NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[apenzl]

VPS

Free Openshift + NxtKit
https://github.com/nxt-ext/nxt-kit

Paid VPS + Managed for free
https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=544&sid=835264139922f2db0a82732dacf827a3

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[bitcoinpaul]

how would i go about running a node? its not possible for me to leave a computer running all the time... (renting a room and my laptop is LOUD) so cant leave it running.. is there anything else i can do?

raspberry pi / cubietruck.

cool il get on that one!

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/How-To:InstallNRSRaspberryPi

[wesleyh]

There's also alias assignment; you'd have to check client side if the alias exists already, asset issuance - checking if name exists, minimum fee. Placing a sell order checking if you have enough of the asset, etc etc.. Do you do all this client side? Most of these require that you do an asynchronous call anyway (checking if name exists), some perhaps even more than 1 request. So I think it's best you let the server do all that, and you just verify what is sent back is correct before signing and broadcasting it.

It doesn't make sense to write what you call an ultralight client then.

Why would you not implement this yourself in a client and have a trustless solution?

THESE 2.  JLP, can you add an option to allow NRS to only process certain API requests from localhost?

Why? The prepareTransaction is good to get server side error handling (one shouldn't rely on client side error handling), when we get the response back, we can "unpack" it and see if it's the same as our input, if so, broadcast it out. You shouldn't disable this functionality.

Yes, if it's done like this it is ok from a security point of view.

On the other hand, looking at SendMoney.java for example, it's really just a check for enough funds. The rest of the checks in there is trivial and should be checked client-side anyway.

So I don't think prepareTransaction is worth the (asynchronous) hassle.

[Touque]

- lick us at facebooks and twitters and retweet us

LOL

U, guys, can't stop creating memes as I see. YUB, HODL and LICK!

Edit: Oh, I forgot about FOGRE...

It is right. I lick Nxt! We all lick Nxt!

[Pouncer]

Where nodecoin becomes part of the fabric of NXT is if we as a community decides to offer it as an official ongoing reward to run a computer and support our network.

Once we do this, once we cross over this line, we can no longer call ourselves a pure Proof of Stake cryptocurrency.  

We will have changed the core definition of what NXT is if the NXT experience is expanded to include the awarding of nodecoin along with the forging of NXT.

This is the key point of rj's argument. Nodecoin is not any "ordinary" coin anyone can create on top of Nxt. If it were, no one would have any reason to object to it.

Reasons why it is not any ordinary coin:-

1. It was designed to be used as an integral part of Nxt. At the heart of any crypto currency is the blockchain, and how it is secured. NodeCoin has been positioned to be the mechanism to (help) secure it. Anything, whose function is to secure the network will be seen as an integral part of Nxt, whether it is in the NRS core or otherwise. This alters, or at least can be perceived to alter, the DNA and hence the very identity of Nxt. Therefore it cannot be treated as just an ordinary coin anybody can build.

2. It is designed to power the key engines of Nxt (AE, gateways, NXTCash, NXTmixer, etc), which are projects funded by the community. "Nodecoin should be redeemable for accessing services (DAC, NxtCash, whatever)". So if a Nxter has millions of Nxt but no NodeCoins, he has to buy them just to uses the very services that are suppose to make Nxt unique? That makes NodeCoins to be more superior in function than NXT.

Edit: I hope I have got this point wrong!

3. It has been positioned by James as a non-profit, community project. This gives further credence to Ricky's point that "we as a community decide to offer it as an official ongoing reward to run a computer and support our network". If this has been privately developed by James as a random Nxter, this association will be absent.

If we agree that it is no ordinary coin for the above reasons, then we should consider Ricky's point about NodeCoin altering the very fabric of Nxt; and not just brushing it aside as just a coin anybody can create on top of Nxt.

[Damelon]

@Damelon

i read your comment on reddit where you mention 4 companies that will ipo on the AE? i know of NMAC and DGEX but may i ask what are the other two and would anyone have links to more information about them and their ipo's? thanks

RHOS (Robin Hood Of Sound): http://www.rhosmovement.com/?lang=en

and

Nxtopia: a game built on top of Nxt. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=474535.0)

[landomata]

Idea:

Don't know the feasibility of it though.

1) Inf-Com puts up 1,000,000 Nxt. in an account.....issues a Sell on AE....sets the price at 100 Nodecoin for 1 Nxt or whatever ....then if anyone who has been running his node has 100 nodecoin he can redeem it and get 1 nxt.

Nodecoins should not be transferable. Once they are redeemed they should be send back to the nodepool for collection by others.

I'm sure we can fix the Nodecoin generation rate so the program can run for x amount of time.


This is a rough idea....I don;t have the time to think this thru into more details.


It will allow new nxters to determine how much Nxt they can get if they run their clients for x amount of time.

 

[gs02xzz]

Nodecoin will not allow you to circumvent Nxt fees, it's not built into core.  It's just an asset that you get for running a node, very simple. People will have to run Nxt client to get Nodecoin, so I have no idea why this would be perceived as bad for Nxt.  Nodecoin should be redeemable for accessing services (DAC, NxtCash, whatever), not for Nxt itself.  I don't see anyone trading Nxt for Nodecoin.  It gives us a good testcase for AE coins.  Thank you James.  Now let's help James with DAC, NxtCash, the good stuff!  

If you run a NXT node, you are supposed to receive NXTcoins and it is called forging. That is what NXTcoins are designed to do. If you think people running nodes don't get enough Nxtcoins, you need to fix it by increasing the transactions or compensate with NXT or btc. You don't compensate them with nodecoins because nodecoins are created from nowhere and almost no cost. Then you pay 0.01 Nxtcoin for 1 nodecoins. You devalue the Nxtcoins right here. All transactions (dac, nxtcash, Escrow service and so on) on NXT platform should be charged with NXT and NXT alone.

Imaging in the future, if there are 30% nodes are compensated by nodecoins, will you still be able to control the price and only pay 0.01 NXT for 1 nodecoins? No, it will be 1 nodecoin=0.3 Nxtcoin. It will devalue NXTcoins right there.

It is great to create coins on top of NXT. It is also BCNext's vision. But you need to do it with a business purpose, not doing what Nxtcoins are supposed to do. BCNext has mentioned that he tried to reduce mining for mining (selfish mining). We should not double reward this kind forging/mining for mining thing, especially at NXT owners cost. This is definitely not consistent to BCNext's vision.

+1.

[martismartis]

how would i go about running a node? its not possible for me to leave a computer running all the time... (renting a room and my laptop is LOUD) so cant leave it running.. is there anything else i can do?

raspberry pi / cubietruck.

cool il get on that one!

Or use Android TV stick 

[mcjavar]

Where nodecoin becomes part of the fabric of NXT is if we as a community decides to offer it as an official ongoing reward to run a computer and support our network.

Once we do this, once we cross over this line, we can no longer call ourselves a pure Proof of Stake cryptocurrency.  

We will have changed the core definition of what NXT is if the NXT experience is expanded to include the awarding of nodecoin along with the forging of NXT.

This is the key point of rj's argument. Nodecoin is not any "ordinary" coin anyone can create on top of Nxt. If it were, no one would have any reason to object to it.

Reasons why it is not any ordinary coin:-

1. It was designed to be used as an integral part of Nxt. At the heart of any crypto currency is the blockchain, and how it is secured. NodeCoin has been positioned to be the mechanism to (help) secure it. Anything, whose function is to secure the network will be seen as an integral part of Nxt, whether it is in the NRS core or otherwise. This alters, or at least can be perceived to alter, the DNA and hence the very identity of Nxt. Therefore it cannot be treated as just an ordinary coin anybody can build.

2. It is designed to power the key engines of Nxt (AE, gateways, NXTCash, NXTmixer, etc), which are projects funded by the community. "Nodecoin should be redeemable for accessing services (DAC, NxtCash, whatever)". So if a Nxter has millions of Nxt but no NodeCoins, he has to buy them just to uses the very services that are suppose to make Nxt unique? That makes NodeCoins to be more superior in function than NXT.

Edit: I hope I have got this point wrong!

3. It has been positioned by James as a non-profit, community project. This gives further credence to Ricky's point that "we as a community decide to offer it as an official ongoing reward to run a computer and support our network". If this has been privately developed by James as a random Nxter, this association will be absent.

If we agree that it is no ordinary coin for the above reasons, then we should consider Ricky's point about NodeCoin altering the very fabric of Nxt; and not just brushing it aside as just a coin anybody can create on top of Nxt.

You all have to understand that it is out of our power/control to decide if Nodecoin (or any other coin) will be built ontop of Nxt.
It is an asset. People will decide if they use it or not.

[martismartis]

Nodecoin is ASSET!!! Don't mix with coin/project/whatever.

[lopalcar]

Idea:

Don't know the feasibility of it though.

1) Inf-Com puts up 1,000,000 Nxt. in an account.....issues a Sell on AE....sets the price at 100 Nodecoin for 1 Nxt or whatever ....then if anyone who has been running his node has 100 nodecoin he can redeem it and get 1 nxt.

Nodecoins should not be transferable. Once they are redeemed they should be send back to the nodepool for collection by others.

I'm sure we can fix the Nodecoin generation rate so the program can run for x amount of time.


This is a rough idea....I don;t have the time to think this thru into more details.


It will allow new nxters to determine how much Nxt they can get if they run their clients for x amount of time.

 

I like the idea, I think that funds could come from holders donation, they could donate to that account all nxt they mine every days and by this way way distribute all fees as if they are a pool, ore even using this idea: All earned fees from all accounts are automatically redirected to that account and then distributed proportionally betweenn al forgers? Could this be implemented in the nxt core? Is like a decentraliced pool, same as all fees are sent to the genesis account, couldn't be another account which receives all nxt forged and then divided among all nodes?
Sorry for my english, don't know if I explain myself or even if it's possible...

[igmaca]

It's a bit of a disgrace they only pay 1 fee for sending al those hunderd-thousands of NXT. Sometimes I think the fees should be relative to the amount of NXT. Something like this:

< 10 000 NXT send = min. 1 NXT fee
10000-100000 NXT send = min. 10 NXT fee
100000-1000000 NXT send = min. 100 NXT fee
> 1000000 NXT send = min. 1000 NXT fee

In the future this could be, because we want to lower the fees:

< 10 000 NXT send = min. 0.01 NXT fee
10000-100000 NXT send = min. 0.1 NXT fee
100000-1000000 NXT send = min. 1 NXT fee
> 1000000 NXT send = min. 10 NXT fee
 

What are your thoughts? The big guys earn of the fees of the small guys now, so it's more fair if they pay more for transactions?

Fee should depend on data size coz it solves a technical problem (spam prevention). An attempt to make it depending on sent amount is an attempt to make the world more "fair". Don't mix technical and political/ethical problems, plz.

I agree.

But the fees are only required to prevent spam? I do not agree

but it depends on how these are fee distributed can distort meaning nxt

We want Nxt green? yes
We want Nxt safe? yes
We want Nxt decentralized? Yes

Such as the fee currently are distributed this is true? not

Currently Nxt is green? yes
Currently Nxt is safe? yes using VPS (trust points, centralized)
Currently Nxt is decentralized? No. Raspberri pi nodes have no interest in having its node active. There are few transactions and value of the fee is ridiculous because Nxt coin price is low

[wesleyh]

PrepareTransaction does error checking. If you do not use this function then you need to do all that yourself. Some could be done client side, but I wouldn't recommend that. There's also alias assignment; you'd have to check if the alias exists already (API call), asset issuance - checking if name exists, minimum fee. Placing a sell order checking if you have enough of the asset, (Api calls) etc etc.. Most of these require that you do an asynchronous call anyway, some perhaps even more than 1 request. So I think it's best you let the server do all that, and you just verify what is sent back is correct before signing and broadcasting it.

Also, if you think about scalability, there are better ways to optimize the API - for example, to get 100 transactions from a user you need to do 101 requests. 1 to get transaction ids, and then 100 to get transaction details for each transaction ID.

It doesn't make sense to write what you call an ultralight client then.

Why would you not implement this yourself in a client and have a trustless solution?

THESE 2.  JLP, can you add an option to allow NRS to only process certain API requests from localhost?

Why? The prepareTransaction is good to get server side error handling (one shouldn't rely on client side error handling), when we get the response back, we can "unpack" it and see if it's the same as our input, if so, broadcast it out. You shouldn't disable this functionality.

Im thinking about it from a network design and scalability perspective.  IMO the scalable way do handle things is with a light client.  A VPS will be able to support 2x more light clients than unltrlight clients.

[wesleyh]

@wesley dont know if you saw my post just another idea!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5684566#msg5684566

Good idea, didn't see, will implement

[martismartis]

Nodecoin is ASSET!!! Don't mix with coin/project/whatever.

Nodasset!    

Yes From now everybody should use nodasset instead of nodecoin, so there will be less misunderstandings in debates. Now I see one talks about wheels, while other talks about shoes.

[Damelon]

@Damelon

i read your comment on reddit where you mention 4 companies that will ipo on the AE? i know of NMAC and DGEX but may i ask what are the other two and would anyone have links to more information about them and their ipo's? thanks

RHOS (Robin Hood Of Sound): http://www.rhosmovement.com/?lang=en

and

Nxtopia: a game built on top of Nxt. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=474535.0)

do you buy Nxtopia shares via giving towards the bounty or will it ipo on the exchange??

same goes for RHOS (i was this before but didnt realise we would be able to buy shares.. will it ipo on AE?

You are asking me questions I don't have an answer to yet

Both projects are still modelling things for their IPO's according to my info.

The things we are discussing right now will probably influence the form they will take.

If all goes well, RHOS should come with a definite plan soon, though.
The game may take a bit longer to prepare as it will need some more time to set things up correctly

[Fatih87SK]

Nodecoin;

[Damelon]

My expert view on the last week:



 

[Mises_77]