briehost, while those are certainly cool ideas, they are not realistic for getting Bitcoin implemented in the modern day economy.
(Also, bio-metric scanning would take away from the valuable privacy of Bitcoin.)

Unfortunately, cost and adoption is the limit on security measures.

To do what you are suggesting would require terminal manufactures to start making these units, and distribute them. You are talking about a huge scaling.
It will not make sense for a terminal manufacturer to do this for Bitcoin with such low adoption; if anything, it would first need to be adopted by the credit card companies, then Bitcoin.

Right now, terminals cost $100-$400 wholesale. A high tech solution like you propose would cost start at $800 wholesale, huuuuge price difference and merchant's would not want to change out all their terminals, just for Bitcoin. (Avg. merchant has 3 terminals for different lanes.)

Agreed, security ain't what it should be. But right now the goal is mass adoption of Bitcoin, not to rewrite the security protocols of digital transactions.

You could, it's just not necessary and just invites problems.

Private key would not be exposed with encrypted debit chip, as it is not with current chipped debit cards.

So instead you want a private company like Mt. Gox to hold your hand if anything bad happens?

What happened to self responsibility.




Making a Mt. Gox like company in charge of chargebacks and disputes is an accident waiting to happen.
You are basically putting that private company at huge risk of having funds seized or stolen.
Then you want to rely on them for chargebacks??? That's madness. You are giving a private company, without any oversight, the ability to manipulate transactions. They can steal merchant's and consumer's money using the chargeback model. It's ridiculous.

Just dont use Bitcoin Credit Card for risky transactions. Use it when buying a coffee. Use it when buying groceries. Use it when buying furniture. Don't use it to order things online or over the phone. That simple.

Let the dream killing begin!

I fail to see your point.

Why is the technology used for debit transaction using encrypted PINs, NOT good enough for Bitcoin?

It's been used on a scale at least 1,000 X larger than Bitcoin, and has succeeded. Why reinvent the wheel?

A network is only going to be as secure as the users using it.




No, you aren't. Just because you were covered on your theft, it is not the rule.

"A major factor in consumer protection is the card company’s liability policies. Federal law limits consumer liability for unauthorized debit payments to $50, if the consumer reports the fraud within two business days (the cap goes up to $500 if the report is not timely [2 days!]). This means that the consumer has to pay $50-500 dollars before the card company will cover the rest. Major card companies like Visa and MasterCard have “zero liability” for unauthorized transactions, meaning that if the consumer meets the requirements, they don’t have to pay anything and are reimbursed.

However, this “zero liability” only applies to signed transactions. Every company seems to have their own policy when it comes to PIN-based transactions. MasterCard does not extend zero liability protection to PIN purchases, while other financial institutions do. For this reason, it’s important to check the policy on your debit account. Check the back of your card to find out which networks handle your transactions (ex: the Star network), and then call your bank to find out if you qualify for more than just basic federal protections."

Read this: http://banking.about.com/od/checkingaccounts/a/stolendebitcard.htm



Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, me thinks.

The "insurance" you speak of does not exist.

The only thing credit card companies and banks offer is chargeback protection.

It can only be used in the event of:

1. Straight card theft. But not when PIN number is used! Banks will NEVER NOT ALWAYS give you money back when your correct PIN is used.
2. Non-receipt of goods. For mail orders, delivery of goods.
3. Broken or non-working items. If you buy something and it stops working. Time limit on this.
b. Overcharging

...And all this does is start the chargeback process. The merchant is given the opportunity to write a letter of explanation and provide documentation of their side.

If what you are purchasing could be better covered by a credit card for the above three things, by all means, use a credit card. For everything else, There's Bitcoin Credit Card




That said, Bitcoin credit card would not be ideal for buying goods on the internet or over the phone (duh, just do it given the tools already available), or any kind of purchase where you do not receive the goods or services right away.


Exactly!
No reason to go bananas and expect a crazy amount of security in regards to the Bitcoin Credit Card, just put as much on it as you want.

Where is the risk? If you use your regular debit card at a terminal location, like a gas pump, in which a thief has installed a skimmer and a videocamera to record your PIN number, you will not get your money back.

You are led to believe in a safety net that is not there.

@DannyHamilton


No, the whole idea of Bitcoin is take away the middleman (the banks!) from the equation.

No banks are needed for my proposal.



Why create a centralized system for a fundamentally decentralized system. It makes no sense.



What you propose is possible, but it involves a private company basically acting as an exchange like Mt. Gox, but with the ability to communicate with terminals and POS systems and new debit cards. You are then putting all the risk with this one private company.

Hacker wipes them out, you're done. Government intervenes, you're done.

I do not want to use a credit card in a Mt. Gox-y sort of way. THAT is too risky!

Really? Like seriously?

Then you might as well never use a debit or credit card terminal ever again. Let me know how that works out

Sorry but this is the real world. If you are that paranoid just stick to cash


How would one be able to tell you're dealing with an actual, non-nefarious terminal?
If you go to a legit store, you will be dealing with a legit terminal.

If a business uses anything compromised like what you are describing, the FBI and or Secret Service gets involved. (Yes, Secret Service investigates credit card fraud).
Like in this case: http://www.khq.com/story/21757307/secret-service-investigates-skimming-case-at-north-spokane-atm-crime-tracker-kalae-chock-has-tips-to-protect-your-account

Let's hear some ideas bro.

ROI never existed with these things bro.

Patience, my son.

That's what the chip debit card is for.

Once you insert your card in the terminal, the terminal prompts the customer for their PIN number. The customer inserts their PIN number into the terminal. Since all terminals are PCI compliant nowadays, the inputted PIN is encrypted and cannot be recorded by the merchant or anyone else. This is all done now with Canadian and European debit cards, this is not just theory.

To break it down, when the customer enters in the PIN number via the terminal, this "unlocks" the Bitcoin address private key to proceed with the transaction. The transaction amount displays on the terminal screen, and the customer presses OK if it is correct. Simple.

I worked for many years in the credit card processing industry, so I know about these things. To be honest, I'm surprised this hasn't already been done. If people want to join together to do this, let's go for it

@BitAddict and DannyHamilton:


True, I was thinking about this last night and the best solution would seem to be built in PIN like the debit cards used in Europe and Canada.
"Chip debit cards encrypt all information stored on them, increasing your safety when completing a transaction."

This will prevent merchant from having ALL your info just on the magstripe.

See pic below:




Again, no need for a central bank

This is pretty simple.


Bitcoin credit card's mag stripe is encoded with your Bitcoin address.


Each merchant (brick and mortar store) has a pre-configured terminal ready to accept Bitcoin along with credit and debit cards.

Merchant rings you up on their POS System (point of sale system) with the Bitcoin enabled software, that than processes the mag stripe Bitcoin address, ringing up your scanned items.

Amount shows on the terminal for your approval (much like a debit transaction). You press Yes (green) to accept, or Cancel (red) to decline.
Perhaps a pin code could be added somehow, this would be very hard to implement universally though, and I don't think it would be feasible, at least not at first.

Customer hits OK and transaction goes through, debiting their Bitcoin address.

Receipt prints out and shows available balance in BTC and USD.

---


So, right now three things are missing:

1. The physical Bitcoin card, featuring encoded BTC address on the magstripe. (Easily achieved with common Magstripe encorder, $200-250). For the MacGuyver types, you can even overwrite the magstripes of existing credit cards or even drivers licenses.

2. Software to convert the read mag stripe BTC addresses to work with existing or new POS software, which can interact with the BTC network. This is for the merchant side of the transaction.


A special build for the terminal would have to be written. Actually, a build would have to be made for every single model of terminal that would want to be used.
By focusing on the ten most popular terminals, this can be achieved without being insurmountable. Companies like TSYS specialize in writing code for terminals and regularly update existing builds.


This is a credit card terminal.

When you get to checkout the cashier asks you how you are going to pay. Right now they ask, "Cash, credit or debit?"

Tomorrow it will be: "Cash, credit, debit, or Bitcoin?"




Technically, no this is not a credit card since it does not extend credit, more a debit card if anything. It's really a representation of your BTC address in a mag stripe form, that can be carrier around and easily used for transactions the same way a credit card can be used.

Just throw in the word "Twitter" or "Cloud" and you should be OK

Great website, awesome idea.... but where's the profit??

You have processed $46,000.

If you charged even, 2%, that would be only $920 in gross.

My assumptions:
It says you've had 6K hits since April, not bad, but assuming you got you majority of your profits in the last month or two, it's only making $400 in gross a month.

That's $4,800 a year gross.


And that's not accounting for your the cost to run the site and any fees the third parties charge for bill payment services to you.

And also, I noted on your site you are advertising 0% fees (up to $9,000). So the $46,000 you have processed so far has only been for 0%?



Bottom line: How much profit did the website generate last month?

I have been extremely surprised at the lack of movement in the price of Bitcoin for the last 1-2 months... I don't really think the US govt shutdown is really going to drive the price up at this point.


If the stock market really has a conniption tomorrow BECAUSE of the shutdown, then it may cause a small increase in BTC.

Man, if you need new clothes that bad just go to Goodwill.

You know people on here have had 10x rougher situation then what you are describing? There are plenty of scholarships esp. for a state school like ASU.






And no, the weed thing doesn't help. I think everyone on here has seen "school money" turn into the "weed slush fund" money, faster then you can pull a gravity bong.




This ain't the Shark Tank bro, man up.