144.5 parameter and he fails to change the algorithm to something like PROG PoW to put ALL HARDWARE on an even keel?
It seems like it's still up in the air and more 50/50 in regards to an algorithm like PROG PoW to put ALL HARDWARE on an even keel. Yes, I do believe there will be a fork to at least 144.5. I'm concerned about what they do afterwards. Cause like he said, there will be ASIC's on 144.5 eventually.
I "KNOW" there is a LOT involved with transitioning over to another Proof of Work that would make ZEN more open to more miners by putting ASIC's and FPGA's on an EVEN KEEL with GPU's. I'm sure the task may seem daunting. However, I ASSURE YOU, it will pay great dividends down the road if ZEN would change their Proof of Work to put ALL HARDWARE (GPU, ASIC and FPGA) ON AN EVEN KEEL. This way, everyone is happy. There are people living in countries that have actually banned crypto mining ASIC's. They don't ban GPU's. Everyone would be happy if ZEN switched to an algorithm that puts ALL HARDWARE on an EVEN KEEL.
I hope ZEN can see the great opportunity laid before them. They have a great roadmap and only need to increase the size of the community to take part in their vision. Accepting ASIC's will NOT expand that vision to multiple users on a grand scale. I assure you it won't. If GPU's were put on an even keel with ASIC's, then we could truly see ZEN begin to grow astronomically while other alt coins are still struggling to exist.
That's my two cents.
David
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The brand expansion sounds great and all.
What about ASIC Resistance?
The Discord ASIC Resistance Channel is spammed to a point of making it inconvenient for a developer to respond to my questions. I ask for an update and if they have used PROG Proof of Work on a Test Net but NO response; NO update; nothing!
I honestly don't want to interrupt developers and let them do their job rather than spend their time responding to guys like myself who's asking for an update regarding their work on ASIC Resistance. If a developer wanted to even find my question to them about ASIC Resistance, they would have to comb through at least one hundred posts in the ASIC Resistance forum on Discord. That takes valuable time away from developers to actually work on ASIC Resistance.
Bottom Line: The ASIC Resistance forum on Discord is full of spam from Pro ASIC and Anti ASIC rhetoric that allows no convenient communication with developers in a meaningful and profitable way for all of those involved in the discussion.
MedaR,
It certainly would be helpful if you could find out some kind of update for us, please. It would be nice if you could keep us updated on ASIC Resistance WHILE allowing developers to do their work on ASIC Resistance; if they are actually doing any work in that regard.
Is there a team devoted solely to development on ASIC Resistance? If so, where are they at this point? If no team appointed, then why not?
Can you please ask the creator of the Discord server for ZEN to create a forum ONLY FOR CONFIRMED DEVELOPERS? This way they can post updates on ASIC Resistance WHILE BLOCKING others who are not developers from spamming the forum.
Updates PLEASE...
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Fuck Zooko and ZEC ......
+1 Merit |
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Your Discord "sucks" and your moderators on discord "suck."
Can't get a damn answer from developers about a damn thing on discord. Maybe it's because it's the weekend. Who knows...
The moderator freaks out when using capital letters for EMPHASIS; and gives a damn warning for doing so.
Just plain sucks to be so touchy about something so small as using capital letters. Geeeeeez
Good Luck!
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I like this project, unlike anything else ive seen so far
I like it too... However, to be "blunt" (honest; straight forward; frank) I'm not going to get burned promoting something like I have before. I used to promote the hell out of ZCash on other platforms. Especially, Trading View. When Zooko and the rest of the developers sold out GPU miners for ASIC's, it PISSED me off. Pissed a LOT of us off. I will promote ZEN once I see actual transition to a different Proof of Work to exemplify their commitment to ASIC Resistance. Until then, I'm sitting idle on the sidelines in regards to "promoting" this coin on other platforms. If people are "offended" by my honesty, so be it. I really don't give a damn. Being "straight up; honest; blunt; without beating around the bush" is the way everyone should be in my opinion. That includes founders and developers. I don't think it's too much to ask... |
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Sustainable Solution is PROG PoW algorithm. Against ASIC's -AND- FPGA's. It renders ASIC's and FPGA's to only be approximately 1.1 to 1.0 or 1.2 to 1.0 better than GPU's in power efficiency and hash rate.
I'm not so deep in this, but I know if this is feasible, Team will take this in consideration. On the other hand I must stress this again, we are not sure what problems that can cause with zkSNARKs so we just cant rush into something without testing. Again, please join discord channel, you can have direct contact with developers and you can get more accurate informations if this can be or cannot be done, and enjoy discussion on this topic with others.  Sure... Will do... (discord). |
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[color-red = moron]Sustainable Solution is PROG PoW algorithm. Against ASIC's -AND- FPGA's. It renders ASIC's and FPGA's to only be approximately 1.1 to 1.0 or 1.2 to 1.0 better than GPU's in power efficiency and hash rate.[/color]
well done with the color red, it gives you credibility !   Well, red letters should be used only if there is an danger, else they should be avoided, they are not pleasant for eyes. At least it got your attention. Served it's purpose. But I'll choose a different color if I need to "emphasize" something later.  |
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[color-red = moron]Sustainable Solution is PROG PoW algorithm. Against ASIC's -AND- FPGA's. It renders ASIC's and FPGA's to only be approximately 1.1 to 1.0 or 1.2 to 1.0 better than GPU's in power efficiency and hash rate.[/color]
well done with the color red, it gives you credibility ! Really? It's to give PROG PoW "credibility." I don't need credibility! I already have that where it counts. I don't need "credibility" here on bitcoin talk. I've already "earned" it elsewhere. |
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Other day there was a farm with over 22,000,000,000 Kh/s, yes the number is correct. Half of the mining power at Suprnova that day.
Made a calculation and was about 2200 units of Z9 mini units mining...
It was a speculator and was mining almost 6000 Zen/day.
very sad... i hop that each day is passing it will not be a nail in the zen community coffin....
Such numbers are indeed scaring. 2200 units of Z9 mini units mining is almost beyond imagination in this stage, and on the long run it will likely affect the community quite a lot. I think the team has to monitor the situation closely. This is what we know, but what about those experimental machines we are not aware that maybe can be customized for every single algo in existence with very small efforts and surprisingly fast..What if this is future, what then? Fork to different algo can be useless in this situation, so better to look for an sustainable solution instead. This can become our reallity very soon. This is my personal opinion. |
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I have been debating on selling my gpus too and reduce some debt, but keeping my better gpus. Are all yours 1080ti?
I have 232 x GPU's. 58 x EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3 and 12 x EVGA 1070 Ti. All the rest are AMD RX 480's and R9 Fury's. I'm going to sell all of them over the next 30 to 40 days. I'll hold onto the motherboards, power supplies, power distribution units, CPU's, RAM and SSD's for "possible" future use. I may sell all the other stuff as well and focus entirely on trading and my future trading/education website. Scroll down here on page 6 of this thread to see my remodeled mining room. Page 8 shows you what I have done for cooling with 36 box fans: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2865914.100 |
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I don't want to sound like I'm being difficult. I'm simply trying to make sure I "understand" you correctly...
What does the chain manipulation may not requiring a mandatory upgrade have to do with the question that was asked?
"However, potential solutions to mitigate chain manipulation from attacks is being worked on and may not require a mandatory upgrade" This line is taken from this text: https://blog.zencash.com/mandatory-upgrade-zen-2-0-14-super-nodes/This is related to petencinal changes as our answer on 51% attack, first actions maybe won't need hard fork for implementation.. But lets focus now on this fork, and implementation of Super Nodes. I think that nobody wants disastrous forks as result of rushing to get some changes implemented without testing. We need some time to get feedbacks from newely created platform, then we can move on.. Understood... I have the answer I was looking for in order to make financial decisions. The reduction in miner share along with increased difficulty from ASIC's has encouraged my decision to sale my 1080 Ti's and use that money towards trading. Maybe I'll get back into mining in the future. Thanks again for the reply. |
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will zen change the algo?
the hardfork scheduled for today is about the supernodes ? any update on the asic resistance debate?
supernodes and change in the block rewards to increase the secure node portion to 10%, add 10% for super nodes and increase the treasury to 10%. Zen 2.0.14 is the update previously planned before the Equihash ASIC announcement and blockchain attack events. The time frame to include any new changes was too short to address these issues. However, potential solutions to mitigate chain manipulation from attacks is being worked on and may not require a mandatory upgrade. At this time we are staying on our regular deprecation schedule. All Miners and Node Operators must upgrade to Zen 2.0. 14 by block 344700. https://blog.zencash.com/mandatory-upgrade-zen-2-0-14-super-nodes/I don't want to sound like I'm being difficult. I'm simply trying to make sure I "understand" you correctly... What does the chain manipulation may not requiring a mandatory upgrade have to do with the question that was asked? What question? Will zen change the algo? Also, are there plans or are there not plans TO FORK AWAY FROM ASIC's? Can we get a definitive answer on this or not? Murgut's question about changing the algo regarded whether or not we will actually fork away from ASIC's. Will we or will we not fork away from ASIC's? It's a simple question that I believe we (GPU Miners) deserve an answer to. If you want to know why we deserve an answer, I'll be happy to elaborate...This is statement from the Team regarding changing of algo, and there are no new information so far, and this is all I can tell at this moment regarding algo changes. ZenCash Statement on Potential Equihash Algorithm Changehttps://blog.zencash.com/zencash-statement-on-potential-equihash-algorithm-change/Okay, thanks... I didn't realize there was as much to read as before when I last went to that link. I never bothered scrolling down the first time I saw this a while back. A LOT to read. |
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will zen change the algo?
the hardfork scheduled for today is about the supernodes ? any update on the asic resistance debate?
supernodes and change in the block rewards to increase the secure node portion to 10%, add 10% for super nodes and increase the treasury to 10%. Zen 2.0.14 is the update previously planned before the Equihash ASIC announcement and blockchain attack events. The time frame to include any new changes was too short to address these issues. However, potential solutions to mitigate chain manipulation from attacks is being worked on and may not require a mandatory upgrade. At this time we are staying on our regular deprecation schedule. All Miners and Node Operators must upgrade to Zen 2.0. 14 by block 344700. https://blog.zencash.com/mandatory-upgrade-zen-2-0-14-super-nodes/I don't want to sound like I'm being difficult. I'm simply trying to make sure I "understand" you correctly... What does the chain manipulation may not requiring a mandatory upgrade have to do with the question that was asked? What question? Will zen change the algo? Also, are there plans or are there not plans TO FORK AWAY FROM ASIC's? Can we get a definitive answer on this or not? Murgut's question about changing the algo regarded whether or not we will actually fork away from ASIC's. Will we or will we not fork away from ASIC's? It's a simple question that I believe we (GPU Miners) deserve an answer to. If you want to know why we deserve an answer, I'll be happy to elaborate... |
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what is superior in ZEN? zcash is the one who make the rules for them XD every development of zcash will be adopted by ZEN and other forks.. zcash is the king and the komodo is the queen other ZEN,HUSH and other forks, are kids  Komodo, is a shit coin compared to ZEN. ZEN has more to offer to humanity; especially in regards to complete control over your own data, messaging, etc... Good luck with Komodo and ZCash. They're both selling out their community (GPU miners) who got them started by not forking. |
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ZEN is just another shit coin that will not be accepted by investors. NEO is something new in China. Thats why it is raising.
How's NEO working out for you? |
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