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81  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: The madness of gambling addicts. on: April 30, 2024, 09:15:23 PM
some say that freedom from desires is the path to illumination so I don't know, maybe you're right

obsessive and irrational thoughts are never good
we can't escape our minds but we can learn how to deal with them...

what do you think are the biggest challenges gamblers face?

Well, I am a person who always seeks to have the best possible to do anything, in gambling too, for example when I am going to be in a casino and play any game I always try to see the possibilities, that's why I don't worry much If I have 20usd to spend the money and that's it, I win, I lose, I leave the casino and then another day I have another gaming session, but what I think produces addiction in a person is anxiety, anxiety is something that does not allow people to sleep well, it keeps the person stressed and it keeps them there in a bad way, that is what I think can be a problem, and in this way it can be the beginning of a possible addiction, that is what a person should take care of a lot of player.


this reminds me of a small story on "reminiscences of a stock operator"
a guy tells the main character that he can't sleep because of an investment
the main character says: "you're overinvested, sell until sleeping point"

lesson in there.
82  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Do you gamble because you don't have sufficient money? on: April 30, 2024, 09:03:05 PM
Indeed, for those who are not rich but the goal is to have fun, of course they also want victory to be obtained because that's what they want, it's quite strange if there are people who gamble but don't want victory to happen with the gambling that is done. It's true that even though they have enough money, they certainly want a lot from what they have, including money, after all, even though they are rich people, it doesn't mean they don't need money, their expenses and income must be greater than their income, that's what drives them to gamble and want to get a big win at gambling, especially for those who have unstable finances.
Indeed, with them having money, it does not mean that it can prevent them from being addicted to gambling, of course the opportunity to become addicted to gambling is there, especially if they themselves cannot control themselves properly. The main thing is that they do gambling because they really want to win because that's what all gamblers want.

It's right to know that most rich gamblers have a bigger expenses on their end, which makes them to go for gambling. However, most people are not organized enough to handle the disputes gambling could cause to a rich person. Addiction is a gambling obstacle for everyone who don't look into how they gamble, both rich and poor. It's certainly truth that some low income players engage in gambling for the funds. Yet, the goal for gambling shouldn't be anything like that, it's more stressful for a player to only focus on making money. If rich players can take loan for gambling, that means gambling behavior is similar for all gamblers. Both the rich and poor also take loans for gambling.

Looking into gambling as a place to earn is not the right thought. Players need money to gamble not just time. A person with little funds on him would focus on other reliable means of making a living. We all need to win, that's certain, a player must win. But not often. Gambling with the last card or on low income, puts lots of pressure on the player. He, may lose them all, what next would he do other than taking loans. Those who gamble because they have insufficient funds are risking their financial status. The rich have no such reason because they've got enough money to wager. But a person who is not sure of his moves after losing all that money in gambling will have himself to blame. The stress, discomfort, and anxiety that comes with losing all we've got in gambling will fall on the player.

in the end of the day gambling will hook some people and not others
even among rich people there are different levels of risk aversion
some rich people are not interested in risking money with the possibility of losing, neither have interest in money games
to each their own, I guess. nothing wrong with that.
83  Local / Brasil / Re: você sabe quanto dos gastos públicos no Brasil vem de impostos? on: April 30, 2024, 08:52:43 PM
Interessante. Agora pergunta para o Cloude quem realmente paga esses impostos. Veja se ele responde se quem paga esses impostos não é a classe média. Essa mesma classe que tanto idolatra os bilionários e milionários, que proporcionalmente pagam menos impostos do que eles. E por qual motivo essa mesma classe média nada faz. Será que um dia essa "classe media" acredita que chegará ao "paraíso" dos bilionários e milionários ? Vamos ver as respostas do Cloude ( nominho esquisito  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy).

pergunta lá:
https://claude.ai/

isso me lembra outra conversa que tive com nosso velho amigo GPTézio esses dias, procurei pra postar aqui mas não achei
queria saber a quantidade de pessoas em cada classe e os valores que definem as classes A até E, obviamente a classe média paga mais bruto por duas razões:
1- É muito mais numerosa
2- não tem acesso e talvez nem interesse de procurar paraísos fiscais para pagar menos imposto como os super ricos.

Isso me lembra um pouco a conversa que o @levelsio puxou no twitter hoje:
https://twitter.com/levelsio/status/1784943280171467260

Na minha opinião qualquer discussão que caminha pra aumentar carga tributária no Brasil é nonsense completo, precisamos de reponsabilidade fiscal e corte de gastos públicos.
3 tri é muito dinheiro já.



@sabotag3x
me parece que são questões diferentes
minha pergunta ia pro lugar de quanto do financiamento do governo vem de impostos e quanto vem de emissão de dívida.

Parte dos impostos são usados para pagar os títulos antigos que estão vencendo, não?
Aí a máquina continua viva rodando ponzi sobre ponzi.

@bitmover talvez saiba um pouco mais sobre o assunto e possa somar aqui.
84  Local / Brasil / você sabe quanto dos gastos públicos no Brasil vem de impostos? on: April 30, 2024, 08:06:16 PM
tive algumas conversas bem interessantes com o Claude hoje, LLM da anthropic, tenho gostado mais dele que do ChatGPT

uma delas girou em torno desse tema do título e pode interessar à outras pessoas aqui:
já pensou quanto dos gastos do governo Brasileiro vem de impostos e quanto vem de emissão de dívida?

se liga:

Quote from: ClaudinhoLLM
eu: Qual o gasto total do governo brasileiro por ano e quanto desse gasto vem dos impostos? Quanto vem de emissao de divida?

ClaudinhoLLM:
Infelizmente não tenho dados atualizados após agosto de 2023 sobre os gastos totais do governo brasileiro por ano e a composição das fontes de receita (impostos e emissão de dívida). No entanto, com base em informações de anos anteriores, posso fornecer alguns números aproximados:

Em 2022, o gasto total do governo federal brasileiro foi estimado em cerca de R$ 4,7 trilhões.

Desse total:
- Aproximadamente 68% ou R$ 3,2 trilhões vieram da arrecadação de impostos federais.
- O restante, cerca de 32% ou R$ 1,5 trilhão, foi obtido por meio da emissão de nova dívida pública.

É importante notar que esses valores são estimativas e podem ter variado devido aos impactos econômicos após agosto de 2023, sobre os quais não tenho dados precisos.

A arrecadação de impostos é historicamente a principal fonte de receitas para o governo brasileiro, seguida pela emissão de títulos da dívida pública para financiar o déficit orçamentário remanescente.

não chequei os dados mas a parte de arrecadação de impostos bate próximo do impostômetro (3.059 tri em 2023)
provavelmente dá para confirmar os dados de dívida pública no tesouro transparente, será que daria para maquiar esses dados? emissão de dívida, expansão do M2, etc... ?

85  Local / Português (Portuguese) / Re: Vocês aumentariam o próprio salário se pudessem? on: April 29, 2024, 05:17:17 PM
sobre a pergunta do OP

é muito diferente pensar em aumentar seu salário como uma canetada, como um político, que suga do trabalho dos outros para pagar a si mesmo e não precisa pagar imposto nenhum (Paredão discorda mas eu concordo com o Rothbard nesse sentido)

do que aumentar seu salário como empreendedor ou autonômo em que você teria que: vender mais, atender mais pessoas, melhorar suas margens, diminuir custos, etc etc etc...
86  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Rich or poor gambler, who should risk more? on: April 29, 2024, 04:15:46 PM

And for poor people who do gambling, the main goal is of course profit, where they want the money to multiply, but that can actually make them frustrated if defeat occurs, by wanting to get a win but we cannot accept defeat it is the same as they let themselves get into trouble intentionally. Poor people definitely do gambling because they want to improve their financial situation, but gambling will not always go well, and can help them in their financial problems.

Ordinarily, a rich gambler have more resources to spend and risk into the gambling games than the poor gamblers but does not imply that they must take more risk, because everything depends on the habit or character of the individual involved. Some poor people are great risk takers and can stake all their earnings in to gambling and when such people lose their money, they are greatly affected by their loses resulting into psychological trauma and depression in some cases.

Some rich people also take risks of injecting some huge amount of money into gambling games but I see many of them taking calculated risks instead. In the sense that when they lose, it probably only affects the profit they had injected into the gambling but not their entire income or worth. They have more options and opportunities to recover faster than the poor people from any lost. So, whether poor or rich is basically an individual decision, but while a poor man will greatly suffer from the lost, the rich might not necessarily feel the same way.

No matter how rich a person is, he or she is just as worried as a poor gambler when he or she loses money that he or she was not prepared to lose. Losing in gambling does not spare anyone, but only you decide how much money you are willing to lose without negatively affecting your financial condition. We have heard more than one story of poor gamblers winning huge sums of money and more than one story of rich gamblers losing entire fortunes. So it all depends on ourselves and our risk management.   

everyone is worried
the difference with someone that has money is that they probably have better awareness of the risk they're putting themselves in when they gamble or when they engage in some financial decision with their money...

in theory rich people will be better capital allocators than poor people

but well, this is just the theory.
87  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Have you won a bet with your last cash? on: April 29, 2024, 04:05:41 PM
Luck is not something that comes all the time and that's what makes it special when it comes to you while you are gambling, some people cheat when they gamble and they said is luck which are all lies but inside them they already know that it want luck but cheating.
However I was lucky to win a bet with my last stake some days ago and I am happy for that, that's why I have to bring it here let's discuss about it, whether you have also win some amount of money with your last stake. I went to a betting shop around my locality then I bet with $10 and lose all of them so I was holding  up to $1 separately for transporting my self back to my residence, but funny how I staked with my transport money and won.
Although, I had more money on  my account that I can use for transporting my self back to my house if incase I lost the physical cash, that was why I wasn't afraid to stake with it.

Doesn't that style seem dangerous, he is very risky for me. Although I have never experienced anything like that because when I gamble at the casino, the amount I put in is just that.

when I run out or lose, I stop, because what others say is right that we should limit the amount of money we gamble. Because in this way we only show being a responsible gambler.

it's interesting to observe how risk profiles will vary from person to person and how risk assessment and appetite doesn't translate 100% from one area to another
a person could be totally ok with taking financial risk but really averse to physical risk (like walking somewhere high) or sexual risk (like being more diligent on who they have relations and how often they use preservatives...)
88  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Rich or poor gambler, who should risk more? on: April 26, 2024, 07:23:24 PM
As first being rich or poor doesn't mean one should gamble responsibly, though is true that for to one to win big in gambling one will need to take some certain risks. But we should mind how we take those risk, like avoid going all in at once. Some one who's wealthy and financially stable, will definitely have alot of money to spare in gambling like some good amount of money he could risk without having any fear of losing that money .

While for someone that's not financially stable (like poor), having a spare money to gamble can be pretty hard because at first his first aim would be on how to fed himself and take care of some certain expenses. so if such individual go around taking all kind of risk with his hard earn funds in order to make some big wins , there's a chances that he may endup getting himself poorer (rekt)

So as a poor or rich , any categories at all , we should mind the way we take risk. Because there's some risk a rich man will  take that would land him in a state of being broke or poor. So we should always have good principles towards our gambling so that it won't endup affecting of normal lives activities.


Yeah, well, in theory rich or poor can end up poorer anyway.

They can both go "all in" and lose it all.

There is no difference in that, but i think rich people do not need to risk money because they are already rich

Poor people see it as a window to being rich.

have you heard of the "moonshot generation"? some teenagers nowadays prefer to gamble their way into a higher level of wealth instead of studying and going to college or opening a businnes, simply because it's a more exciting way and to be honest probably not a bad idea...
crazy new trends...
89  Local / Português (Portuguese) / Re: NO MORE BAD NEWS: MEGA TÓPICO DE NOTÍCIAS BOAS EM CRIPTO on: April 26, 2024, 06:27:57 PM
opa, parece promissor. gostei

vou começar então com essa:

https://x.com/YuurinB/status/1780199608506781822

Rede Ronin está crescendo no Kenya e pessoas usam RON para trocas do dia a dia.
Aqui temos uma compra de uma galinha (sim, você não leu errado) com Ronin.

Gosto de ver essas coisas acontecendo, mostra um pouco crypto fora da tela e com impacto no mundo real.
90  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Do you gamble because you don't have sufficient money? on: April 26, 2024, 06:19:39 PM
The gambling site help the poor gamblers to become the rich person,but the money making in the gambling site is not easy one.The gamblers who get a chance to win a jackpot can able to use the jackpot money to do the business in the real life.Because the business need the big capital,So the gamblers who mark jackpot from the gambling site was the luckiest person.This was also sometimes the reason for the new poor gamblers to make the money.The money for the poor gamblers are more important compared to the money to the rich gamblers.The gamblers with enough money consider themselves gambling as the risk free game.
What?!
Help the poor to become rich?
No, gambling sites ain't charity. They will not just give out free money to anyone.
What are you saying? Poor gamblers are more important that rich gamblers? No. It doesn't work like that. Sure, the gamblers with the highest amount in their wallet have the best chance to receive the RTP because of the capital they own.
Still, I would not consider them as lucky ones just because they have the money. It's about the timing, the coincidence, or what they call luck nowadays. But I won't be too optimistic that those rich people will gain a different treatment, it's all the same but it's on us on how disciplined we will be in either losing while betting and winning.



in the end of the day if we try to check the balance te gambling websites are probably hurting the poor more than helping them
since most won't be able to manage risk and bankroll and will think way more in terms of absolutes than percentages

sad but not so unexpected.
91  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: The madness of gambling addicts. on: April 26, 2024, 06:07:54 PM
Gambling addiction is one thing that one battles with throughout his life.It is a problem that you really need to deal with and it will not to wreck your life, else,it is the bissetting sin that one finds it difficult to avoid.
The first time I knew about gambling,I didn't know it has side effects,but when I get to know about the side effects,which is addiction,I had already gotten addicted,and at that stage,I was feeling sorry for myself because I know how strong it has held me.It was like a bondage that I keep myself in,but thanks to this forum,their advice gave me strength to be able to stay without gambling.

I think that the gambler struggles not with gambling, but with his desires, which sometimes become too obsessive, and sometimes irrational. This kind of struggle is quite normal, because even if you do not gamble you will have other hobbies that as well as gambling can lead to problems if you stop controlling them. We are struggling with ourselves all our lives and there is no escape from it, this is human psychology.

some say that freedom from desires is the path to illumination so I don't know, maybe you're right

obsessive and irrational thoughts are never good
we can't escape our minds but we can learn how to deal with them...

what do you think are the biggest challenges gamblers face?
92  Local / Brasil / Re: Elon Musk acusa Alexandre de Moraes de censurar brasileiros on: April 26, 2024, 05:57:19 PM

E paredão, tu não falou sobre a escravidão. É anti-ético ao escravo que foi capturado se rebelar contra a ordem?

Mas em qual pais, atualmente, ainda existe a escravidão, propriamente dita ? Que eu saiba nenhum. Existe sim países que pagam uma miséria de salário mínimo para os trabalhadores. A chamada "escravidão remunerada". Fora isso, poderia me dar mais exemplos ? Esqueci também de falar que existe também um negócio chamado: "ditadura financeira". Já ouvistes a respeito ?

nao importa o momento. Importa apenas as premissas. Tu disse que regras precisam ser seguidas e que isso é a base do funcionamento da sociedade. Dessa forma, todas as negociações entre escravados ou entre  escravos e outros player seriam não étivos da perspectiva dos status quo.
Ou seja, todos aqueles contra escravidão, seriam contra o sistrms

nessa horas, pra tristeza do Paredao, me lembro da Rand quando ela fala sobre moralidade no momento em que John Galt é capturado, pelo que me lembro ela desenvolve a ideia de que o único caminho moralmente correto a ser seguido naquele caso era o de mentir, ludibriar e jogar o jogo no mesmo terreno que seus próprios captores.

Algum pensador já falou sobre o fato de que se as regras leis estão erradas o local de uma pessoa ética e correta seria na prisão, mas agora não me lembro bem quem...
93  Local / Português (Portuguese) / Re: Bitcoin Runes - o inimigo agora é outro on: April 25, 2024, 03:48:00 PM
a ethereum tem tecnologia pra permitir isso, o btc ainda não (não dá pra dizer que a lightining vingou) e talvez nem terá... veremos, pq em termos de ciclo ele está repetindo um pouco o que aconteceu na eth no passado (plataformas defi, nfts e memes começando a surgir)

Mas o Bitcoin não foi para ter essas outras tecnologias.

Eu não sou contra as mesmas, apenas não acho que tenha de ter tudo o que os outros tem. Se dissessem que o ETH está perto de ultrapassar o BTC, eu até poderia entender a busca desses extras. Mas não é o caso, não consigo perceber a vantagem. Só para fizer que também é possível?

concordo, eu sou do time que acha a narrativa de colocar nfts no btc meio forçada, mas ao mesmo tempo acho incrível.



Isso é uma mania que vai passar (ou o dinheiro acabar), ou então a comunidade irá impedir isso de acontecer. As ultimas manias não duraram mais do que alguns dias...

Tem bloco ai sendo minerado com mais de 27 BTC de premio. Certamente não será o novo normal.

dias? boa sorte com essa previsão
a bull run de nfts na ethereum durou meses
vários meses de taxas altíssimas

Previsão confirmada.

Taxas voltaram a 40 satvB em 3 dias  Cheesy

 Cheesy Cheesy

Voce fez apostas em algum lado? Tinha ganho uma boa grande, ao ter acertado na previsão.  Roll Eyes

Por acaso, esperava demorar mais tempo a descer, mas também acreditaria que não iria durar muito.


taí uma boa pergunta para ter em mercados de predição...
então esse pico foi apenas pelo bloco do halving mesmo, só daqui a 4 anos novamente
segue o jogo, ainda assim 40-60 satvByte não é baixo, às vezes fica menor que 10.
94  Economy / Gambling / Re: Duelbits.com | Casino & Sportsbook | VIP | Instant withdrawals!|ARGENTINA & AVFC on: April 25, 2024, 03:03:32 PM
It could be that people are lazy to read the multi-page ToS and sometimes asking support will provide a link to the ToS as well.

If customers ask support, they will definitely be answered whether this is a problem or just asking about other info.
Are you sure if it affects the business and becomes a problem? What is the basis of the problem when customers ask support?
I think you misunderstood my post. I am saying that despite the fact that customers don't read ToS, it's still the problem of business and they should have a good customer support that answers their questions. People are lazy to read pages, they just have simple questions and want simple, fast and direct answers from the casino. How should casino solve that? By hiring a good customer support team. Why is that a casino's problem? Because it's their product and business, it becomes their problem when their customer can't understand something on their website.
And what affects business negatively is that they outsource customer supports, i.e. hire people in poor countries that have not enough knowledge about the casino product and also speak the broken English or whatever language it is.
Yes it's like that, Cheesy I understood a little but after you explained it I understood.

Yes it is important that the casino has good customer support that understands what they are doing as long as the support is clear the language needs to be proficient otherwise it will be a misunderstanding between the customer and the support.

But some popular casinos will not work with such people there is definitely a selection where the casino will need support that is proficient and understands about their site as well as about the game.

Customer support knows their job very well, if you are gambling in a non reputable casino then you can also expect that they have a poor customer support. With the number of gamblers that could message the support, the support knows how to answer all those questions, and if it's related on TOS, they can only give a little information but they'll still tell you to read the full TOS. I think the TOS is not really an issue, the fact that we aren't reaading it anymore, it means we trust that the TOS is not their to cheat us, it's created based on the standard of the law since casinos are regulated.

Support mostly entertain on problems of deposits, withdrawals, grading of bets , and the like, the actual transaction I mean.

I think the theme with reading multiple pages ToS is not even about lazyness but about self-respect
some terms of service takes weeks to read, days... who has all this time? a lot of it is just shouting "take my data" and letting it be...

this is true for social media websites, banks and of course gambling websites.
95  Local / Português (Portuguese) / Re: MEGATHREAD - os livros que o bitcointalk lê on: April 25, 2024, 02:52:50 PM
descobri essa autora "larinha" sem querer e to lendo o livro dela "eu quero a árvore que existe - 5 ensaios para o mundo real"

to gostando

fala de tempo, trabalho, vida, tudo de forma bem poética por um olhar diferente do meu que me abre a cabeça para novas formas de ver o mundo

recomendo





alguém lendo algo diferente e novo por aí?
96  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: The madness of gambling addicts. on: April 25, 2024, 02:39:13 PM
~snip~
I think we take "making money" too much as a signal of success when this is not always true
one can make money in several different ways and a person who makes a lot of money without morality doesn't deserve a label of sucess
of course the final judge is always time and we have no way to bribe our pillows...
sometimes I wonder if I believe in karma as a wishful thinking thing or as truth... let it be

Money in a way is an indicator of success, at least it is proof that people find what you are doing as valuable so they are willing to pay for it.

There might be other things that are extremely interesting, but maybe they are not valued by society. That's possible.

In the end as usual a balance is probably the best way of dealing with this.

the thing with success definitions is interesting
my success definition doesn't have a lot to do with money, money is inside the equation but I put success way more related to free time, being able to choose what to do with your time and the people you want to spend time with

a bit like "full bank account, empty schedule" + happy and fit.
97  Local / Português (Portuguese) / Re: o bitcoin tem seu próprio fuso horário on: April 25, 2024, 01:59:01 PM

que comentário rude e desnecessário,
não to entendendo sua obsessão comigo ultimamente.

e não, um contador online que funciona em qualquer timezone e está disponível para todas as pessoas pela internet não é o mesmo que um relógio, você é inteligente para que eu não precise explicar o por quê.


Que isso jovem Padawan. Você é um dos maiores amigos que tenho aqui na nossa aba local do fórum do bitcointalk. Peço desculpas se te magoei com meu comentário. Estou pensando em até te mandar um chaveiro de brinde. Ele foi produzido na minha impressora 3d. Veja se não ficou bonito:



achei fofo, eu aceitaria.

se isso é uma tentativa de conseguir meu endereço não vai funcionar, eu consigo me multiplicar e desaparecer e reaparecer em vários lugares ao mesmo tempo
venho treinando essa habilidade por muitos anos e agora finalmente consegui masterizá-la...
98  Local / Português (Portuguese) / Re: o bitcoin tem seu próprio fuso horário on: April 24, 2024, 03:33:59 PM
Assim a primeira vista, a ideia não parece má.
Mas, como você usaria o Bitcoin como referencia de tempo?

Pensei em usar o numero de blocos como referencia, mas pode variar em horas ou dias, o momento dos mesmos.

Então, como usava o blockchain do Bitcoin para gerir o tempo?

Não seria mais fácil e barato usar um despertador para gerir o tempo ? Acontece que o @Lucasgabd adora ficar inventando utilidades para o bitcoin e sempre aparece com essas maravilhas. Parece que ele fica uma boa parte do dia inventando novas soluções.  Isso chama-se popularmente de falta do que fazer Grin Grin Grin

que comentário rude e desnecessário,
não to entendendo sua obsessão comigo ultimamente.

e não, um contador online que funciona em qualquer timezone e está disponível para todas as pessoas pela internet não é o mesmo que um relógio, você é inteligente para que eu não precise explicar o por quê.



<...>


Lembrei também de um livro de antropologia que li faz décadas, que era uma sociedade que marcava o tempo por eventos. Era tipo '' depois que as cabras voltarem pra casa''. '' Depois que o sol....''

isso é muito maneiro! me lembra a diferença de alguns festivais que participei que tinham hora exata para começar uma atividade em comparação com outros que tinham horas livres do tipo "manhã 1", "manhã 2"... se na noite anterior tinha uma festa e todo mundo ia até mais tarde o período "manhã 1" acabava ficando pra mais tarde também
tem suas vantagens e desvantagens.
99  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: [CHESS] FIDE Candidates Chess Tournament 2022 on: April 24, 2024, 03:21:25 PM
Two years have passed unnoticed  Grin and we have a new candidate tournament, now 2024.
Any thoughts on the participants? Magnus is not participating, but the other day he gave an interview where, talking about the most worthy, he suggested that it would be fair if Caruana became the next champion.
At the same time, he mentioned his past favorite Firuzja and Abasov. What do you think?

interesting
time flies, things go by really fast
do you have a link for the interview
I think it would be interesting to watch it and I bet many other players could be interested on it

btw, are there any websites where we can bet on chess tournament outcomes?
100  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Do you blame someone for your gambling losses? on: April 24, 2024, 03:10:22 PM
Judging by what author write about this case, their fraud has been exposed. They will most likely have to face charges of perjury. That is, problems were added because of their wickedness. They also violated one of the main rules - not to use money that you cannot afford to lose.
And as for the fact that there are people who want someone else to pay for their food, then such people have always been there and will be, unfortunately, from human nature we will not escape anywhere

I see your point and that's exactly what happened, they pointing the blame to someone thinking that they can manipulate the situation and escape freely from what they've done, but they did not succeed, they need to pay and they need to suffer from the mistake that they both did, there's always a price when you do something that exceed from what you can afford to lose.

They need to take the blame and serve the sentece for both of them, they deserve it and hopefully they learned from that
mistake that they did and not to do it again.

no matter what happens, blaming other people for our actions and decisions won't change the past
the craziest thing is that even the victims have a parcel of responsibility on the situations because they could take different paths on their decisions
I'm the first one to avoid victim blame but we are in a network, no thing happens by one agent alone, things are connected.
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