While you waste your time for slogans: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264696.msg3033042#msg3033042"We are planning to tapeout 1500TH+ chips in Sep(i,e, the 2nd batch of 1st gen chips of btcgarden. The 1st batch of 250TH of 1st gen chips will be in hand soon and will be deployed in china as you might knew) ,all of these 1500TH will be in hand in the mid of Nov," Bye bye ROI... You're right, their ROI will be fucked by KNC shipping. |
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Why is he not disclosing his identity? Are you joking or misinformed, right? Nobody sane would order a consumer product from a random, anonymous guy with a webpage a some posts on a forum .
Nope, he's not disclosing his identity! I cannot figure for the life of me why anyone's interested at all. |
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Competition time!
We have a new challenge for you. We require a slogan for our controller board and we have 48 hours to make up our minds. You may remember we made a couple of minor mishaps with our Mars board. On our original Mars PCBs we printed: Bitcoins make the world go around! (Grammer is not our area of expertise, chip design is). So we have chosen to open this part of the design process to those following us on this forum. This is your chance to be immortalised in Bitcoin tech history. Please design the phrase you wish to see. There is still a space for one sentence on our boards. The 48 hours start now. Competition ends at 5.30pm (local time). We will decide the winning entrant which will then be seen on all our hardware; Jupiter, Saturn and Mercury.
Thanks,
KnCMiner team.
Well, your original slogan was good, let's just clean it up a bit: - Bitcoin makes the world go 'round! Others: - Bitcoin is freedom. - If money talks then bitcoin is a song! - The lack of bitcoin is the root of all evil. - A penny saved is a bitcoin earned. - Bitcoin doesn't grow on trees. |
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So basically the total limit of BTC that can be mined in 24 hours is enough to cover the power costs of 328.28PH/s miners if electricity costs 0.15USD per kWh.
Hopefully that is correct.
So the hardware is free, yes? No one has to factor in ROI? Okay. |
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The first 50-100 orders can be under an escrow agreement just before dispatch if we do decide to go down that route.
So once you have product stocked and are ready to ship you will no longer be doing escrow-only now--apart from these first 50-100, correct? You'll take either BTC, bank deposits, or credit card purchases directly, yes? |
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What they have said is that they want to protect their customers' investment, correct? The way I see it, lowering their prices is protecting their market share A lowered price allows you to ROI even though the difficulty has gone up. That's fair both to the buyer and their market share. |
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Wow.. Just Freaking Wow..
So glad I got out just in the nick of time..
Market & Hardware Parameters
KnCMiner
Jupiter
1
Hardware Values
Hash Rate (GH/s)
Power Use (W)
Cost of Hardware
($)
Initial Mining Date
2013
October
Additional Costs
Shipping Costs
Misc Costs (psu, cables, etc)
Pool Fee (%)
Network Stats
Current Difficulty (MM)
Difficulty Increase / Month
(%)
Conversion and Electricity
Conversion Rate ($/BTC)
Conversion Increase / Month (%)
Electricity Costs ($/kWh)
Mining Payout Scheduleby The Genesis Block
USD
Display Currency
Share your analysis:
Break Even Period: 140 days Total Fixed Costs: $7250
Max Profit: $361 (May-14) - 4.97% Monthly Power Costs: $60.5
Month Difficulty (MM) Time per
Block (days) Monthly Revenue Monthly
Profit Cumulative
Return
Oct-13 204 25 $3,530 $3,470 $(3,780)
Nov-13 358 45 $2,010 $1,950 $(1,830)
Dec-13 631 78 $1,140 $1,080 $(749)
Jan-14 1110 138 $648 $588 $(161)
Feb-14 1954 243 $368 $308 $146
Mar-14 3439 427 $209 $149 $295
Apr-14 6053 752 $119 $58 $353
May-14 10654 1324 $68 $7 $361
Jun-14 18751 2330 $38 $-22 $338
Jul-14 33002 4101 $22 $-39 $300
Aug-14 58083 7218 $12 $-48 $252
Sep-14 102226 12704 $7 $-53 $198
Just to put your absurd calculations to reality. January Difficulty of 1110M would be 7 Petahash (7000TH) You're next calculation of February shows that close to doubling at 13 Petahash (13,000TH) Then if we move on to the next absurd calculation of March at around 25 Petahash (25,000TH) you start to see how retarded using a % calculation becomes. Now for some more perspective! 7 Petahash = 17,500 Jupiters = 70,000 Packages = 280,000 ASIC Chips (Remember each one of KnC's Packages has 4 "Chips" inside) Are you starting to see how unbelievable your calculations are now? If for some reason it did get to 7 Petahashes with all the other vendors coming online, do you honestly think it will go to 13 in a Month? and then 25 the next month? Do you think anyone will buy a machine for $5,000 in January when it is making $300/month and dropping? *Mind Blown* Exactly. People bailing over obviously impossible difficulty rates are math-challenged. I expect the diff to level off at around 400 mill or so. The latest jump is because Avalon shipped B2 and B3 within a month of each other. I think we, with ROI'd Jupiters, will be very lucky people indeed, for we may grab a large chunk of the network hash-rate that might not be challenge for the next couple years if the price remains below $200. |
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You don't know that, you have no idea what the BTC price will be at the end of September, nobody does.
The BTC price doesn't matter very much. It only affects the price of electricity in Bitcoins. Otherwise, everything else stays the same. You do the ROI calculation in Bitcoins you compare buying a miner to buying Bitcoins directly. Only if you want to distort the calculation, KCNminer price their products in $USD not BTC therefore the ROI must also be calculated in USD. Not so. You translate the cost of your miner in USD to what it would've cost you to buy the same BTC amount the day you paid for it. When I bought my jupiter the price of BTC was $130, so I paid a lot less than some of you because the miner is priced in dollars, and that wednesday the price crashed from 130 to <$100. Faster ROI for me. You actually should be viewing all profit and ROI in BTC terms to know if you would've been better off just holding BTC. So far, the numbers say that isn't true. You're making a BTC profit owning a Jupiter, and it's not yet quite tight. All these other manufacturers, however, are in for a rude awakening after KNC ships. |
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I took the above KNC quote to mean they don't plan on releasing product during Dec/Jan/Feb to help keep the skyrocketing hashrate down and thereby help customer's ROI UNLESS their competitors release large quantities during those months. Which is almost guaranteed to happen. Am I off base?
That's not my read, no. Under no circumstance will they be selling products in dec/jan/feb. Haha! What part of "IF" in the following sentence you don't understand? "We would like to state that ****IF***** any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network.ThanksKnCMiner Team " So they WILL if competitors add large amounts of hashing power in those months. Nothing to debate. A. They don't have full command of English so you have to do a bit of interpretation. B. The statement isn't that clear in the first place. It's obvious given the full context of all the communication KNC has given us so far that they intend not to ship product in dec/jan/fed and the statement that if competitors ship new products is intended to be connected to the price of their Nov products and has nothing to do with shipping products after in that three month period. Shipping then doesn't help anyone. And they plan to use that time to build their gen 2 device for shipping in march. So, if competitors ship tons of hardware, they'll simply lower the price of their miner in Nov and possibly even Oct so that you'll be able to ROI. It has literally nothing to do with whether they'll ship product in Dec-feb. Trust me, this is the correct understanding. Don't even take my word for it, just wait and watch it happen. |
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I took the above KNC quote to mean they don't plan on releasing product during Dec/Jan/Feb to help keep the skyrocketing hashrate down and thereby help customer's ROI UNLESS their competitors release large quantities during those months. Which is almost guaranteed to happen. Am I off base?
That's not my read, no. Under no circumstance will they be selling products in dec/jan/feb. |
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doesnt mention what you are talking about in there....
" We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network" You might have to find the conversations that surrounded this announcement. This is worded poorly, but by this it seems from later statements that they meant two things, that they will cease shipping devices from December through March, and that their October and November devices will be priced to meet the competition. They later announced a November price cut, so that's in line with that statement. |
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The name "Baby Jet" is actually from one of the founder's kids. He named his daughter "Jet" and she's currently a baby.
That's really cute  |
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KNC's "miner protection program" is simple: they'll ship on time.
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Still no photos of the chip.is impossible to have it work at September
Unphotographed chips are perfectly capable of running, believe it or not. We were not promised, and I do not expect, photos of the chips. Since they will be sent straight from China to their assembler. In China. Most likely. Here, put your money where your whining is: http://bitbet.us/bet/472/kncminer-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-october-1st/Oh yes, please keep doing that. I have one of the earliest yes bets :-D If 'yes' wins we'll triple our money |
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If we don't hear from them in a day or so it's likely the scam is complete.
The scam may never have involved our BTC at all. Maybe it was an investor scam, where he simply wanted to show millions of dollars in pre-orders to take someone's money and now he's gone. Who knows.
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Still no photos of the chip.is impossible to have it work at September
Unphotographed chips are perfectly capable of running, believe it or not. We were not promised, and I do not expect, photos of the chips. Since they will be sent straight from China to their assembler. In China. Most likely. Here, put your money where your whining is: http://bitbet.us/bet/472/kncminer-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-october-1st/ |
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EU date = DD-MM-YYYY
US date = MM-DD-YYYY
No, I'm saying in the top part it's one way, in the bottom the other. |
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(...)
If 1 trillion diff corresponds to $42k price for BTC, what BTC price of $110 corresponds to which diff?
That should give us the end-point of difficulty leveling off and should also tell us roughly when to expect that to finish levelling.
≃2.6 billion diff = ways to go. That'll take about 14 difficulty adjustments at 30% each. I think we'll reach that by end of this year. Not a chance. |
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