Customer's accounts were not affected, so why make it public other than trying to place pressure on Dwolla. It's not coming across the way TH intended. By tomorrow afternoon, there will massive reports internet wide about another scandal with Bitcoin.
This is more of a Dwolla scandal than a bitcoin scandal. Dwolla is the business that appears to be acting negligently (or even fraudulently) and TradeHill (among others) is the primary victim. |
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i don't know about anyone else, but this is conjuring feelings of being GOXED all over again...........
That's the point I was trying to get across to Jered aka Tradehill. Customer's accounts were not affected, so why make it public other than trying to place pressure on Dwolla. It's not coming across the way TH intended. By tomorrow afternoon, there will massive reports internet wide about another scandal with Bitcoin. Bitcoin didn't need this and this wasn't thought out very well. In a way, the more I think about it, the more I get pissed. BCX This was the only way to get Dwolla's attention and sound the alarm to others who might get hurt. It actually illustrates how bitcoin is the superior currency - no chargebacks. It's not bitcoin's or TradeHill's fault if Dwolla is lame. I'm glad they exposed this now before the damage became worse. Again, this illustrates the superiority of bitcoin to other currencies - some people will lie, cheat and steal to get some. |
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Bullion dealers, jewelry stores, pawn shops and check cashing services would be ideal because they can handle larger exchanges and they already have the security measures in place. If you own one of these types of businesses here is a new profit center for you!
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Dwolla scandal update: Camp BX is not affected by this, and every dollar is accounted for. Hoping the same for other Bitcoin sites! Thank you, Keyur www.CampBX.com+1 for CampBX! Sucks that scandals reduce the bitcoin value, though. This actually illustrates the fact that bitcoin is a superior currency - people will lie, cheat and steal to get it. Dwolla has shown its' inferiority in this regard because it is reversible. |
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This is just another example of why bitcoin is a superior currency: no charge-backs and some people will lie, cheat and steal to get some of it. Dwolla has failed as a currency in the aspect that it is subject to charge-backs.
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Although the exchanges are competitors there should be a "board" of all exchanges which agrees to share info like this in emergency cases (like one person per exchange as "interexchange-contact").
(Like the red phones in the Bond movies)
Think this might be necessary for the sake of Bitcoin.
The better solution is to actively seek out and partake in decentralized exchanges by exchanging locally, and in person. Every user an exchanger. Use services like: http://www.btcnearme.com, http://www.tradebitcoin.com, http://www.ubitex.com, and http://www.bitcoinlocator.comThis might be partly true - but only for small amounts. I most certainly will not meet with someone in a cafe or MacDonalds (WiFi) carrying a suitcase full of money (not that this an issue at the moment but still...) The most volume will be exchanged on the big exchanges at least for the foreseeable future. So I am still pro red phone! As mentioned on a previous chat, bullion dealers and pawn shops would be ideal businesses to offer this service. Bitcoin exchanges work like gold - which is something they understand - and these types of business already have all the security measures in place. Pawn shops and bullion dealers are you listening? Here is a great opportunity for you! Check-cashing services might also be good candidates to offer bitcoin exchange services. Also, start building your networks of trusted trading partners within your community. |
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Although the exchanges are competitors there should be a "board" of all exchanges which agrees to share info like this in emergency cases (like one person per exchange as "interexchange-contact").
(Like the red phones in the Bond movies)
Think this might be necessary for the sake of Bitcoin.
The better solution is to actively seek out and partake in decentralized exchanges by exchanging locally, and in person. Every user an exchanger. Use services like: http://www.btcnearme.com, http://www.tradebitcoin.com, http://www.ubitex.com, and http://www.bitcoinlocator.comThis might be partly true - but only for small amounts. I most certainly will not meet with someone in a cafe or MacDonalds (WiFi) carrying a suitcase full of money (not that this an issue at the moment but still...) The most volume will be exchanged on the big exchanges at least for the foreseeable future. So I am still pro red phone! As mentioned on a previous chat, bullion dealers and pawn shops would be ideal businesses to offer this service. Bitcoin exchanges work like gold - which is something they understand - and these types of business already have all the security measures in place. Pawn shops and bullion dealers are you listening? Here is a great opportunity for you! Check-cashing services might also be good candidates to offer bitcoin exchange services. |
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Relevant comments regarding trading for products and services vs. exchanging for national currencies: (from http://economicsandliberty.wordpress.com/2011/06/07/the-coming-attack-on-bitcoin-and-how-to-survive-it/): " The safest way to acquire bitcoin is to let people know that you will accept it as payment for your products and services. Do not ever exchange it for national currencies. The point that people miss here is that national currencies are the very problem that freedom-lovers are trying to get away from. Instead, use bitcoin to trade with merchants and individuals who accept it as payment. Offer it as payment to those who are unaware of it and explain the benefits to them. This will help develop the market and create a solid economy outside of national currencies. After the initial attack, bitcoin will likely be one of the most powerful and revolutionary tools to bring about more freedom and liberty to humankind." |
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copying post from the Bitcoin show thread
hopefully have my facts straight:
tradehill have identified ~$37k of dwolla transfers that have been reversed after being credited, I think they managed to block ~$20k of that.
other exchanges unknown.
dwolla being cagey and changing terms of service on their website.
"reversed" by who and why? Dwolla or a hacker or a customer? "they" meaning who? dwolla is reversing transactions why are they doing that? Their business model does not allow for irreversible transactions - they are tied to the banks and are subject to "clawback" provisions of fraudulent transactions. It looks like cash and wire transfer are the most reliable types of transactions. The other problem is that Dwolla has been mis-representing themselves on this issue. There are likely strong legal claims that can be brought against dwolla by merchants and the exchanges who suffer losses. Also, of important note, it would be wise to pull your money out of dwolla as they might be subject to, not only legal claims, but a run on their bank account. If they do not have "dollar for dollar" backing of their accounts then you could be in for a big surprise. |
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copying post from the Bitcoin show thread
hopefully have my facts straight:
tradehill have identified ~$37k of dwolla transfers that have been reversed after being credited, I think they managed to block ~$20k of that.
other exchanges unknown.
dwolla being cagey and changing terms of service on their website.
"reversed" by who and why? Dwolla or a hacker or a customer? "they" meaning who? dwolla is reversing transactions why are they doing that? Their business model does not allow for irreversible transactions - they are tied to the banks and are subject to "clawback" provisions of fraudulent transactions. It looks like cash and wire transfer are the most reliable types of transactions. The other problem is that Dwolla has been mis-representing (perhaps unintentionally?) themselves on this issue. There are likely strong legal claims that can be brought against dwolla by merchants and the exchanges who suffer losses. |
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Although the exchanges are competitors there should be a "board" of all exchanges which agrees to share info like this in emergency cases (like one person per exchange as "interexchange-contact").
(Like the red phones in the Bond movies)
Think this might be necessary for the sake of Bitcoin.
The better solution is to actively seek out and partake in decentralized exchanges by exchanging locally, and in person. Every user an exchanger. Use services like: http://www.btcnearme.com, http://www.tradebitcoin.com, http://www.ubitex.com, and http://www.bitcoinlocator.comThis might be partly true - but only for small amounts. I most certainly will not meet with someone in a cafe or MacDonalds (WiFi) carrying a suitcase full of money (not that this an issue at the moment but still...) The most volume will be exchanged on the big exchanges at least for the foreseeable future. So I am still pro red phone! As mentioned on a previous chat, bullion dealers and pawn shops would be ideal businesses to offer this service. Bitcoin exchanges work like gold - which is something they understand - and these types of business already have all the security measures in place. Pawn shops and bullion dealers are you listening? Here is a great opportunity for you! |
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copying post from the Bitcoin show thread
hopefully have my facts straight:
tradehill have identified ~$37k of dwolla transfers that have been reversed after being credited, I think they managed to block ~$20k of that.
other exchanges unknown.
dwolla being cagey and changing terms of service on their website.
"reversed" by who and why? Dwolla or a hacker or a customer? "they" meaning who? dwolla is reversing transactions |
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Although the exchanges are competitors there should be a "board" of all exchanges which agrees to share info like this in emergency cases (like one person per exchange as "interexchange-contact").
(Like the red phones in the Bond movies)
Think this might be necessary for the sake of Bitcoin.
The better solution is to actively seek out and partake in decentralized exchanges by exchanging locally, and in person. Every user an exchanger. Use services like: http://www.btcnearme.com, http://www.tradebitcoin.com, http://www.ubitex.com, and http://www.bitcoinlocator.com |
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This, and if this is to complicated, just send some coins to another wallet through a mixer and if anyone asks, just say somebody you were selling something to gave you the mixer input address as there payment address.
Did you mean to say: "...and if this is too complicated, just send some coins to another wallet through a mixer and if anyone asks, just say somebody you were buying something from gave you the mixer input address as their payment address." ?? |
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Bruce and TradeHill:
Thanks for bringing us this important news!
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Great line from the intro: "as anonymous as you want them to be..." |
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Can the law do anything about Tradehill facilitating P2P transfers? Seems like a difficult thing to outlaw, as compared to outlawing exchange trades, and might be a good way to keep exchanges running if public market trades are banned.
We're taking a "better safe than sorry" approach. We've submitted the needed paperwork but want to be 100% sure we're in compliance with the law before we proceed. TradeHill and Mt Gox are the two biggest targets for opponents to Bitcoin and we both owe it to the community to be on our toes. I've been personally involved with Bitcoin for a while and want it to succeed for a variety of reasons. If greed motivates me to cut corners and risk damaging the community then I'm no longer the same person that started this company. Jered +1 We want bitcoin to be around long term and compliant exchanges are critical. Thanks Jered! |
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Received my product today. Excellent service and product!
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Savings are set aside for future use. Savings eventually have to be spent. You can't eat bitcoin. Bitcoin will be spent when needed.
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