If you are familiar with Stellar, which is very much like Ripple, it should be fairly obvious.

If not maybe it is best to start by getting familiar with Stellar.

Basically we simply use Stellar tokens to represent various coins, and Stellar lets any token trade against any other token.

Probably the best way to arrange to turn coins on the blockchain into tokens and vice-versa is to contact me ("knotwork") on the Keybase end to end encrypted chat system, which can be very handy for this kind of thing due to including a Stellar wallet right in the app.

Mind you, last I checked it seemed like the Stellar wallet included in the Keybase chat app did not let you set up arbitrary "trust lines", so likely in order to use our GPL and GPL2 tokens in that wallet you'd need to first use one of the several other Stellar wallets that are available to initially set up the trust lines for whatever Stellar account you use with the wallet that is in Keybase.

Once you have set up the trust lines though, the Stellar wallet inside Keybase seems to work fine.

Other wallets though are probably good to have too if you want to get into trading on the markets as I do not recall the Keybase wallet really providing that or if it does maybe not in as sphisticated a way as some of the other wallets that are available for the Stellar platform.

See Stellar.org for lists of current wallets.

-MarkM-

Even if you missed the swap, GPL Classic is still running so you still have your GPL; all you missed out on is this newfangled GPL2 stuff...

...And you can trade between the two on the Stellar platform if you like, since on Stellar any asses can be traded against any other asset.

See http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/

-MarkM-

I am not sure which if any coins used in the Galactic Milieu are up to date enough with bitcoin code to work properly with the various methods folks have come up with for doing cross-chain atomic exchange. For example I think a lot of them still have "malleable transactions" even as they are so old.

Open Transactions planned to federate the reserve-custodian function but I had to move on from that platform as they refused to finalize data formats or warrant that there would be conversion tools to migrate data from old to new formats if/when formats changed.

So currently acting as custodian of the coins represented by tokens still seems somewhat necessary for various of the coins.

But hey if you can somehow figure out which if any of our blockchains will work with whatever cross-chain stuff your system does to secure coins on the real blockchain that are in use as tokens on your system I'd love to hear which ones should work and see it implemented.

Next platform Galactic Milieu is likely to issue onto is Diamond (DMD) when its "version 4" comes out. Meanwhile accumulation of DMD in readiness for that era is ongoing.

-MarkM-

Actually this coin is still alive and is in use in the Galactic Milieu which in turn means you can trade it on the HORIZON and Stellar platforms, see http://makemoney.knotwork.com/

For historic tables and plots of relative values see http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

-MarkM-

Of course it is still alive, it is also still in use in the Galactic Milieu.

This also it can be traded on the HORIZON and Stellar platforms, see http://makemoney.knotwork.com/

For historical tables and plots of relative values see http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

-MarkM-

Yes, FairBriX is still running. It is still in use in the Galactic Milieu and can be traded on the HORIZON and Stellar platforms, see http://makemoney.knotwork.com/

For historical tables and plots of relative values see http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

-MarkM-

Last few times I looked for free open-source code for giving people tokens in return for coins there were two problems:

One, they claimed the code was not for production-use, that is, not actually hardened for real use;

Two, the code minted tokens on the fly to represent the supposedly-received coins, instead of only letting folks "buy" existing tokens already previously minted; that violates my only issue tokens for half my coins policy and also implies issuing tokens representing coins that are probably still in a "hot" wallet not yet actually frozen or buried safely away somewhere.

-MarkM-

You are absoutely correct, except my fraction policy is the opposite of what you are thinking of, since my policy is to only issue tokens representing HALF of the coins I actually have, so that that half can in principle be locked away extremely hard to get at while I still have the other half with which to "redeem" the tokens.

Check my Digitalis Open Transactions Server thread and you will see this is my original policy from way back when we were using the Open Transactions platform.

-MarkM-

Or have me or anyone else looking to "cash out" DVC tokens for actual DVC coins on the blockchain send you tokens for coins.

Safest contact means is probably the KEYBASE end to end encrypted chat assuming it really IS end to end encrypted. It also contains a Stellar wallet, conveniently.

-MarkM-

That should, technically, be incorrect, IN THAT my issuer account SHOULD only be issuing things to an issued-to account which in turn passes them on to wherever they are going.

Whenever creating tokens it is wise to only issue them to a separate issued-to account, for various reasons including that on some/many platforms sending tokens back to the actual issuer vanishes them.

On the Stellar platform that happens but also on Stellar the issuer does not typically see in their client how many they issued, so I use my issued-to account's trust-line size as my record of how many total I have issued. Which also means every one of them can be sent back to the issued-to account for re-use instead of sent back to the actual issuer vanishing them.

Like I said, a technicality.

-MarkM-

Chat with me in KEYBASE end-to-end encrypted chat, I give you blockchain-DVC address to send DVC to and send you tokens; or, do similar deal with anyone else who has tokens they want to cash out to actual on-the-blockchain DVC coins.

PROVISO: This assumes I have spare DVC tokens sitting around; better in the long term is if you can send me fuckloads of actual DVC so I can issue half that many new DVC tokens, but that assumes you want something else that I have available in return for the other half of the actual coins you send.

You can see a whole selection of other things I have available in the tables plots etc linked from http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html and/or mentioned on y http://makemoney.knotwork.com/ site.

-MarkM-

Yes, I have ancient stockpiles of many coins, mostly those in use in the Galactic Milieu, both on the HORIZON platform and the Stellar platform, see http://makemoney.knotwork.com/

My policy is to issue tokens representing only HALF of the coins I actually have, so that in principle that half can be buried under my swimming-pool or split between umpteen split-keys divided among many many deposit-boxes or whatever, "forever" or until my heirs and assigns decide for some reason there is no further use or need for the tokens; meanwhile the other half can be used to cash back out all the tokens without having to go digging into those ancient piles of coins to redeem the tokens.

Look for me in the KEYBASE end to end encrypted chat system that includes a Stellar wallet.

That particular Stellar wallet does not seem to support creating trust-lines for arbitrary tokens so you likely will need to use some other Stellar client to actually set up trust lines initially, but once the account used by your KEYBASE Stellar-wallet has the trust lines the tokens can be sent received etc right in there while we use the chat to co-ordinate.

NOTE that although I can issue more of the tokens given more of the actual on-the-blockchain coins, my policy of only issuing tokens representing HALF the coins I have means that if you do want me to issue new tokens for new coins you send me I will only be able to issue HALF as many tokens as you send coins. So basically you need to buy something with the other half.

For example DevelCuy not swo long ago sent me a bunch of actual DeVCoins, half of which bought General Financial Corp (GFC) shares; the other half allowed me to issue a number of new tokens representing half the coins he sent me.


-MarkM-

FreiEchange.com

Also on HORIZON and Stellar networks, see http://makemoney.knotwork.com/


-MarkM-

The 14 GFC shares are in a "DeVCoin Foundation" account on HORIZON, NHZ-M58F-Y78J-4DA6-75UUA

The "DVC Holdings" account on HORIZON, NHZ-YC2W-ZDCP-NS4G-4CEGK, is the "treasury" the Galactic Milieu uses to compute the value of a DeVCoin.

The current relative values of other things in terms of DeVCoins is at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc

Other tables of values are linked to menu at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html including historical values from previous "Latest Rates include file"s.

Lists of assets on HORIZON and STELLAR platforms are at http://makemoney.knotwork.com/

It is worth mentioning that the "treasuries" are not comprehensive collections of all of a currency's assets; they typically also have at least one "slush fund" if only as a place to keep any of their own coin they have on hand, and many also have units of the abstract economy units used in the Galactic Milieu as abstractions of small, medium and large businesses.

Plus of course the GHC asset, General Hosting Corp aka General Holding Corp, can only be held by FreeCiv civilisations so is not implemented as assets on HORIZON nor STELLAR but nonetheless is added into the treasuries for purposes of the value calculations. DVC will need some of those in order to start up a FreeCiv civilisation as not only do you have to be a civilisation to hold them you also have to hold them to become a civilisation. The ideal is that you hold enough of them that their increase in value as you pay civilisation-hosting fees offsets those fees so that they hopefully amount more to a kind of savings, saved within the value of the GHC shares you hold, than an actual fee in effect. Although as and when GHC does incur hostings costs those will eat slightly into the accumulated funds, it is expected the value will grow for some time since the fees are based on the idea we will eventually have total immersion 3-D virtual reality representations of all the civilisations so the fees are intended to be enough to represent all the "square miles" your civilisation controls according to FreeCiv in something along the lines of Open Simulator or other free open source virtual-reality system.

Basically you ideally want to own at least as large a fraction of GHC's shares as you control of the total "square miles" controlled by civilisations on all the FreeCiv planets.

The steps from FreeCiv scale maps to immersive virtual reality are intended to include Crossfire RPG maps of FreeCiv tiles that contain cities or units first, then eventually Crossfire RPG (2-D tiles on individual-character scale) of entire FreeCiv planets, then some kind of terrain drawing algoritmm to make 3-D immersive versions of all that Crossfire RPG territory.

Last time I checked the civilisation hosting only amounted to maybe about (monthly in real Earth-months) CAD$3.50 for a single-city initial civilisation up to over CAD$14000 for a large civilisation such as the Brits of the planet known as B29 or the Canucks of the planet C29. So it can get quite expensive for large civilisations which is part of giving them incentives to be active in the Crossfire RPG and CoffeeMUD MUD layers to help exploit their territory more fully.

-MarkM-

P.S. Also there is a handy tool online for calculating stuff from the Latest Rates data: https://latestrates.traxo.me/

I never even tried testnets, I figure I am running on mainnet.

I run nodes at LFM.knotwork.com and at UFBSH.no-ip.org.

It does have value because it is set up in the Galactic Milieu's "treasuries" system not just as a currency with a "treasury" but also as a "reserve currency" others can hold in their own "treasury" toward the value of their own coin.

Its "treasury" account on the HORIZON platform is NHZ-LPYW-WJKM-4AN3-AUWXS

A look at the Latest Rates include file ( http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc ) shows GeistGeld (XGG) is curently calculated (based on the "treasuries") to be worth 31.65606456 DeVCoins.

It can be traded on the HORIZON and STELLAR platforms, see http://makemoney.knotwork.com/

-MarkM-

Well the coin is definitely alive and in use, it not only has its own "treasury" on the HORIZON network, account NHZ-XDR9-Y9WL-8E3Y-88M35, but is also implemented as a "reserve currency" that other such "treasuries" can use so that they can all count holdings of CLC toward the value of their own currency.

So far not a lot of them have actually done so, mostly I think it is the other currencies that were also implemented into the "treasuries" system lately that incorporated some CLC into their "treasury" since a bunch of the newly-implemented ones co-operated somewhat in getting themselves all set up.

This puts them a little ahead in terms of implementation of the "New Roman Denarius" that most-recently began to be implemented in that the NRD is so far only implemented as having a "treasury" from which to calculate its value and has not yet been added into those calculations as being itself a "reserve currency" for use in other "treasuries".

The "treasuries" system seems to work reasonably well after all these years in development but is still being tweaked, the current set of changes involves phasing out the use of shares in "treasuries", particularly the use of "finance corp" shares such as GFC (General Financial Corp) shares, mostly because such shares, particularly GFC itself, have over the years of accumulating interest on debts become quite strong "leverage" items so we are phasing out the use of them in "treasuries" to limit the affect of all that interest on the values of all the "treasury" based currencies. Instead the "treasuries" will need to actually put some of whatever folks pay their debts with into the "treasury" if they want any of those earnings to count toward their "treasury" and thus toward the calculated relative value of their currency.

I have just now finished calculating the "Latest Rates" include-file, http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc and uploaded it, am currently uploading the various tables and plots of historical values generated from it, it shows CLC's latest value in DeVCoins as CLCrate=34.94987343

(That is how many DeVCoins one CLC coin is computed to be worth based on the relative values of all the "treasuries" based currencies.)

-MarkM-

Many/most old coins use an old Berkely DB for the wallet, as Bitcoin still does.

So I usually first use the instructions for Bitcoin, involving acticvating a repository that holds those as well as bitcoin itself, to get that old BDB 4.8 installed.

After that often old coins compile fine, at least the daemon; I almost never even attempt to build a GUI, since I mostly run coins on machines I "ssh" and 'sftp" to.

-MarkM-

Hmm well there are slot machines somewhere in Crossfire RPG, I have not tried them nor checked their code to see what kinds of odds they provide; and in CoffeeMUD there is a script for making a poker dealer which presumably implements a poker game of player or players versus dealer, but I do not recall seeing it in use so it might not ever have worked for all I know. But actual "gambling" can be a "hot button" possibly best avoided so never really dug into either of those options.

In CoffeeMUD though there is an entire crafting system and that is what I set it up to aim for rather than the usual or even expected running around killing monsters for loot. After all, who has so much loot they feel like just giving it away to passing adventurers?

Characters in CoffeeMUD are so productive in fact, even with simple things like foraging, woodchopping, mining and gemdigging, that just giving accounts away would be an ever-growing hole in the economy; so far we have been playtesting with an eye toward figuring out about how much stuff a top-level character can rake in in a real year in order to figure a reasonable yearly fee per account aimed at letting those who make full use of the entire year can profit from those who don't stick with it and give up before breaking even.

Meanwhile the accounts the players have are financed by their nation, clan, guild. society, association or suchlike: the group they are part of that is already active on a larger scale.

There are less crafting / gathering type things in Crossfire RPG but there are some, and more maps focussed on such things can be made, but the main question with those would be who is going to "foot the bill" of keeping them stocked? So far players do not seem to be "milking the system" a lot so the Crossfire RPG "rabbithole" into the Milieu is still open at no charge for folks to join, but a person could for example simply keep creating a character, dropping its starting gear, and deleting the character, over and over and over again. piling up lots of loot then send another character for it or create another new character and cart all the stuff off to a pawnshop to sell it. A bunch of people going hard at that might be able to become a sufficient hole in the economy to force us to close even that last free rabbit-hole though I suppose we could first try reducing the starting equipment or making more of it be "gifts of the gods" that vanish back to the gods when you drop it or give it or try to sell it.

Economic considerations along such lines were always a major part of the point of having nations, clans, guilds and such, "groups" in general, so that players already in the game would finance bringing in new players by recruiting potential players into their "groups".

So basically right now one hangs out in Crossfire RPG making friends and hoping a friend will finance one into farther levels of play or show one how to do well enough by oneself in Crossfire to bootstrap oneself farther.

But one thing I learned from watching the Cryptocurrency industry is that a lot of "players" are happy to just "play" the currency / asset markets without feeling any need nor desire to be playing some character on some world somewhere walking potentially dangerous streets to reach a market, bank or stock exchange at which the character would be doing such trading; pure abstract trading where you just go to a website and trade seems quite engrossing enough for a lot of people without necessarily even caring what planet the things they are trading are on and without even any "rail baron" type layer involving actually transporting the traded stuff from place to place, it is just traded right where it is in effect then the profits taken home to the non-game world. So just having lots of things to trade at lots of different prices with lots of different interactions behind the scenes (from the perspective of the players just trading on web based exchanges) affecting the relative prices is probably quite game enough for some demographics.

Heck there are entire styles / strategies of play that do not even really show much interest in background details at all, they just play the changes in price without particularly caring, it often seems, why those changes happen. ("Technical analysis" for instance maybe if I understand such terms correctly?)

If you know of free open source online game code that would be suitable to deploy I'd love to hear of it and check it out. I have looked at a LOT of free open source online games and am still looking.

-MarkM-

Ah well that of course brings us back to the idea they should be creating value for the coins/assets.

I think way back in the beginning it was hoped that by giving them the coins they would be motivated to include the coins somehow into their projects, maybe enhancing the value of the coins and, by having that currency in common, the ability of their project to interact with others enhancing the value of them all and so on.

We were also trying to support all the other coins that could be merged-mined alongside DeVCoin, and trying also to motivate the creation of "exchanges" where all those coins could be traded.

It likely still makes sense that the first free open source projects we should be "supporting" should be those coins, since from the start those who have been with us from the beginning have presumably been accumulating all of them in the course of their merged-mining, and those mining pools that offered merged-mining might also still have such coins and so on.

Also the platforms where we can trade them, such as HORIZON and Stellar.

HORIZON used to be on Poloniex, I managed to buy up quite a few of them back then, it fluctuated usually between about 33 satoshis to 133 satoshis back then. It would be useful to get it (its native coin, HZ) onto exchanges again since on the HORIZON platform all pairs involve HZ, it insinuates itself into all trades. Maybe FreiExchange can be convinced to list it? Part of what could be in it for them could be that maybe that way we can finally get DeVCoin's "spot price" on the exchange back up over one satoshi to get some volume moving there in DeVCoin; it might also lead to more I0Coin activity too. IXCoin is already nicely active and is already up over 800 satoshis so hey, maybe folks looking to "cash out" to fiat could buy IXCoins? Or of course they could buy Stellar Lumens with something? I tried to set up pairs on the Stellar platform of everything against Lumens as well as everything against DeVCoins, so maybe if there are not a lot of Lumens offered directly against DeVCoin you could consume a whole bunch of offers of other things against DeVCoin then those other things against Lumens?

I think someone posted something somewhere about InterStellar maybe even having a tool or something for multi-stage converting of things?

Basically what we should probably be supporting first-off are things that provide value to our multiverse of intertwined projects, those so far being a whole bunch of classic and antique and science-fiction-milieu coins, the HORIZON and Stellar platforms (both originally chosen due to their distribution methods both of which handed out lots of free coins of their native coin allowing us to get set up on those platforms), and the various free open source multiplayer online games we have so far found to actually work and found a way to weave into the Milieu.

Speaking of which, there is one called Galaxy of Drones that looks like it could be useable given enough scale (as in number of players) and backstory and such, IF we can do well enough at this to be able to incorporate seven new products into the mix. Its basic concept seems to be that it is possible to set up a galaxy in such a way that power can be shared across the galaxy, serving as currency, and seven different types of planets can be mined each primarily for one particular type of "fuel" used to generate the power. The "technology levels" are basically a progression from the least-efficient fuel (and therefor type of planet) toward the most-efficient as well as through a fairly short list of types of ships used to attack and defend the planets.

It has a "mothership" mechanism whereby each player has a "mothership" they originally start play with and to which they ship the seven types of fuel-substance for "sale"; so it looks like it could be fitted into a larger scheme from which those motherships were presumably sent and to which the "motherships" send those seven products as they are "sold" for the "power" that acts as both the local currency of that galaxy and the means of production of all the building types and ship types within that galaxy.

So basically all we would need to do would be to monitor the "sales" of those products at the motherships, and have the products vanished by each mothership in the course of those "sales" arrive in some larger scheme of things in the warehousing depots of who-ever each particular "mothership" is backed by in that larger scheme of things.

So basically we would have seven new kinds of assets, complete with a scheme whereby they are "mined" and ability of the "miners" to build fleets to attack each other and to defend their own mining operations (planets) and so on.

As a free open source online massively multiplayer game that seems to actually work it certainly qualifies to be incorporated into the Milieu, but it is maybe a bit TOO massive for our current level of development inasmuch as test-playing it I easily racked up hundreds of planets but it became quite time-consuming to maintain a huge empire in it given I have so many other things to do. It could use more automation tools to make it easier to run huge empires or a very large population of players to exploit an entire galaxy without eating up the entire lives of the exploiters.

So basically turn your question around: which free open source projects can we find ways to create value with, and how can we expand our repertoire of projects and types of projects we can do that with?

We should look at projects with an eye to how we can fit them into our growing economy of projects.

We use a couple of "O-game clones" for intergalactic mining, FreeCiv for planetary scale running of civilisations in the civilised galaxy or galaxies, Crossfire RPG for "rogue-like" two-dimensional individual-character scale operations on those civilised planets, CoffeeMUD for text-based and thus easily scrip-table  individual character scale operations, and Battle for Wesnoth for, so far, creating docudramas documenting history, though for years now Wesnoth is supposed to have been heading toward being able to actually create history by being able to manipulate persistent worlds (databases) instead of merely creating docudramas or carrying our small scale "duel" type operations involving small units of troops and such.

What other projects do you have in mind to support first, and what does each have to offer as an enhancement to what we have so far?

We were supporting Open Transactions because it had looked like it would give us a good platform, and also if it did so maybe even be able to be used as a zoom in on FreeCiv worlds to provide actual operating markets, banks and stock-exchanges so when a city builds such a bulding it could pop up an entire Open Transactions server per market, bank or stock-exhange making them actually functional beyond the mere abstractions they exist as in FreeCiv itself.

Since in FreeCiv we can save each game-turn, thus could in principle branch off different timelines from any saved game, Battle for Wesnoth offers the potential to create time-cadet operations whereby a player could change the outcomes of some turn on some planet and branch off a new timeline, if time travel ends up somehow sometime being discovered / developed.

And so on.

Let us hear about more potentially useful free open source projects we can put to good use...

... Like STEEM maybe? STEEM seems like it could be useful...

With STEEM maybe we can reward people for creating masses of documention of what we already have going?

Folks could write about how they got into whatever facet of it all, what they found to be effective tactics for scaling up to some of the other facts and stuff like that? How and whay to create a Clan or Guild or Party or Society or Association, why one would choose to start such a thing using the Crossfire RPG interface rather than the COffeeMUD interface or vice-versa, gosh there is just so much folks could usefully write about...

-MarkM-

One thing I find awkward about "burning" coins is it makes it even harder to figure out how many of a coin actually exist.

It is bad enough having to deal with the ever-changing rates of minting of some coins without also trying to somehow figure out which coins already minted are still "in existence" and how many are in "lost or impossible addresses".

Please understand that the calculated values based on the "treasuries" use the number of coins minted to come up with the value per coin.

That means all the DeVCoins you have already minted, and probably even also all or most of those that will be minted in the next month or so, are all accounted for in that computed value; it is the value at which the "treasury" could buy every single DeVCoin minted so far and some that are still to be minted in the next little while.

Furthermore there is also at least one Slush Fund over and above the actual "treasury", so actually more DeVCoins than actually exist could be bought up at the calculated value.

So there is NO PROBLEM "backing" all the DeVCoins being minted. Go ahead and mint at the normal rate and sell them or donate them to the DVC Slush Fund in return for anything they happen to have on hand, or try to work out some kind of multi-step deal whereby they and you adjust what you hold in some way that arrives at you each having something to trade with one-another.

In effect you are not the only devcoin foundation, there can be many of them, but just the one single "treasury" all by itself accounts for the computed value of a DeVCoin in the "Latest Rates" include-file, a value that applies to each and every individual DeVCoin from the first one minted through the last one minted.

And by the way, "Traxo" has built a lovely tool for manipulating the "Latest Rates", take a look: https://latestrates.traxo.me/?from=IXC&to=I0C

That example URL he gave me happens to be one that shows the relative values of IXC and I0C according to the "Latest Rates".

You can use the page to relate any two of the assets. You can use it to find each "pair" on InterStellar's site, and you can use it to re-write the Latest Rates in terms of any arbitrary value you type in, so that for example if you decide that some asset XXX happens to be worth YYY you can get all the Rates priced in XXX by entering YYY as the arbitrary conversion number.

-MarkM-