Ah, Salsa, I'm mortally wounded (just kidding) you didn't propose me for this.  Didn't I come across well enough in the altcoin panel in Austin?

THis monster thread is impossible to search but early on BCNext and CfB had some kind of "time warp" plan that was to synchronize the exact iming between blocks, then dial that time down from 60 sec to 30 sec to 20 sec to 10 sec...etc....between blocks and get to 1000 TPS.   It was a byproduct of transparent forging.   Just to show I'm not dreaming this:


CfB, can you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go on record here to say what was supposed to happen with the original NXT code development timeline to implement 1000 TPS / time warp / transparent forging?  ?  As I understand it, Jena-Luc is not "up to speed" on TF, only you and BCNext were.  So...can you at least outline what the plan was even if there is no code on how to implement it?  Is this a capability you planned to implement that has dropped to the bottom of the list?  If so, why?

+1.  It's bad enough when we talk about doing Secret Twitter in out blockchain.  Now it's Secret Internet.  I am afraid all of these ideas are like 1000 TPS - boy they sound good, but when you start digging into the engineering / math / numbers end of it to actually implement them, reality forces a hard landing to the soaring balloon of dreams.

I still think of all the unicorns and Bigfoots running around in the NXT forest waiting to be captured and corralled, we should focus on blockchain pruning, block speedup, true TF, and getting to 1000 TPS.  Why we are off chasing the other dozen cool ideas being batted around instead of focusing on THIS ONE is beyond me.  Maybe because it is 1.0 crypto-coin oriented instead of 2.0 crypto-financial-service oriented.  

I say again, WE ARE IGNORING THE CRYPTOCOIN 1.0 FOUNDATION OF NXT AND THIS IS A MISTAKE.  We should be systematically shaking the trees for vendors who will put NXT logos beside their "Bitcoin accepted here" logos (like I see Salsacz doing a few posts back!).  We should be working RELENTLESSLY on increasing TPS as a demo to the world.  IF we build 1000 TPS, they will come.

James, please send me a PM documenting in one place how much from NXTcommunityfund you want to go to who.

You noticed that too, huh?  What a coincidence, eh?

Reposting here, since it probably got lost in The Big Thread:


Huh, instead of a code question you ask a science question about silver.  At last I am in my element (if you'll pardon the pun)!

First of all, something I ran across while researching this that is just plain cool:

http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/shrinkergallery.html

Here's somebody that talks about shrinkage while casting silver bullets:

http://www.patriciabriggs.com/articles/silver/silverbullet4.shtml

As far as cast silver shrinkage goes, here's a few other references for you to consider.  First, the shrinkage occurs in three stages:

http://thelibraryofmanufacturing.com/metalcasting_operation.html

Also, the thermal coefficient of expansion for silver varies with temperature, from 18.9 at room temp to 27.1 at 1100 K.  This says the first order approx for cubic vol expansion is roughly 3 times that which is 56.7 to 81.3 - in the range you were quoting:

http://www.kayelaby.npl.co.uk/general_physics/2_3/2_3_5.html

Next, this guy measured silver volume expansion in his lab setup in preparation for measuring a copper-iron alloy.  He got  2.56% on cooling and 3.58% on heating, against a tabulated value of 3.4-3.8%.  See pg 20 of the PDF, page 7 of the thesis:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diva-portal.org%2Fsmash%2Fget%2Fdiva2%3A218833%2FFULLTEXT01.pdf&ei=-AQhU_vTBsulkQeT4IHQDw&usg=AFQjCNFLhKymiTGSwBWr-prG1LsriM2udA&sig2=HEbEyhcf_FZMEzfRQqqPsQ&bvm=bv.62922401,d.eW0

The book he lists as Ref 32 (the 1976 edition of Smithells Metals Reference Handbook) is here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fworldtracker.org%2Fmedia%2Flibrary%2FEngineering%2FMetallurgy%2FSmithells%2520Metals%2520Reference%2520Book%2520(7th%2520Edition).pdf&ei=gAchU9LyHdDSkQfRj4CoAQ&usg=AFQjCNGsZHjMhb-8NW473q7STxAsIM5raQ&sig2=3uvHS5OGsAXxnfkBCnIBQw&bvm=bv.62922401,d.eW0

So we are saying NXT itself is not going to have true anonymity?  This was one of the selling points that we were adding in the near future, I thought.  Now it's nodecoin, not NXT, that is benefitting from NXTcash?  If so, shouldn't we call it NodeMixer and NodecCash?

I am getting more confused the deeper we are getting into this.  It is sounding like all of the good stuff about NXT (secure nodes, anonymity) are getting poured into the Nodecoin side of the equation...and can no longer be claimed by NXT itself.

Is this really true?  If you are running NRS 0.8.9 on a node, you are ineligible to be selected to forge a block and receive the standard NXT fee award for forging that block?  If so, this is news to me.  How does NRS 0.8.9 know you are running a node and not an open client and so exclude you from generating a block?  How is DGex managing to forge so many NXT with all the NXT they are holding from clients?  You're telling me Graviton has 50 million of other people's NXT running on his laptop computer with an open client and not a rackmount server node?

Somebody tell me one more time what the difference is between an open client and a node, and what hallmarking is and what good it does.  I thought a node was the same as an open client on a laptop, it could just handle more bandwidth.

With all due respect to the excellent product you have created at peerexplorer.com, it is not a $50 million capitalized group endeavor that we are hoping to grow into a multi-billion dollar resource for public use.

No.  Nodecoin is not "just" an asset if it is integrated / hardwired into the client software in a way that no other created asset on AE is that is just TRADED there, and if it is automatically given away to certain client users in a way that no other created asset is.

I think there is a generational thing here and I am on the old end of the stick.  I never spent any time playing a video game watching a point counter go up and up and up to happy little sounds, I wasted my time watching people go for huge piles of money on The Sopranos, The Shield and Breaking Bad.  I want huge piles of money.  I want 1 NXT = $1000.  I don't see how giving out free coins makes that happen.  Of course, I don't understand how Farmville or Candy Crush or Twitter makes money either.  Oh wait, they don't.

NXT is an ecosystem and lots of things find their niche in a true ecosystem.   Good luck, James.

There's three possibilities and only three possibilities.  

1. Nobody gets this gift for participating
2. Some people don't get this gift even though they did participate
3. Everybody gets the same gift

We as a community are doing something useless that is a waste of time if we do 3.  
We as a community are doing something "unfair" if we do 2.  
That's why I vote 1.

I have spent some more time thinking about this and have one more post to say about nodecoins in a calm, non-confrontational manner.  No "this will destroy NXT" chest thumping here - just some core identity questions to think about.

It is true that nodecoins are just one more type of created asset and that it is not part of the NXT core code in Java and that soon anybody is going to be able to create their own coin and trade it on AE.

Where nodecoin becomes part of the fabric of NXT is if we as a community decides to offer it as an official ongoing reward to run a computer and support our network.

Once we do this, once we cross over this line, we can no longer call ourselves a pure Proof of Stake cryptocurrency.  

We will have changed the core definition of what NXT is if the NXT experience is expanded to include the awarding of nodecoin along with the forging of NXT.

Now, we are a very young cryptocurrency.  We have to build a brand if we are to survive.  Branding involves differentiating yourself from other brands; in our case, Bitcoin.  Good branding also has to be clear and distinct and simple to understand on a gut or subconscious level without having to do a lot of reasoning or logic to figure out what the difference is with a competing brand.

The best branding NXT has come up with so far is that it is green.  NXT uses far less electricity than PoW mining - megawatts less, and that's a hugely significant amount.  A simple way of communicating this "green idea" is "They're PoW and use lots of power; we're PoS so we don't have to".  Even at Texas Bitcoin Conference the Jane Sixpack who was sitting beside me in the panel got that idea when I expressed it and said it would resonate among the average public.  

Now I am afraid - I have fear without proof - that officially structuring our product to give out nodecoins as a created-out-of-thin air reward to our users will compromise our brand.  This SOUNDS like Proof of Work.   In fact it is not, since the person doing it hasn't done one single thing they would not have done if the reward was not given to them.  They have done no extra computations.  They have burned no extra electricity.  Really they have just given to NXT Proof of Existence or Proof of Participation.  It's like getting a Perfect Attendance award in elementary school - a piece of paper that makes you feel good for something you should do anyway.  

But now if we do this we take away significant differences between us and our competition.  Now NXT officially gives out "award coins" out of thin air, just like Bitcoin.   Now we WANT people to think the award coins have speculative value and will rise in value on our AE through speculation and trading, just like Bitcoin.  We have created a way for people to get-rich-quick on NXT, just like Bitcoin.  So - how are we different from Bitcoin?

And if we do this we also have to add caveats to our story we tell to brand ourselves.   NXT is green - but their Proof of Work coins are dirty and our Proof of Work coins are clean, because they have to burn megawatts of electricity and throw away literally 15 thousand million billion perfectly good cryptographic block candidates that don't have enough zeros on the front end to win a prize to get their next block and win extra prize coins, and we give our prize coins away at the next block for doing absolutely nothing extra at all.  It makes us sound as crazy as Bitcoin.  

Compare that to "They're PoW and use LOTS of power; we're PoS so we don't have to".

It's not nodecoins themselves I have a problem with.  The ability to create new coins on top of the NXT blockchain is a brilliant piece of work, James.  I can see where that is of interest to many people and will draw many people to NXT.  It's the rationale that NXT has to give nodecoins away to help "secure the network" or "pay for the network" that I question.  If people are creating their own coins and trading them on AE, won't they have their clients open and be supporting the NXT network during that time?   As we become more successful and add the other services such as streaming quotes and AE  candlestick charts and all the rest so AE looks more and more like an "official" exchange, isn't THIS going to keep people interested in keeping their clients open so they can follow the ever-growing action?   Won't THIS support and secure the network?

I would go so far to say that instead of giving out free nodecoins on AE, we should cut NXT transaction fees to zero on AE.  Won't THIS bring more people to AE - making it a TOTALLY FREE exchange with NO service fees or house cut AT ALL?  Now THAT'S branding.  THAT'S a product differentiator.  That will bring people to NXT in droves:  FREE FREE FREE.  And it costs us nothing - it's just another feature in the client software, and a choice we make as a community on how to operate our coin, and an approach that DOES NOT COMPROMISE OUR STATUS AS A PURE PROOF OF STAKE COIN.

James, don't be discouraged.  You have done a brilliant piece of work that will draw many people to NXT.  As you say, though, this tech is so revolutionary and so disruptive that it has the potential to disrupt NXT itself.  And something with that much power we have GOT to have open conversations about and decide if we want to do genetic engineering on ourselves and alter our very DNA and mutate into something new.  

I say let everybody in the world create 1000 new coins and trade them with wild, crazy abandon on AE - but not NXT itself.  In my opinion, NXT itself should not do this.  Do not create a "special" extra NXT coin, and certainly not one that is then GIVEN AWAY.  The casino runs the game, it doesn't play at the tables itself.  Let the action generated by everybody else's coins being traded cause clients to be open and the NXT network supported.  Don't try to generate this support by the emotional draw of a "free giveaway" that tries to pull people in by playing to their greed and raise in them hopes of get-rich-quick.


Don't make NXT have a component that appeals to the problem gambler that lurks in all of us.  Especially me, my name is rickyjames and I am a poker addict...

Before we pull the trigger and decide as a community if free nodecoin giveaways will be part of our brand, we should ask and answer the following questions:

1. Will AE trading alone without nodecoin giveaways pull in enough interest to keep clients open and so generate network support?

2. Will free AE trading with NO NXT fees cause more interest than a nodecoin giveaway?

3. Is there even a need for nodecoin giveaways to support the network?  What is the status of the network, and what does it need in infrastructure and capital investment?

4. What is the expected moneyflow and cashflow amounts generated by a nodecoin giveaway that leads to cash payments of hallmarked nodes in a server farm?

We have time to think about and discuss all of this, and we need to.  Mixing in nodecoin giveaways as part of the NXT experience will change what we are, forever.  It is not a step to be taken lightly or just because we can.

88223      18084506661333818708      3/13/2014 7:58:45 PM   
0      0 + 0      0 B   
2      14729357117790820140      70.4 %

I seem to be stuck on this running 0.8.9 - how do I get back on the right track?

James, I'm gonna stop yelling fire in the movie theatre.  I am not an economist and I have no idea what will happen with nodecoin, I only have my fears.  I am an adventurer, tho, so ultimately I say let's let it rip and see what happens.  You have worked hard and have created an innovative piece of tech that has revolutionary potential.  You deserve kudos and compensation.  I do not want to be a wet blanket that destroys your enthusiasm, your enthusiasm is one of the greatest assets we have in this community.  So please accept my admiration for you doing what I do not have the skill set to do myself.

We all care about NXT and have our own ways to contribute to it.   My ways to contribute are basically to promote it as a first gen coin with key advantages over Bitcoin - green, efficient PoS TF, lightweight / prunable blockchain, 1000TPS, up-and-coming anonymity via mixing/zerocash, etc. etc.  This is what I understand best and what I think I can push / sell to a receptive audience.  My preference would be for dev work to concentrate on bringing these 1st gen capabilities online ASAP, get NXT established as a strong 1st gen coin, THEN bring on the 2nd gen icing on the cake.  Instead we seem to be jumping right into the 2nd gen goodness as our main claim to fame - AE, nodecoin/othercoins, alias registration.  Maybe rolling out these new revolutionary capabilities first will cause NXT to take off like a rocket. I hope so.  

It's all gonna get developed eventually, this group is that smart.  I only hope that our sequencing of rollout is optimal instead of haphazard.  No matter what, you've done great and we all appreciate your efforts.  That's a fact.

I still say outline for me the path money takes from being created as nodecoin to paying for a server via Paypal.  Or Bitcoin.  Because NXT is still an infant.

Jesus.  We will have our own little coin market cap war inside NXT.  It's a recursive fight to the death.  I thought AE would just be a way to trade coins peer-to-peer and avoid transaction fees altogether.  As soon as you devalue NXT to be the transaction fee token instead of a 1st gen coin, it is automatically devalued to be less than the coins being traded on it.  This coin will self-destruct in five seconds...

OK, there's 525,600 minutes in a year.  Say everybody gets 5 nodecoins per block.  That's 2.6 million node coins per year.  If their value under a "points" system is 0.01 NXT (completely arbitrary, who knows what the market price would be - but a "free" coin had better be worth very little NXT), that's the same as creating a new stash of 26,000 NXT per year - that's an inflation rate of 0.0000026%.  At the current nickel per NXT, that's $1300 per year raised for servers.  If NXT goes up by a factor of 10, that's $13K per year.

Let me just say, if NXT goes up by a factor of 10, there are PLENTY of stakeholders here (me included) that would pay a voluntary "donation" / tax of 0.0000026% to support the computer network that made it happen.

I totally agree.  And I do not see how nodecoin funds nodes.  How does creating a free coin create real money that gets spent buying a server for a month?  Map for me the flow of money....