beh ora che ci penso, è quello che fanno i servizi bitpay e walletbit. entrambi hanno un interfaccia dedicata proprio a questo scopo.
Si, però vista la natura decentralizzata dei bitcoin riuscire a fare una cosa simile senza terze parte coinvolte sarebbe l'ideale. Specialmente in un futuro in cui la diffusione dovesse essere maggiore. Al momento entrambi i servizi che hai citato gestiscono poche centinaia di negozi da cui penso arrivino poche decine di ordini al mese. Qual'ora dovessimo avere migliaia di negozi collegati con decine di transazioni alla settimana la quantità di denaro da movimentare diventerebbe imponente, e potrebbe portare ad un aumento dei costi di gestione. Senza contare che potremmo arrivare a quel punto senza avere una regolamentazione legislativa valida. Finchè si tratta di muovere 10-20.000€ al mese le banche non fanno grosse storie, ma se dovessero essere 200-300.000€ o anche più i vari gestori potrebbero incorrere in problemi simili a quelli già capitati in passato a mtgox e altri. Inoltre, per quanto quasi sempre gestiti da persone degne di fiducia, ho notato in molti servizi legati ai bitcoin una certa "approssimazione" nel gestire gli affari. Per dirne una per ben 2 volte bitinstant mi ha bloccato 100-150$ in un trasferimento tra mtgox e btc-e per una giornata senza rispondere alle mia mail se non dopo ripetuti solleciti e parecchie ore. Il problema era sempre che avevano finito i fondi depositati da btc-e. Ci ho perso qualche euro in entrambi i casi (stavo speculando sui cambi), non è molti per fortuna viste le cifre esigue che movimentavo. Ma se volessi muovere cifre più importanti (3-4.000$) probabilmente non mi fiderei... Ad ogni modo il protocollo ha in se tutti gli strumenti per potere gestire questo tipo di transazione controllata senza bisogno di appoggiarsi a terzi e secondo me quella sarebbe la direzione da seguire.
|
|
|
Notiziona davvero Altri 2 o 3 siti così e la diffusione sarà sempre più capillare
|
|
|
Ottima notizia. Chissà se è sul forum o se vuole parteciparvi
|
|
|
You forgot brick 'n mortar shops: for a shop that sell in bitcoin is a risk to accept a 0 confirmation transaction, and wait 30-45 minutes for 3-4 confirm can be too long for costumer. This execption was rasied by a friend that has a cell phone shop to which I propose the bitcoin as payment form. He sell objects that can arrive easily at 300-500$ of value and he can't risk a double spend attack. Does he accept credit cards? Does he wait 180 days before delivering goods? At least here in Italy, if you pay with a credit card in a shop you can't reverse the transaction: you sign the receipt and shop keeper check that the credit card is hold by the issuer checking a document of identity.
|
|
|
Parlando con un amico mi ha fatto notare che usare i bitcoin in un negozio fisico è rischioso per il negoziante. La transazione impiega fino a 10-15 minuti per essere confermata almeno 1 volta e volendo evitare double spending sarebbe meglio aspettare almeno 3-4 conferme (se non le 6 canoniche) ma questo porta l'attesa vicina all'ora. Mentre per transazioni via web o in cui ci sono di mezzo delle spedizioni la cosa è tranquillamente fattibile, così come lo è per acquisti importanti (un macchina, dei mobili ecc...) e non dovrebbe essere un problema per piccoli acquisti (chi farebbe tutto il trigo necessario per un double spending per 5-10€?) ci sono tutta una serie di casi in cui aspettare è impossibile e il rischio di duoble spending alto. Telefonia, PC o oreficeria sono acquisti da centinaia di € che dopo la decisione di acquisto impegnano pochissimo tempo per essere conclusi, così come una cena al ristorante può costare anche 100-200€ se si è in un po' di persone, ma nessuno vuole ovviamente aspettare alla cassa un ora dopo aver finito. L'idea potrebbe essere quella di utilizzare l'escrow con transazione multifirma. Si effettua un pagamento appena entrati nel negozio di una cifra che indicativamente copra le necessità di acquisto (se è più alta non è problema se è più bassa si può sempre integrare). Il trasferimento verrà fatto con il vincolo di 2 firme per lo sblocco:1 da parte del venditore e 1 da parte dell'acquirente. Il trasferimento nel frattempo viene registrato sulla rete e inizierà ad essere confermato Quando si arriva al momento di pagare entrambi metteranno la firma di conferma e la transazione avverrà. Se sono stati versati troppi BTC verrà dato il resto, se ne sono stati messi pochi si integrerà la differenza con il rischio di avere un double spending molto ridotto. Qui c'è una rapida spiegazione di come farlo ad esempio con blockchain: https://blockchain.info/wallet/escrowIl sistema è lungi da essere perfetto ma permette di ridurre i rischi di essere frodati secondo me
|
|
|
So essentially the only people who are really hindered by confirmations are merchants who sell high value transactions which are delivered digitally and are irreversible. Despite the gnashing of teeth the reality is almost no commerce falls into the category except maybe exchanges.
You forgot brick 'n mortar shops: for a shop that sell in bitcoin is a risk to accept a 0 confirmation transaction, and wait 30-45 minutes for 3-4 confirm can be too long for costumer. This execption was rasied by a friend that has a cell phone shop to which I propose the bitcoin as payment form. He sell objects that can arrive easily at 300-500$ of value and he can't risk a double spend attack. But even a restaurant/pub can risk (a dinner for 4 can easily be over 100$). The ideal way will be IMHO to use an escrow based system: when you enter in the shop you transfer the money you think to spend to the address so it start to be confirmed, but transaction can be fixed only after you confirm the receipt of the goods (just before you leave). Is possible to implement that kind of escrow without rely on a third part. There is an example here: https://blockchain.info/wallet/escrowIn the example Bob is both the shop keeper and the third part , Alice the customer.
|
|
|
Ottimo venditore: rapidissimo
|
|
|
have you contacted paypal? Curious to know if they will let you charge back.
I've done the chargeback with paypal: at the moment is converted in Claim. I'm waiting a reply by 24 oct. get response? PP has accepted the claim and refunded all the $. It was a long process (I've got my money back at beginning of November), but at least it has worked Did you tell them it was a bitcoin trade? I don't but the scammer do, so yes they know is for bitcoin what did you say it was I stay totally neutral: "good not delivered and money not refunded", but the scammer reply with a "I send him some bitcoin he don't want to pay me". I reply that I don't have received anything and they pay me back.
|
|
|
New feature on-line!
Tip support for zero interest loans.
Now borrowers can TIP/add any amount of BTC when paying a zero interest loan.
Nice feature
|
|
|
i think for a merchant (ie casascius) it should be imperative to provide detaild imagery of the product he sells while adhering to a certain consistency (size of the coin, lighting etc etc) doing so.
I agree: for physical coins have a detailed sheet with all the data will reduce the risk of frauds
|
|
|
have you contacted paypal? Curious to know if they will let you charge back.
I've done the chargeback with paypal: at the moment is converted in Claim. I'm waiting a reply by 24 oct. get response? PP has accepted the claim and refunded all the $. It was a long process (I've got my money back at beginning of November), but at least it has worked Did you tell them it was a bitcoin trade? I don't but the scammer do, so yes they know is for bitcoin
|
|
|
have you contacted paypal? Curious to know if they will let you charge back.
I've done the chargeback with paypal: at the moment is converted in Claim. I'm waiting a reply by 24 oct. get response? PP has accepted the claim and refunded all the $. It was a long process (I've got my money back at beginning of November), but at least it has worked
|
|
|
Ciao, ho parlato con i ragazzi di bitinstant di postepay e paiono interessati a valutare l'integrazione nella loro piattaforma. La cosa interessante è che la settimana prossima uno dei CEO è in Italia (Roma e Firenze) e vorrebbe vedere come funziona. Per me è un po' scomodo spostarmi fino a Firenze o Roma, in settimana poi è impossibile per motivi di lavoro. Qualcuno nella zona sarebbe disponibile ad incontrarli per fargli vedere come funziona la postepay e Bancoposta? L'ideale sarebbe integrare i servizi di TheRock con quelli di bitinstant (compravendita praticamente immediata di bitcoin e trasferimento da/verso i principali exchange internazionali in pochi minuti). Fatemi sapere che vi metto in contatto
|
|
|
Does this look like possibly the most obvious scam on BTCJam ever? https://btcjam.com/listings/377#1 If you are getting gold that cheap its because its stolen #2 the Borrower is the only person who has rated most of his investors (SHELL ACCOUNTS???) #3 2.2% for such a large principal seems like just the right amount to pull in investors and low enough so that if he IS partially funding his loan with his own shell accounts, he wont be losing more than he can potentially steal from unwitting investors. I don't know that guy, and I don't know from where he comes, but here in Italy if you want to sell "used" gold in specialized shops they pay you 38-40€/gr, and spot price is 43.5€ so is possible that that guy pay gold bars made from that used gold 44€/gr. Point #2 is fishy indeed: take in account that with less than 4 point is not possible to rate a user too
|
|
|
There is any news on a system to obtain back some of the money from the scammer, or at least have a part of their debt repayed?
|
|
|
[PREDICTION] Bitcoin will go over $30 in the next 12 months... Are you ready? Let the explosion begin! over $30 is a very high target. But with ASIC, halving of rewards and more shops accepting BTC I can imagine gain similar to the one of this year, that will put bitcoins in the low $20.
|
|
|
......
Even with bitboyen's estimate of 270TH/s giving a difficulty of ~38M, very few people are going to invest in new ASICs if the price drops down to $5 without massive hardware price drops. It will be interesting to see what the mining factor 100 (or maybe USD/24hr@100GH/s now) will be once things stabilize in the spring.
If bitboyben's calculations are correct, D=38 million would be due to already purchased ASICs - unless the exchange rate drops very low they will be running constantly to get a return on their investment sooner. No moer ASICs need be purchased. If the rate does drop significantly (like your US$5/BTC suggestion) D will only drop slowly - people paying more electricity will stop mining first. Due to nature of ASIC people that mine with them will not stop unless they lose lot of money in doing that (2 or 3BTC of power for every BTC mined IMHO): no way to resell them plus the fact that probably new generation of even faster or less power hungry ASIC can be presented in any future so in case of price drop keep the ASIC offline it's a direct loss of hundreds of $, it's less dangerous lost some money in mining and keep the bitcoin hoping that in future price will rise again.
|
|
|
There's been a few times I've sent physical bitcoins to Miami, FL with the understanding that I'm sending to a company that forwards shipments around the world.
6910 NW 50th St Miami FL 33166
7339 NW 54th St Miami FL 33166
Google them, they both lead to companies that seem to offer this service.
I doubt they accept bitcoins, if that's part of the question.
There were a couple of company that do that for Italy (and eventually for Europe) 'till some months ago in Miami near that addresses, but now are closed due to legal problems. The main problem is custom duty and VAT for what I can remember
|
|
|
and having that happening near Christmas will not helps to.
You are suspecting that people will be trading spending their coins or cashing out to pay for gifts? Yes, I think both of them Both December 2010 and 2011 rose between the beginning of the month and Christmas. Then exploded for the last week.
I you take the price from mid November in 2010 price dropped of 20-30% in the weeks before Christmas, then rose to a +5% in the last week. In 2011 price actually doubled in the same period, but we came from a long dropping period after the big jump of June (price at 31 Dec are still less than half of the price at 1st of sept). This year we came from a 2-3 months stability period, at least in BTC terms (price from sept had a variation in a 25% range, in 2011 was in the 80% of and in 2010 was over 450%).
|
|
|
|