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If you don't accept paypal it will seem like it's for the same reason as everyone who doesn't accept paypal, charge backs - this will kill your sales.
If you do accept paypal, you'll do tons of sales, especially from all the people who are planning on charging back. Maybe some bitcoin too eventually.
Don't you want to make more money?
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Do you accept paypal?  |
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Thanks for partaking in this discussion in a civil manner. I agree with you that there's been many unreliable gaming sites out there in the past, especially the one's you named and not to mention other bitcoin sites that have gone "donk down". However it's unfair and illogical to say Betcoin will follow the same route.
Betcoin is owned and backed by WPN, one of the larger poker networks out there. They have no incentive to simply run away with player funds, and I'm sure WPN will not allow it. They are growing rapidly, and therefore have no incentive to close up shop. Regarding the other issues you've brought up, they're working on making the platform air tight in every aspect, but I totally agree with you that those things could be improved upon. They're still an infant company, and there is obviously a lot of improvements to be made.
WPN does not own Bitcoin or Back them. Betcoin is a part of the "Winning Tournament Network", which means they licensed the software and are allowed to sell tickets to some of the tournaments offered by WPN. This is what the tournament director of WPN had to say about Betcoin:  What did Betcoin have to do to join the WTN? Excellent question, they had to follow these 3 easy steps!  not to mention other bitcoin sites that have gone "donk down" Micon would be disgusted with your behavior btw. I think you know how shitty it is what youre doing and hope you eventually come around back from the dark side. |
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2/15/16 Attention: Currently there are ~400 satisfied users under this 40% additional rakeback program and 10,000 - 60,000 satisfied users at Betcoin. This is here to stay! Please don't let a few disgruntled users ( TwitcySeal and 1 or 2 other users) disuade you from this service. They have a problem with Betcoin management, and have decided to hijack this thread. How a few from the poker community feel about Twitchy and company:Wow twitchy and the other trolls have to be some of the biggest dumbest trolls on the internet. Xaio provides a service and provides it very well. He can't do anything about what you are complaining about. He has also shown himself to be of high character with regsrd to the players over and over. I guarantee I've paid more rake to betcoin than anyone here and I don't feel slighted at all. They offer the best rb and xaio is a credit to the players. Continuing to nag him about this is pointless and just makes this thread unbearable.
Wow you guys need to leave Xiao the fuck alone, everything about this service is amazing.
You guys need to lay off, he is just an affiliate. If you have a problem with Betcoin, take it up with Betcoin. It's not his fault and there is nothing he can do about it even if he wanted to.
Is it possible to signup with an existing account? I just created my account like an hour ago and already made a deposit and played a tiny amount. Will they let me be tracked to an affiliate or it's too late? Can I just make a new account?
Yes, why you don't start your own thread instead of filling this thread with garbage. You clearly have mental problems as many people have stated. Start your own thread and say whatever you want.
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from your service. In fact, my advice to anyone thinking about signing up at betcoin is: 1) Keep detailed records of all rake paid especially WPN tournament fees, Poker Tracker or HEM2 is a must, it will only be a matter of time before you are missing funds due to a bug or something and for poker Betcoin offers no financial history other than raw HHs and rakeback already paid. If your missing money, don't expect support to be able to figure out what or why something went wrong, they are completely incompetent when it comes to all things poker. You have to tell them exactly how much they owe you and why. They will usually just pay you as long as you haven't pissed them off.
2) Bump the hell out of tickets. They misuse the CS support ticket system. If a request annoys them for some reason, you will be ignored at least until you "bump" your ticket once or twice. If they haven't responded in a day or so, they are probably hoping you will just forget about it all together.
3) If you make a friend at the tables or in chat, they're probably going to try and scam you. There are several well known online poker scammers who have been scamming for the past 10+ years and Betcoin is the only site that hasn't banned them. They are allowed to make staking/loan threads every day and bump them in chat as often as they want till someone eventually falls for it and sends them money. Next day, they start all over without consequence.
4) Andrew is usually wrong, just pretend you think he's right.
5) Make sure you sign up through Xiaoxiao, he worked out a deal with Betcoin so that they pay every other affiliate a smaller commission. He offers 40% but actually pays closer to 38%. (Also, he may tell you hes an "advocate for the players" but really he's just another shill that has chosen to be a little bitch who puts his income before his dignity) If you've already signed up and dont know who your affiliate is, talk to support. You may have to face the ethical dilemma of choosing to get less rake-back than most regs for the rest of your life or creating a second account. Feel free to use any of this for your OP. (Don't worry about giving me credit, I know Betcoin would not allow you to) |
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Congratulations to the winners of the Sunday Special 285 BTC ($115,000) GTD Poker tournament which ran Sunday February 14, 2016 at 3pm EST
They include:
nowb3athat was the winner Pretty sure he was on Americas Card Room. |
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Betcoins recent statements on over rake issue/theft added to timeline of events  |
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Like I said I am relaying what is told to me. Fundamentally speaking we are in agreement here Twitchy. However you overrate my ability to sway management. There's absolutely nothing I can do about it. That's pretty obvious. If there was something I can do, then I would be part of management rather than a service provider. Could we end this discussion now?
Enough with the "Don't shoot the messenger" BS. I know you aren't an idiot, so quit acting like such a dolt. If Betcoin tells you something you think is BS, here's what you post: "This is what Betcoin told me, I think it's BS though and this is why..." If Betcoin tells you to lie, don't. If you realize Betcoin accidentally stole from players, you tell them to give it back asap so you don't have to warn players about them. If know Betcoin doesn't give a fuck about lying and stealing from players, YOU DONT POST SHIT LIKE THIS: Some of the benefits of playing at Betcoin:
-Insane rewards (especially if you've registered via this service)
-Huge tournament fields and prizepools because of WPN shared tournaments
-The best ongoing promotions!
-Active community forum and chat allowing instant communication with support AND other players
-Incredible security; 2FA, system monitoring of outliers and abnormal activities (such as multi-accounting and collusion)
-Increasing staff and support
-Constant improvement of platform (stay tuned for incredible new features)
Finally, it is clear support is working arduously to improve the platform and ensure everyone's safety. Therefore I urge everyone to be patient when demanding something.
Take care and GL!
I can only imagine the amount of money you are making for such little work so I have little chance of pursuading you to risk it by doing the right thing, but I will continue doing what I'm doing as long as Betcoin refuses to accept responsibility for their decisions. |
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I'd like to keep this thread focused on whether or not there's substantial evidence that ftwbtc1 is an account controlled by Betcoin Management. I'm really just looking for objective opinions on this specific topic. I've been at war with Betcoin for months now, and I truly believe that I am right and they are wrong about most of the issues discussed in THIS THREAD
But It's tough for me to look at this situation without bias and I don't have a smoking gun, so I'm interested in others opinions here, especially if you aren't too involved in the "gambling community" or at least Betcoin.
I've already proven that ftwbtc1 and noobtc are the same person using multiple accounts for the sole purpose of protecting the reputation of Betcoin.ag (you can read about that HERE) Now I want to explain why I believe the person who has been posting as ftwbtc1 since June 2014 and noobtc more recently is "Betcoin Jessica", a member of Betcoin management who also controls the official Betcoin.ag on this forum. First, for those who haven't spent much time dealing with Betcoin support directly, let me explain some of the tactics used by Betcoin management on their own forums/trollbox and here at BTCTalk. These are all used in place of addressing the issue directly and attempting to find a transparent resolution. (I don't really want these tactics to derail thread, but I think explaining them is the best way to point out the connections later) They will often just tell the player directly: - "Play where you are happiest" this is their "nice" way of saying "If you don't like it then fuck off"
If the player doesn't doesn't let the issue go, they might point out:
- "You're still here, that must be because we make you happiest (you're welcome for making you happy)" (they have used this on current players, banned players and players who hadn't played on their site in months)
- "Look how many log ins we have but only 2 or 3 complainers, we must be pretty awesome"
- "We must be doing a really great job since we have so many logins right now and we keep getting more and more new players every day! WOW!"
- "You're complaints can't be valid since you're the only ones complaining"
Reverse psychology: - We are HAPPY that you just accused us of doing something horrible in public. No really, we are.
- Please, keep posting you important questions, if we didn't like it we would ask you to stop. (But if you post them on our forum, we will delete them and ban you)
- We're fascinated with the amount of effort put into these complaints which are invalid. (you're crazy)
- Thanks for bumping our thread, this is great for our business! If it weren't for you, we wouldn't be so successful and we feel bad that we are the ones profiting from your posts so here's a pity bonus "
Here are some examples of Betcoin using these tactics:  And this one from Betcoin, likely the same person as "Betcoin Jessica": We thank you for your interest in this as we agree it has been very interesting to see our thread consistently receiving comments mainly from the same 2-3 people, four if you include us. As the forum rep, my role is to keep the forum abreast as to the updates at Betcoin.ag and we will continue to do so. Thank you!
These are pms between Betcoin and myself: You've already banned me.
If you would rather I weren't banned, you would unban me. Please stop saying things that conflict with the actions of Betcoin.
I can ask as many questions as I want only because you can't stop stop me.
If you could, you would.
You've proven that by deleting the same questions when I asked them on your forum and eventually banning me so I couldn't ask them in chat.
I still have not received answers to many questions even months after asking them.
Acting as if I am helping you by exposing your lies and unethical practices is just childish and I can't see how anyone would believe you would ban me from your site for doing something that you were glad I was doing.
Yes, you have been banned. Yes, the community is a lot smoother and we can focus on fixing remaining issues and adding future additions. We would not stop you, because this is the proper forum for it. We would encourage you as you ask important questions. We are working on a wide variety of things right now from all of our members including you but asking multiple times a day just is not necessary. You are definitely helping bring in new users and we appreciate it. Again, I am just the forum rep and this has also been a good experience for me as well. Much rather than ban you. We don't want to ban anybody.
Even you stated in an earlier message you can see why you have been banned.
You can ask as many questions as you want and we encourage it. Notice we have never asked you once to stop posting. As the forum rep, I have never been busier!
Betcoin is working on many things brought up from all of our great players and will get to everything in time.
Again, we appreciate your vigor and posts. You should be earning from the traffic you are sending over. We would actually much rather have you back in the community. Our staff is working on much of the great feedback you and all of our players have provided. I am the forum rep and as advised by owners, staff etc. going back and forth in a forum is never productive, but staying on the first page in the thread is very beneficial for Betcoin as the referrals from BitcoinTalk have never been higher. We will continue to work hard to make everything as perfect as possible at Betcoin and you will always be welcome back.
Here are some posts from ftwbtc1 which seem using the same tactics, and similar writing style:
I know you want back in because nobody in their right mind would waste this much time spamming unless they wanted to get back involved. Perhaps you have friends you want to talk to there or miss playing the tournaments or whatever else you did there. I can personally say that in chat I have seen people talk about you in a positive light and even seen a discussion led by Betcoin staff member asking how to bring you back in. Examining these communications, they probably would welcome you back, but fear that you would spam their forum as much as you spam here. Plus, if you don't intend to play there, why does it matter if you are banned or not? Personally, I am indifferent I see some good in the things you have mentioned but a lot of bad in your approach. It definitely makes sense to me why you are banned.
EDIT: By the way, I have said many times that I would stop commenting on this topic, but quite frankly I am fascinated. Perhaps I can mediate this matter.
We thank you for your interest in this as we agree it has been very interesting to see our thread consistently receiving comments mainly from the same 2-3 people, four if you include us. As the forum rep, my role is to keep the forum abreast as to the updates at Betcoin.ag and we will continue to do so. Thank you! Why not play somewhere else? I play at many different places, but you should play where you are happiest. I enjoy the community here at Betcoin the most and hope they add the WPN tournaments back in, but casino, sports and dice I also play.
Would that make it ok for Betcoin to behave this way? (Currently I am playing over 50 hours a week across 4 different sites, Betcoin has not been one of them. The last time I included Betcoin in my regular schedule was October 11th, working on explaining why now ) Yes, you sound like a child. Take your money elsewhere. I have had a wonderful time at Betcoin and enjoy the community and all of the options of gameplay. I have also seen you in the player chat and have no idea why you literally spend all day in there. If I don't like a line at Betcoin Sports I have many other great options to spend my bitcoin on and so do you. If you don't like it, you also have many great options as well. Is this a personal issue you have with Betcoin? I understand I have the option to play elsewhere, I've already explained I rarely play on Betcoin anymore - and may never again. Currently I'm playing on WPN through 5dimes, 4 mtts $109, $44, $33 and $160 buyins, all funded by bitcoin. (sn = goatofgoats) So telling me to "go somewhere else" doesn't really make any sense. "forget about betcoin and stop trying to hold them accountable" would make more sense. I'm doing this because I truly believe its the right thing to do Dude are you serious? I see you continue to post and I see more and more action in Betcoin ring games and Betcoin tournaments. You realize that you are bumping this thread and keeping Betcoin in the top spot here? I see several hundred people playing daily including many very high stakes players and I never see them complaining... Betcoin should hire you as their forum / pr rep because you seem to spend a lot of time answering the Betcoin trolls and do a pretty good job at it. The entire interaction is really quite fascinating.
For some great sports picks check out my posts in the forum here and at Betcoin.ag. I think there is great opportunity in eSports wagering because it is so new.
I read that and Betcoin.ag is the best online all around bitcoin casino and they do offer betback, lossback and rakeback. There are over 50 participants in their signature program and I see more and more people want to join. Don't get caught up in the trolls. The more popular a site gets the more trolls they get. Meanwhile I see more new players and activity at Betcoin.ag everyday. I should also add that I enjoy NitrogenSports and used to play at Seals but still play at ACR from time to time. You logged in today. Thank you for coming back. We definitely consider ourselves lucky to be able to provide a wonderful service to so many great people that continues to grow and we certainly will be here to help our great customers anytime. Thank you for your support!
I did indeed, I sent a message to those in the community that I was moving on, I guess the post about Nitrogen and 5dimes wasn't appreciated as I saw it was deleted. Not sure why, as that original post was already there, I just added a line. With the disgruntlement over the sports book reliability I wanted to let people know of the many different options that exist that are actually reliable. However, I do understand the competing books have potential to harm your business if they provide exactly the same lines with more reliability. Hope both the sportsbook issues and the WPN connectivity delays are resolved soon for you. If you'd prefer that I didn't login, please go ahead and delete my account, I won't need it anymore for wagering. The cryptic loyalty program with misleading facts really doesn't do anything for me, so if I changed my mind, starting over wouldn't impact me in the least. It seems like I am missing something. In player chat, it always seemed like you were winning, therefore I am interested to know did you win or lose a lot at Betcoin, did they pay you out timely if you won? My wagering amounts aren't very much but I have had only great experiences with the customer support and love the community. Also, I hope they get the WPN tournaments back soon because I play poker as well as sports, casino and dice, and really enjoy their loyalty program. I for one will miss you in there, but you should play where you are happiest. The fact that you keep responding in here and admit logging in to Betcoin (which I personally doubted) indicates to me you don't want to leave. Maybe you should message them privately and see if you can resolve some issue that you have. I go to Betcoin.ag and see more people playing poker, communicating in the forum, the sportsbook, casino and the dice tournaments than ever. 270 people online right. Keep doing what you are doing guys because as this forum proves you can't please everyone.
You should all play where you enjoy playing. Quite frankly, looking at the time some of you spend on here if you put that into something productive you could actually provide some type of value. I enjoy my experience on Betcoin and get nearly 150% rakeback on my play. There is no other website online offering this for poker play right now. I also play on ACR if there is an issue with Betcoin but the value is far less where I get about 33% rakeback. Also, I get the same amount of rakeback from tourneys on ACR as I do on Betcoin so the value for Betcoin combined with the community and the other activities, sportsbook, dice, and casino makes it the best place for me to play. I see hundreds of people playing at Betcoin everyday and only the same 3 people complaining. Why not just focus your time and play somewhere else?
Edit: later discovered very similar activity times. 
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I think this got lost in this crazy thread (if its ignored bc this is wrong place or some other reason I apologize - dont mean to spam) Not sure if this is the right place for keeping track of known shill accounts controlled by the same person. Accounts connected: ftwbtc1, noobtc Proof: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281850.msg13883749#msg13883749Addresses: Miscellaneous: Betcoin.ag shill accounts. They screwed up recently and made essentially the same post on Betcoins forum and BTCTalk but used different accounts. I am pretty confident I could find enough proof by going through post histories that these two accounts are controlled by the same person who goes by "Betcoin Jessica" on their private forums and the official Betcoin.ag account here just not sure if its worth the effort. |
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Twitchy, you're going on a non stop libeling rampage again. I relayed to you what I'm told at Betcoin regarding the issues you've brought up. I don't have to tell you what % I get or my address, or my passport #. See where I'm going with this?
We both have the freedom to say pretty much whatever we want, let's just have a simple yet rational conversation about the way Betcoin is behaving ok? I think we agree that Betcoin over raked their cash games last November/December We disagree on how much they took and how long it went on. Betcoin has maintained that the period was only 3-5 days and they feel no financial obligation. I think it was happening for somewhere between 40-42 days for a very substantial amount, much more than 10 Bitcoin. I also went into great detail explaining exactly how I came up with this conclusion while taking all the promos and rakeback into consideration. I also shared evidence I gathered to back up my claim. (Im not gonna repost it all since its ITT already, let me know if you can't find any part/I wasn't clear/somethings missing) You have described it as a " brief period" for a "minuscule amount." And so far have refused to elaborate. Do you still believe this is true? If so, why? How are we coming to such different conclusions? If you think any of my calculations are wrong or you find any sort of issue, i'm interested in your opinion. What am I missing? Do you think I could be right? Like I said you failed to consider the multiple types of RAKEBACK that players received; some were prop players and hence received 100%+ rakeback. Other players, such as those under this program, received 50-190% rakeback throughout that period. In essence, both of these groups could be considered prop players to a certain degree. And then you did not calculate the normal VIP/affiliate rakeback of the players. When you factor in everything, the amount is minuscule. I am absolutely considering these players Xiao and I've said before, players obv shouldn't be entitled to any refund for hands played while they were receiving 100%+ rakeback. What about the rec players? Random Rec player that has no idea who is affiliate is and only has time to play about 5 hours a week. He has a 5 bitcoin and set some goals or somthing. trying to grind it up playing 1 or 2 tables of 200NL HU. From October 30 - Dec 10 he played 5000 hands. During that time, every pot over 200 chips that he won - Betcoin accidentally steals 4 chips from him. Every 100 chip pot, they take 1.5 chips from him. Any pot over 40 chips, Betcoin accidentally steals a little bit from him. Do you think after the 5000 hands, this will add up to a minuscule amount for this player? What about random degen who hits a slot jackpot and decides to sit at 25/50 to play a bumhunter for an hour. During the over rake period, Betcoin would have taken over 140 chips from him without him ever noticing. This went on from OCTOBER 30 to DECEMBER 10! I stopped bitching about the money Betcoin owes me long ago, and they probably would of paid me by now if I would just be quiet about all the people they rob who HAVE NO CLUE I'm going to repost 2 screen shots. Please try not to look at them like were just a bunch of fucking idiots. Unlike most users on this site, this isn't players complaining in hopes of a freebies. (Start from Bottom)   |
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Here's a new one.
On the forums this weekend, the player "Mentat" claims that he was a prop for a while and in fact received house funds to play poker with. He also claims that he was refused a cashout for "around 30 coins" but that he received "nearly that amount over time to keep the games going".
So, it seems like Betcoin is paying their house players 30 coins, refusing cashouts, and not announcing that they employ (or the identity of) house players. Sorry for no screenshots, I'm on the run and if nobody grabs them by the time I'm home I'll edit with them.
I've been putting off the whole bot thing because its so hard to actually prove and most of the time when someone cries bot they are idiot fish - but that's what Mentats talking about. They used bots (and Mentat + a couple others) to keep action at the tables up until the day they started the 100% rakeback tablestarter promo. He was getting 100% rakeback and basically just helped "start tables" by playing the bots heads up and short handed. These were very Bots were very exploitable and never changed which resulted in some pretty insane bb/100 Someone gave me this document with info on all the different bot accounts, (Login name, Screen name, Account #, City etc...) The easiest way to tell if you were playing a bot was to check and see if it registered on Jan 22 2015. http://pastebin.com/UsfK4LTmPersonally, I don't have a problem with them putting losing bots out to keep the games going, its a lot different then the GTO bots that are a threatening holdem as we know it. People would probably over react though (and they did anyway) So of course lying about it would be more convienient for Betcoin, so they did, without shame:  How would they identify bots if they don't even know what to look for. LOL I don't know why the WPN allows these guys to share the tournament player base with all the crap that is going on. Bots were never playing WPN tournaments (afaik), they were only at Betcoin cash games. |
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Here's a new one.
On the forums this weekend, the player "Mentat" claims that he was a prop for a while and in fact received house funds to play poker with. He also claims that he was refused a cashout for "around 30 coins" but that he received "nearly that amount over time to keep the games going".
So, it seems like Betcoin is paying their house players 30 coins, refusing cashouts, and not announcing that they employ (or the identity of) house players. Sorry for no screenshots, I'm on the run and if nobody grabs them by the time I'm home I'll edit with them.
I've been putting off the whole bot thing because its so hard to actually prove and most of the time when someone cries bot they are idiot fish - but that's what Mentats talking about. They used bots (and Mentat + a couple others) to keep action at the tables up until the day they started the 100% rakeback tablestarter promo. He was getting 100% rakeback and basically just helped "start tables" by playing the bots heads up and short handed. These were very Bots were very exploitable and never changed which resulted in some pretty insane bb/100 Someone gave me this document with info on all the different bot accounts, (Login name, Screen name, Account #, City etc...) The easiest way to tell if you were playing a bot was to check and see if it registered on Jan 22 2015. http://pastebin.com/UsfK4LTmPersonally, I don't have a problem with them putting losing bots out to keep the games going, its a lot different then the GTO bots that are a threatening holdem as we know it. People would probably over react though (and they did anyway) So of course lying about it would be more convienient for Betcoin, so they did, without shame: ---- Edit, throwing in some proof of over rake: Betcoin Overakes Capped Pots for almost over 600k hands. spoiler alert, they keep it
2/8/15 Edit: I now have hand histories of over raked pots going back to 10/31/15. Hands before this appear to be capped properly. I think we can conclude that the "mistake" happened around midnight UTC 10/30/15.The Betcoin rake issue probably started off as an honest technical mistake on Betcoins part. Any decent site would apologize immediately, figure out exactly how much they owed the players and pay them back in full plus little bit more to be sure they were made whole. November 14th a couple players realized pots were being raked higher than the advertised cap and notified support right away. If Betcoin didn't know they were over raking pots before , they knew now. Here is the earliest ahand posted from a 100 NL 6 max table. The advertised cap was 2 mbtc, they took 6 mbtc. Game started at: 2015/11/14 17:53:36
Game ID: 10143163 0.50/1 Tokyo (Hold'em)
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: luismelo4 (107.34).
Seat 2: Cognative (338.25).
Seat 3: BitBandit (215.22).
Seat 4: nukemecca (168.95).
Seat 9: ungod (29.84).
Player BitBandit has small blind (0.50)
Player nukemecca has big blind (1)
Player BitBandit received a card.
Player BitBandit received a card.
Player nukemecca received a card.
Player nukemecca received a card.
Player ungod received card: [Qc]
Player ungod received card: [3c]
Player luismelo4 received a card.
Player luismelo4 received a card.
Player Cognative received a card.
Player Cognative received a card.
Player ungod folds
Player luismelo4 folds
Player Cognative raises (3)
Player BitBandit calls (2.50)
Player nukemecca raises (6)
Player Cognative calls (4)
Player BitBandit calls (4)
*** FLOP ***: [9s 3d As]
Player BitBandit checks
Player nukemecca bets (10.23)
Player Cognative calls (10.23)
Player BitBandit calls (10.23)
*** TURN ***: [9s 3d As] [4s]
Player BitBandit checks
Player nukemecca bets (33.59)
Player Cognative calls (33.59)
Player BitBandit folds
*** RIVER ***: [9s 3d As 4s] [4d]
Player nukemecca bets (57.94)
Player Cognative allin (287.43)
Player nukemecca allin (60.19)
Uncalled bet (169.30) returned to Cognative
------ Summary ------
Pot: 349.12. Rake 6. JP fee 0.01
Board: [9s 3d As 4s 4d]
Player luismelo4 does not show cards.Bets: 0. Collects: 0. Wins: 0.
*Player Cognative shows: Full House (3/4) [3s 3h]. Bets: 168.95. Collects: 349.12. Wins: 180.17.
Player BitBandit does not show cards.Bets: 17.23. Collects: 0. Loses: 17.23.
Player nukemecca shows: Two pairs. As and 4s [Ac Ks]. Bets: 168.95. Collects: 0. Loses: 168.95.
Player ungod does not show cards.Bets: 0. Collects: 0. Wins: 0.
Game ended at: 2015/11/14 17:54:35 Update: Earliest hand now 10/31 - 11/1 October 31 (EST):[color=red]Winning Poker Network Game #9777237: No Limit Holdem ($0.50/$1) [2015/11/01 02:21:55 UTC]
Table: Tokyo
Seats: 9
Seat 3: g0tjohnd ($153.79)
Seat 4: TheDealer ($158.28)
Seat 5: ungod ($119.24)
Seat 6: Beachside ($86.09)
Seat 8: ChemoJoe ($99)
Button is seat 6
ChemoJoe: posts small blind $0.50
g0tjohnd: posts big blind $1
HOLE CARDS
ungod: dealt [5d 5h]
TheDealer: calls $1
ungod: raises $2
Beachside: folds
ChemoJoe: folds
g0tjohnd: raises $6
TheDealer: calls $6
ungod: calls $5
FLOP [4s 5c 5s]
g0tjohnd: bets $13.97
TheDealer: calls $13.97
ungod: calls $13.97
TURN [4s 5c 5s] [Jd]
g0tjohnd: checks
TheDealer: checks
ungod: bets $20.60
g0tjohnd: folds
TheDealer: raises all-in $137.31
ungod: raises all-in $77.67
TheDealer: pulls back uncalled bet $39.04
RIVER [4s 5c 5s] [Jd] [6h]
SUMMARY
Pot: $253.94 | Rake: $6 | BBJ: $0.01 |
Board: [4s 5c 5s Jd 6h]
Seat 3: g0tjohnd lost -$20.97
Seat 4: TheDealer lost -$119.24 [9s As] One Pair, Fives
Seat 5: ungod won $253.94 (+$134.70) [5d 5h] Four of a Kind, Fives
Seat 6: Beachside didn't bet
Seat 8: ChemoJoe lost -$0.50[/color] Betcoin deleted posts in the main forum bringing attention to it and asked the players to submit a ticket. They made no effort to inform or compensate players, fix the issue, or even reply to thos who had already complained for OVER THREE WEEKS. December 8th I made THIS POST on BitcoinTalk, where they could not delete it,calling betcoin out for all of the above. December 9th Betcoin Jessica STARTED A THREAD offering a 50 mbtc tournament ticket to players who test the rake and report back with "good feedback" Players jumped on the chance at free money and posted how great the rake was and were thanked with free tickets. (There were plenty of tables running at the time, why wouldn't they watch them, look over hand historys, data, etc. Any other site would simply look at data, not player feedback. The only logical reasons I can think for creating a thread like is because they thought the positive reaction to the rewards would help their image, or there were no employees available that understood how rake works.)
Two hands from Sebtember 9th: 6 handed 100NL. Rake should be 2.5% with a cap of 2 mbtc. 6 mbtc is actually raked. 
Heads Up 5000NL, Rake should be 2.5% with a 1 mbtc cap. 5 mbtc is actually raked. At a table like this, Betcoin was taking 4 mbtc they weren't entitled to every time they saw a flop, for over 3 weeks. (Tablestarter rakeback not offered on this table)  December 11th Betcoin makes the following statement: The rake is actually programmed correctly in the system with the proper cap, but appears to be capping at 2 ($0.82) for most tables 5 ($2.14) for some tables and the highest of 8 mbtc ($3.43) for very few tables. To be clear this is still within the lower range of the caps for Poker Stars, Bovada, and Carbon Poker, but certainly not what we have on our rake page. For that we apologize, but we will certainly work through these bugs. There was a backoffice update that caused a variety of errors including the table starter and rake issues. This has been a very enlightening bug as most ring game players are still earning over 100% of the rakeback which is now more and the affiliates are also earning more.
We are working with the software provider to get this fixed and will continue to provide updates at Betcoin.ag. Refunding players who have been overpaying is a bit more complicated because most players are actually getting more than they should! Do we take this away from them and their affiliates? We thank you for your support and will continue to work hard everyday. We just want this to be perfect for all of you and we will keep working hard until we get there. Great action on the tables right now and we will extend the 10 mbtc ring game promo!
Summary:- Betcoin dealt over 588,000 hands between November 14th and December 9th. Each pot that reached the threshold was likely overcharged during this time. I have yet to see a hand history suggest otherwise.
- Claimed: The rake is actually programmed correctly in the system with the proper cap and in the same sentence...but appears to be capping at 2 ($0.82) for most tables 5 ($2.14) for some tables and the highest of 8 mbtc - Claimed that refunding players would be complicated and then ignored the issue (over three weeks ago now) and refused to respond to comments LIKE THIS ONEfrom Dooglus. - Seemed to be justifying their decision not to refund players by pointing out that some players (maximum of two per table) received 100% rake back for starting the table, they made affiliate payments based on the ammount they overcharged and also their rake is low compared to other sites.
Reality: I believe that 20 BTC is a pretty conservative estimate for total rake that Betcoin took but wasn't entitled to between November 14th and December 9th, mostly from the higher stakes players, who are less likely to complain or even care.
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Twitchy, you're going on a non stop libeling rampage again. I relayed to you what I'm told at Betcoin regarding the issues you've brought up. I don't have to tell you what % I get or my address, or my passport #. See where I'm going with this?
We both have the freedom to say pretty much whatever we want, let's just have a simple yet rational conversation about the way Betcoin is behaving ok? I think we agree that Betcoin over raked their cash games last November/December We disagree on how much they took and how long it went on. Betcoin has maintained that the period was only 3-5 days and they feel no financial obligation. I think it was happening for somewhere between 40-42 days for a very substantial amount, much more than 10 Bitcoin. I also went into great detail explaining exactly how I came up with this conclusion while taking all the promos and rakeback into consideration. I also shared evidence I gathered to back up my claim. (Im not gonna repost it all since its ITT already, let me know if you can't find any part/I wasn't clear/somethings missing) You have described it as a " brief period" for a "minuscule amount." And so far have refused to elaborate. Do you still believe this is true? If so, why? How are we coming to such different conclusions? If you think any of my calculations are wrong or you find any sort of issue, i'm interested in your opinion. What am I missing? Do you think I could be right? |
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Not sure if this is the right place for keeping track of known shill accounts controlled by the same person. Accounts connected: ftwbtc1, noobtc Proof: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281850.msg13883749#msg13883749Addresses: Miscellaneous: Betcoin.ag shill accounts. They screwed up recently and made essentially the same post on Betcoins forum and BTCTalk but used different accounts. I am pretty confident I could find enough proof by going through post histories that these two accounts are controlled by the same person who goes by "Betcoin Jessica" on their private forums and the official Betcoin.ag account here just not sure if its worth the effort. |
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Proof that Noobtc is the same shill as "ftwbtc" (Both accounts are likely run by whoever runs the Betcoin.ag account imo)
On Bitcoin talk Noobtc posts this comment:
Interacting with themself: I just signed up at Betcoin and then saw this thread. After reading through it and the attacks to the poster. Are you an employee of Betcoin? How do I get reassigned to you?
I don't believe you can change your affiliate once you have one or get reassigned. There is a lot of trolling going on in here so who knows when Xiaoxiao will be back. Posting as a new signup last week, and a long time user over a year earlier... Just getting started at Betcoin and really enjoying it. Is there a way to change your affiliate? Does anybody know. I did some great research before signing up and tried many different sites. I can see why people like twitchyseal and a few other people are so passionate about wanting to improve Betcoin, because it really is a fun place to play. Twitchy's tactics are completely ineffective though and they come off as spamming trolls IMO. Great value in the VIP at Betcoin, maybe the best online, 24/7 live customer service, great casino, dice, sports. Betcoin gets my vote for best all around bitcoin gaming destination. Keep up the good work and let the trolls be trolls.
Over 1 year earlier.... I have been playing with Betcoin since 2013 and have seen these guys make a lot of changes and improvements. I have experienced instant withdrawals for many months now, can't remember when it first started, but I have noticed I get the instant withdrawals when I use a bitcoin address that I have used before. Keep up the good work guys. You really do have a great thing going.
Attacking me 2 months ago as ftwbtc, and again as noobtc last week...
Also, I just had to comment on these twitchyseal postings because they are quite fascinating. On the one hand he claims Betcoin is a fraud but on the other he is dying to get back onto the site and play! If it's really a fraud why does he want to play on Betcoin so bad? Lol, I have never seen anything like this before. Perhaps by banning him you are doing a good deed in keeping away from his perceived fraud!
Get the table starter going again! Thanks.
I know you want back in because nobody in their right mind would waste this much time spamming unless they wanted to get back involved. Perhaps you have friends you want to talk to there or miss playing the tournaments or whatever else you did there. I can personally say that in chat I have seen people talk about you in a positive light and even seen a discussion led by Betcoin staff member asking how to bring you back in. Examining these communications, they probably would welcome you back, but fear that you would spam their forum as much as you spam here. Plus, if you don't intend to play there, why does it matter if you are banned or not? Personally, I am indifferent I see some good in the things you have mentioned but a lot of bad in your approach. It definitely makes sense to me why you are banned.
EDIT: By the way, I have said many times that I would stop commenting on this topic, but quite frankly I am fascinated. Perhaps I can mediate this matter.
Just getting started at Betcoin and really enjoying it. Is there a way to change your affiliate? Does anybody know. I did some great research before signing up and tried many different sites. I can see why people like twitchyseal and a few other people are so passionate about wanting to improve Betcoin, because it really is a fun place to play. Twitchy's tactics are completely ineffective though and they come off as spamming trolls IMO. Great value in the VIP at Betcoin, maybe the best online, 24/7 live customer service, great casino, dice, sports. Betcoin gets my vote for best all around bitcoin gaming destination. Keep up the good work and let the trolls be trolls. TwitchySeal you need to either get back into Betcoin, I am not sure what you did, but you mention that you have been banned in another thread or you need to get some serious help man. I am not trying to be rude or anything but as a casual observer you look and write like an obsessed maniac. I actually feel sorry for you man. On another note, I really do enjoy playing at Betcoin, it truly is the best all around bitcoin gaming destination.
Post from a while ago pointing out all evidence that suggests ftwbtc is a shill. There is some great value in the following games today and wanted to share. I have been sharing a lock each day the last three days and will continue to do so. ftwbtc, I noticed you posted the same thing on Betcoins forum, which is interesting because when I check your profile it says you registered just this month and still a Bronze 3.  However, on this forum you have - Claimed to have played on Betcoin since 2013
- Said you were active within the Betcoin community
- Said you were Gold Status over 6 months ago
- Called Bullshit on another player for not wanting to share his own screen name
- Asked me directly what my screen name was
- Made over 100 posts that make you seem more like a shill than not - all for Betcoin
- Told several blatant lies to defend Betcoin then acted as if it never happened by ignoring any reference to it (Sound familiar "BetcoinJessica" ?
So whats up with posting on Betcoin from a brand new account? Here's some evidence, as usual, to back up my claims - starting back in Summer 2014... Really enjoy playing here and keep up the great work. I particularly like the sng's especially the Hyper Turbo Heads Up. There are always a few open and when I sit down the game is filled within 2 minutes.
I have been playing at Betcoin for awhile and I have seen them continue to improve and work very hard. I have also been fortunate to place in a wide variety of tournaments with big GTD's. I am still trying to win my seat into the million dollar GTD, but it has truly been a great experience that continues to get better. Really appreciate the opportunity to play here guys. Keep up the good work.
I have been playing on Betcoin for quite some time and have achieved Gold I status. I really appreciate and enjoy the VIP program and have seen it grow tremendously. I play at other websites too, but Betcoin is my main website because of the rewards, constant improvements and community feel. Also, you guys talk about odds straight up, but a Master level at Betcoin would nearly eliminate all house edge throughout the entire website in sports wagering, casino wagering and provide a substantial rakeback for poker play. I will achieve this and report my findings back. I am a winning player overall, but I also enjoy the fact that I am building a profile that also has value and they keep rewarding with more perks and bonuses.
I personally hate to see people waste time, but I guess the same could be said about me responding to you though I don't nearly spend as much time as you.
What is your goal with all of this? What is your player name on Betcoin?
Other people have posted about the same issue but you have chosen to ignore it.
I just checked their website Betcoin.ag and it shows over 300 people online. What people do you speak of?Yes, Betcoin is very safe, I have been playing here for two years and have seen people like you make these claims without a username or substantiation only to disappear. I have never had a problem with Betcoin and have played quite a bit. The support is superior and they continue to provide even better opportunities everyday for us players. They would never cheat you out of $4. This is ridiculously absurd. As for darkdays, I really don't read every post, they are too long and in the Betcoin community there is a lot more going on in there with staking, loans, sports talk, poker talk and more. I enjoy the time in there.
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It's like you're saying the government is corrupt, therefore that government employee is also corrupt. You're on the right track here, but not quite. It's more like I'm saying the government is VERY corrupt, and you're an advocate for the people who gets paid to tell the people that the Government is barely corrupt at all. (which makes you corrupt ) You guys outta be ashamed of yourselves for bringing your filth in this thread. My players are wondering what is going on with the 3 trolls. I provide the best EXTRA rakeback out there. I relay what I am told to you guys. It's simple as that. Betcoin pays you a higher commission than other affiliates earn even at the top tier. Why would they do this? What do you do that sets you aside from other affiliates? I can think of only one thing: You established yourself as a trusted "players advocate" here on Betcoin talk. One of the good guys, with a good reputation. Remember? You said so yourself: yes, I'm certainly an advocate for the players You're not though. You tell your players what bitcoin wants them to be told. Sometimes it's the truth, sometimes it's not, who cares though, you're just an affiliate right? I relay what I am told to you guys. It's simple as that. I'm not even an employee or staff member Normal affiliates can earn up to 50% of their players Casino Losses, 35% of Sports Losses, 20% of Dice Losses and 40% of the rake they generate at poker. You get more. All it costs you is a few hours a week and eventually your reputation.  Was I the one that caused a programming bug that increased the rake? No, but you're trying to help them get away with it. Did I play a part in that? Yes, you're trying to help them get away with it. Do you want me to end this service? I'd prefer you just stop being deceptive and start being completely transparent. Stop it and get a life, the 3 of you trolls. Stop what? |
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TwitchySeal you need to either get back into Betcoin, I am not sure what you did, but you mention that you have been banned in another thread or you need to get some serious help man. I am not trying to be rude or anything but as a casual observer you look and write like an obsessed maniac. I actually feel sorry for you man. On another note, I really do enjoy playing at Betcoin, it truly is the best all around bitcoin gaming destination.
Noobtc is the same person as "ftwbtc" Both accounts are likely run by whoever runs the Betcoin.ag account. Noobtc posts this comment here on bitcointalk.org within 10 minutes of ftwbtc posting his comment on Betcoin... In retrospect, don't slow play those Kings! __ACTl0NNNN is lucky SillySausage didn't have more on the table!
 Interacting with themself: I just signed up at Betcoin and then saw this thread. After reading through it and the attacks to the poster. Are you an employee of Betcoin? How do I get reassigned to you?
I don't believe you can change your affiliate once you have one or get reassigned. There is a lot of trolling going on in here so who knows when Xiaoxiao will be back. Post from a while ago pointing out all evidence that suggests ftwbtc is a shill. There is some great value in the following games today and wanted to share. I have been sharing a lock each day the last three days and will continue to do so. ftwbtc, I noticed you posted the same thing on Betcoins forum, which is interesting because when I check your profile it says you registered just this month and still a Bronze 3. However, on this forum you have - Claimed to have played on Betcoin since 2013
- Said you were active within the Betcoin community
- Said you were Gold Status over 6 months ago
- Called Bullshit on another player for not wanting to share his own screen name
- Asked me directly what my screen name was
- Made over 100 posts that make you seem more like a shill than not - all for Betcoin
- Told several blatant lies to defend Betcoin then acted as if it never happened by ignoring any reference to it (Sound familiar "BetcoinJessica" ?
So whats up with posting on Betcoin from a brand new account? Here's some evidence, as usual, to back up my claims - starting back in Summer 2014... Really enjoy playing here and keep up the great work. I particularly like the sng's especially the Hyper Turbo Heads Up. There are always a few open and when I sit down the game is filled within 2 minutes.
I have been playing at Betcoin for awhile and I have seen them continue to improve and work very hard. I have also been fortunate to place in a wide variety of tournaments with big GTD's. I am still trying to win my seat into the million dollar GTD, but it has truly been a great experience that continues to get better. Really appreciate the opportunity to play here guys. Keep up the good work.
I have been playing on Betcoin for quite some time and have achieved Gold I status. I really appreciate and enjoy the VIP program and have seen it grow tremendously. I play at other websites too, but Betcoin is my main website because of the rewards, constant improvements and community feel. Also, you guys talk about odds straight up, but a Master level at Betcoin would nearly eliminate all house edge throughout the entire website in sports wagering, casino wagering and provide a substantial rakeback for poker play. I will achieve this and report my findings back. I am a winning player overall, but I also enjoy the fact that I am building a profile that also has value and they keep rewarding with more perks and bonuses.
I personally hate to see people waste time, but I guess the same could be said about me responding to you though I don't nearly spend as much time as you.
What is your goal with all of this? What is your player name on Betcoin?
Other people have posted about the same issue but you have chosen to ignore it.
I just checked their website Betcoin.ag and it shows over 300 people online. What people do you speak of?Yes, Betcoin is very safe, I have been playing here for two years and have seen people like you make these claims without a username or substantiation only to disappear. I have never had a problem with Betcoin and have played quite a bit. The support is superior and they continue to provide even better opportunities everyday for us players. They would never cheat you out of $4. This is ridiculously absurd. As for darkdays, I really don't read every post, they are too long and in the Betcoin community there is a lot more going on in there with staking, loans, sports talk, poker talk and more. I enjoy the time in there.
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Is the player they tried to give the jackpot to a real player?
Yes Acction is high stakes bum hunter thats been around for years. He is one of the guys I would think Betcoin stole the most from between October 30 and Dec 9th Notice the hand went down on Feb 8th, Betcoin posted the article on Feb 11th about the jackpot being hit, then changed the article title from "Bad Beat Jackpot" "Bad Beat Poker Hand" on Feb 12th. It seems like they had plenty of time to make the decision and payout 40 Bitcoins. THen as soon as they published the article they got immediate backlash. WeebleWobble: wow1 day 20 hours ago heads up at the highest available limit, didnt know you could win the bbj with only two people at the table. Actually I thought they'd canceled the bad beat jackpot. 6galileo, SickMetaGame, PantzCrabby, valjean, StareYouDown, snowondabluff like this Log in to post comments blingbling911: Thought heads up was DQ'ed1 day 19 hours ago 2. There must be a minimum of four or more players dealt in the hand and a rake must be collected in order to qualify for the BBJ. 4EyeWonBTC, valjean, StareYouDown, SHOWTIME like this Log in to post comments massusblack: 38,2541 day 18 hours ago WE ARE REALY STUPID 38,254m฿ IS THE THE AMOUNT OF THE BBJ OR WHAT IS IT  0 Log in to post comments SickMetaGame: We...1 day 18 hours ago Do it for the lulz - Betcoin Three hours later: Betcoin Andrew: Bad Beat Jackpot Requirements Not Met1 day 17 hours ago
The bad beat jackpot requirements were not met and therefore the bad beat jackpot remains at 21,602.97 and was not paid out. There was an error when it was first reported, however this has been pointed out and changed. Thank you and good luck to everyone. There was no error though, we know this because they posted the hand history themselves. The real error was when a group of people who are clueless about online poker decided to try and run an online poker site. They later claimed they never paid the jackpot out, which doesn't make any sense considering the hand was dealt 4 days earlier. I suspect the only reason they admitted that "There was an error when it was first reported" was because the player they paid didnt snap cash it out. 20 bitcoin is just a couple buyins for the guy. If he had cashed it out and told Betcoin to fuck off when they asked for it back, I suspect they would be handling this situation the same way they did when they accidentally over raked for a month and a half, or when they accidentally funded over half the current jackpot by accidentally stealing it from players for almost 2 years when there was no jackpot, or how they underpaid my (and probably everyone) rakeback for WPN mtts. By just pretending like nothing happened and counting on their shills and affiliates to make the incidents as easy to forget as possible. Luckily, he didn't cash it out, so they just took it back and claimed "Error when first reported, we caught the problem ourselves and never paid it out" These are my speculations on what really happened, I can't prove them. If you want to see what I can prove, check out this thread (work in progress): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322261.msg13507632#msg13507632 |
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Hmmmm.....Noobtc posts this comment here on bitcointalk.org within 10 minutes of ftwbtc posting his comment on Betcoin....HMMMMM In retrospect, don't slow play those Kings! __ACTl0NNNN is lucky SillySausage didn't have more on the table!
HMMMMMMM hmmmmmm Betcoin Jessica talking to himself: I just signed up at Betcoin and then saw this thread. After reading through it and the attacks to the poster. Are you an employee of Betcoin? How do I get reassigned to you?
I don't believe you can change your affiliate once you have one or get reassigned. There is a lot of trolling going on in here so who knows when Xiaoxiao will be back. |
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People have been upset over the 3 second warning until timeout.
I can assure you this is the least of any regulars worries at Betcoin. The fact that they wont return the rake they stole, for example, is much more serious. Perhaps if you could explain exactly how you are able draw the conclusion that the amount stolen from any player is so small that it doesn't matter then players would be less upset. Support doesn't seem to have an answer either, this is how they handled it with one of the highest volume players on Betcoin who signed up under your affiliate link. (emerald vip level mostly from poker) (read bottom to top)  |
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