Thanks for the post Jutarul (and zefir).
When you say "gen4 is coming along according to schedule", can you shed any light regarding what that schedule is? What phase is the design of gen4 chips in? When is "tape out" expected? When are the first samples expected to be received by AM for testing?
As long as there is no clear guidance on information policy, I have to defer to FC in answering those questions. That said - I don't have the data you're asking for ( other than the tape out date). Is that info allowed for public release? I think he said fairly clearly that he has not received the go-ahead from FC to be able to release that information. He also said very clearly that the had the gen 4 tape-out date.  |
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Could also very well be! My guess is that FC didn't anticipate the continuing price drop we're currently observing. He has to pay for FIAT spendings with the mining income, after all! If gen 4 is working out great so far, he might very well be focusing on that now.
Depending on the chip sales and the denomination of the currency used, AM might have plenty of fiat to see them through such periods without needing to convert bitcoins at low prices to pay the bills. |
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I'm doing some comparisons between miners and would like to calculate the costs of the SP31 without the PSUs as most of the competition don't include PSUs in their offerings. Could you tell me what PSUs are in those SP31s? If not, could you give a rough estimate for the cost of the 2 PSUs if you were to buy them on Newegg for example?
Basically, I want to know the cost of the SP31s minus the cost of PSUs.
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even at 50% off these are way more expensive per MH then competition
or am i doing some math wrong?
I just compared them to the fastest products listed on the GAW website. GAW Efficiency: 33.333 J/Mh Cost per Mh: 13.888 USD per Mh/s Value: 462.932 action $ per Mh^2 (Yeah, I'm just making these units up) Innosilicon Efficiency: 8.837 J/Mh Cost per Mh: 40.697 USD per Mh/s Value: 359.649 action $ per Mh^2 Zeusminer Efficiency: 22.5 J/Mh Cost per Mh: 21.498 USD per Mh/s Value: 483.694 action $ per Mh^2 AlcheMiner Efficiency: 8.594 J/Mh Cost per Mh: 25.391 USD per Mh/s Value: 218.201 action $ per Mh^2 (action = joule * second) As you can see from the above numbers, AlcheMiner have the most efficient ASICs out of the bunch with Innosilicon having a similar efficiency. AlcheMiner costs far less per Mh/s though. My multiplying the efficiency and cost per Mh/s together you get the "Value" of the ASIC and Alcheminer destroys the listed competition in that regard. I don't follow the Scrypt mining scene so I'm not sure what ASICs are available now. What competition were you comparing them too? |
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If someone offers good money for a sig campaign and daily payments, why not? People should do their own due diligence about the ads they see in the signatures of other members.
If you know that they're running a ponzi scam and will be ripping people off, what makes you think that they won't we ripping you off as well. |
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While there may be some increase in the value of a bitcoin by 2016 it is obvious no one currently expects much of a rise. If people were certain BTC value will rise they would be frantically buying every coin they can get. This is not happening.
Alternatively, that's the most likely period to see a big increase in value due to supply of new bitcoins being halved. |
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Yeah, but chips already sold for about $0.35/GH/s in early June, so we're not achieving those prices anymore! But given the trouble with gen 3, we indeed may see gen 4 much earlier than initially planned. We could see sample chips in late October if this is true!
Source for the sales price of $0.35/G in early June, please? 1.9 CNY are about $0.31 at the current market rate. These chips were offered for delivery in mid/late June. That's no more a valid source than some guy on Craig's list. For crying out loud, it's an ad in the classifieds. What we do actually know is that on the 5th of June, FC stated that the average selling price of chips was 0.5$/G. |
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"If"s don't move anything. Money move stuff.
And AM have been making money by self-mining and by selling chips and miners. We know they had 60 Ph/s and they were selling chips for around 0.5 $/G. 1) On the Balance Sheet, approximately how many chips does the current Inventory (Products + Materials + Masks) represent?
A little less than 60P of wafers, most of which are on their final stages of production. The materials consist mainly of lead frames for packaging. The mask is re-usable for years if there are continuing demands for the corresponding wafers. 10) What is the average selling price of AM gen3 chips (price per Gh/s)?
About 0.5$/G for sold chips. 20) What are the future plans and visions of Asicminer? We could use that to establish an upper limit of 30 million USD. With a mask cost of around 3 million USD, AM could pay for it through 6 Ph/s of chip sales. Given the sales of miners as well, I don't think AM will have much to worry about with regards to funding gen 4. With BE300 correcting the mistakes of BE200 and being pin compatible with BE200, the roll-out of BE300 will be far quicker and cost less too. Quite a few manufacturers already have experience with BE200 and a well performing BE300 would be very tempting to them. The production infrastructure for building miners would already be there as well and allow rapid deployment of miners for sale and self-mining. Overall, it should be a very smooth and profitable transition if the chips perform anywhere near as well as expected. |
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I really don't know about gen 4's tape-out. It would be a truly amazing thing, that's for certain, but I don't think that gen 4 is as that stage already. Where did we get those information from, after all? Who gave us those information?
Here's what we know from FC about gen 4: 6) What is the progress on gen4?
It is 28nm and has two major improvements: the first one is to fix the design errors we had with 40nm (which made our silicon data two times worse than simulated data). We believe that 0.35W/G at rated speed of 400MHz would be achievable in 40nm if no mistakes were made before. The second one is the technology improvement from 40nm to 28nm in terms of density, speed and power. We are on the stage of evaluating the final design choices by running the physical design flow on different settings. 4) The next gen chips, BE300, are likely to be compatible with BE200 with respect to pinouts and package. Therefore all efforts on BE200 based designs are always useful in the long term.
And here's some translated info from the salon: "Sales team committed to improving the situation of information dissemination. Will be more open."
"Prices are 3xxxx, count force> 1t. My god."
"be300 conservative says the year. May advance."
"Calculate the force said the average rate for the year is 15-20% of the whole network. This is the goal"
"I hope to resume dividend in August."
"Invoices, haha" - wat?
And then we had this rumour: I heard that the 28nm chip will tape-out in 8 days.
A tape-out some time in the next month doesn't seem that unreasonable to me and it pretty much needs to be within the next 2 months for AM to have any chance of producing gen 4 hardware this year. |
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I'd actually get if FC opted to accept VC money and gives a s certain return on a 'per contract' base, but I agree that diluting our current 400000 shares would be against the contract and contrary to the initial IPO promise!
If FC sold all the chips then he should have at least 10 million easily. How much VC money were you thinking of and what would FC use it for? |
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I heard that the 28nm chip will tape-out in 8 days.
And I heard that the 14nm chip taped out yesterday!! To the moon!!!! It was said at that "salon" thing that BE300 would be here by the end of the year and that this was a conservative estimate. Given that, why are you so surprised to learn that it may be taping out next week? That would seem to be right on schedule and yet you act like FC just announced that he can perform miracles. |
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I think you know the counter to that argument - if you believe bitcoin will go to the moon, just hodl bitcoin.
As for whether ASICMINER will ever return 0.17 btc over the rest of its lifetime, that's a bet that havelock traders are currently split on.
Traders don't care about lifetime profits. They don't even care about company profits at all. They care about making profit on their trades |
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For the believers in "patience" here, those saying that AM will eventually deliver a profit, honest question:
What is your criteria for when you will no longer believe this? What evidence would make you cut your losses and run? A length of time that passes with no news or no dividend? A certain point in the share price? The failure of gen 4 to materialize in 2015? Or is it a matter of eternal unquestioning belief unless friedcat comes out and says that he is calling it quits?
Your questions don't really make much sense because AM delivered a profit long ago. Share price at IPO was 0.1 BTC/share and 0.60289304 BTC/share has been paid out in dividends. |
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If you don't know the difference between stock price and value, you better stay away from investments.
It's pretty crazy how many people don't seem to understand this difference and think that the share price represents the value of AM. It's even more mind boggling considering that the majority of shares are not even available on exchanges. |
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I thought I'd look into this 1% PPS pool because it seemed interesting, but upon looking into it, its no longer PPS, it was like two years ago. It now does SMPPS;
"Reward system changed to SMPPS
We are changing reward system to SMPPS (Shared Maximum Pay Per Share). It's same like PPS (Pay Per Share), but mining pool will never pays more than it earns. This is for protect against the loss of profitability of our mining pool. "
So that was disappointing. Eligius would be better would it not? 0% fee.
Eligius doesn't use PPS either. It now uses CPPSRB (Capped Pay per Share with Recent Backpay). |
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Still waiting for some proofs/reasons of AM being king and ruling all over everyone else.
Nobody claimed that AM is "king and ruling all over everyone else" so who are you waiting for to provide this proof? |
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After AM ordered those 60PH chips they were out of liquidity. Since we don't know how much they sold (I'm assuming ~20-30PH) we don't know how much money do they have for self mining deployment, but take note that money are needed for gen4 too in the same time!
You don't seem to know anything at all about what's going on with AM yet seem pretty certain that they're doing poorly. That's called pulling shit out of your arse and it's why people here don't like you. Also, is paying for gen 4 supposed to be a bad thing or something? Like I said a while back, I'd be very happy to learn that FC had paid for the gen 4 mask and a batch of chips already. The sooner gen 4 arrives, the better. |
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He is expecting facts from me, but he isn't sharing any!
I did share a fact. That AM had 60 Ph/s worth of BE200 ASICs. Edit: Here is a fact Mabsark: Actually with the 3 big builders ; bitmaintech,bitfury,knc there must be over 100ph self mining. Here is one miner that is stating the big players. Show me a non-shareholder who thinks AM is a big player when it comes to self-mining and to consumer sales. I also invite you to the Hardware section to check with miners there what do they think about AM. When did opinions become facts?  There isn't a single fact in that paragraph. |
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Please contradict my shit with real world facts. Where is AM now in the mining world? AM is a small player when it comes to self mining and when it comes to consumer business. They had/have some business 2 business contracts, but nothing big. Does AM compare to Bitfury, KnC, BITMAIN? I don't think so. Again, if you can contradict me with real world facts please do, but if you plan to just insult me then just don't bother replying.
I always do. Just like I did then. You want to bring that up? Sure. Let's bring the 60PH/s of chips issue again to discussion. At 0.5$/GH you need 120M$ just for the miners, not counting the deployment costs if you do it on a large scale and I find really hard to believe that there are so much money flowing into mining with this exchange rates and in such short amount of time.
Well, what else do we know about AM apart from that? We know that they sold some of that 60 Ph/s as chips and we know that they've sold some as miners, so obviously there isn't going to be a 60 Ph/s mine. They're the known facts. Look, you can't claim that you have no idea how much hashing power AM is mining with and then claim they are small potatoes and present that as a fact. That is not a fact, that is simply your assumption. In other words, just bullshit you are pulling out your arse. In order for you to claim that as a fact, you would need to know how much hashing power AM has and then compare that to the other players. If AM had a lot of self mining hashing power they would brag about it right away. Why don't you add all the known big miners along with the public pools to see how much is left for AM. Put Bitfury at 50%, KnC at 5-10%, BITMAIN can't remember and so on. There is not a single reason for AM to hide their hashpower unless it was really small. If you know a better one please share.
More assumptions. Come back when you actually know what a fact is. |
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Why do you or AM shareholder in general think that I have a lot of hate towards AM?
Because you keep making up shit about AM and try to pass it off as facts. What's the speed of AM self mining? Nobody knows. What's the speed of Bitfury's self mining? Nobody knows, but it's the highest % of the network. These are the big boys. AM is just playing in the sand at this moment.
So, you admit you have no idea how much hashing power AM are mining with then proceed to call them little kids playing in the sand. The only thing you do know is that they had 60 Ph/s worth of BE200 ASICs back in June. That's almost 1/3 of the network hash rate today. Clearly small potatoes.  |
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