ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[RoadStress]

Why do you or AM shareholder in general think that I have a lot of hate towards AM?

Because you keep making up shit about AM and try to pass it off as facts.

Please contradict my shit with real world facts. Where is AM now in the mining world? AM is a small player when it comes to self mining and when it comes to consumer business. They had/have some business 2 business contracts, but nothing big. Does AM compare to Bitfury, KnC, BITMAIN? I don't think so. Again, if you can contradict me with real world facts please do, but if you plan to just insult me then just don't bother replying.

What's the speed of AM self mining? Nobody knows. What's the speed of Bitfury's self mining? Nobody knows, but it's the highest % of the network. These are the big boys. AM is just playing in the sand at this moment.

So, you admit you have no idea how much hashing power AM are mining with then proceed to call them little kids playing in the sand. The only thing you do know is that they had 60 Ph/s worth of BE200 ASICs back in June. That's almost 1/3 of the network hash rate today.

Clearly small potatoes.  [/quote]

You want to bring that up? Sure. Let's bring the 60PH/s of chips issue again to discussion. At 0.5$/GH you need 120M$ just for the miners, not counting the deployment costs if you do it on a large scale and I find really hard to believe that there are so much money flowing into mining with this exchange rates and in such short amount of time.

If AM had a lot of self mining hashing power they would brag about it right away. Why don't you add all the known big miners along with the public pools to see how much is left for AM. Put Bitfury at 50%, KnC at 5-10%, BITMAIN can't remember and so on. There is not a single reason for AM to hide their hashpower unless it was really small. If you know a better one please share.

[Mabsark]

Please contradict my shit with real world facts. Where is AM now in the mining world? AM is a small player when it comes to self mining and when it comes to consumer business. They had/have some business 2 business contracts, but nothing big. Does AM compare to Bitfury, KnC, BITMAIN? I don't think so. Again, if you can contradict me with real world facts please do, but if you plan to just insult me then just don't bother replying.

I always do. Just like I did then.

You want to bring that up? Sure. Let's bring the 60PH/s of chips issue again to discussion. At 0.5$/GH you need 120M$ just for the miners, not counting the deployment costs if you do it on a large scale and I find really hard to believe that there are so much money flowing into mining with this exchange rates and in such short amount of time.

Well, what else do we know about AM apart from that? We know that they sold  some of that 60 Ph/s as chips and we know that they've sold some as miners, so obviously there isn't going to be a 60 Ph/s mine. They're the known facts. Look, you can't claim that you have no idea how much hashing power AM is mining with and then claim they are small potatoes and present that as a fact. That is not a fact, that is simply your assumption. In other words, just bullshit you are pulling out your arse. In order for you to claim that as a fact, you would need to know how much hashing power AM has and then compare that to the other players.

If AM had a lot of self mining hashing power they would brag about it right away. Why don't you add all the known big miners along with the public pools to see how much is left for AM. Put Bitfury at 50%, KnC at 5-10%, BITMAIN can't remember and so on. There is not a single reason for AM to hide their hashpower unless it was really small. If you know a better one please share.

More assumptions. Come back when you actually know what a fact is.

[RoadStress]

Please contradict my shit with real world facts. Where is AM now in the mining world? AM is a small player when it comes to self mining and when it comes to consumer business. They had/have some business 2 business contracts, but nothing big. Does AM compare to Bitfury, KnC, BITMAIN? I don't think so. Again, if you can contradict me with real world facts please do, but if you plan to just insult me then just don't bother replying.

I always do. Just like I did then.

Care to refresh my memory?

You want to bring that up? Sure. Let's bring the 60PH/s of chips issue again to discussion. At 0.5$/GH you need 120M$ just for the miners, not counting the deployment costs if you do it on a large scale and I find really hard to believe that there are so much money flowing into mining with this exchange rates and in such short amount of time.

Well, what else do we know about AM apart from that? We know that they sold  some of that 60 Ph/s as chips and we know that they've sold some as miners, so obviously there isn't going to be a 60 Ph/s mine. They're the known facts. Look, you can't claim that you have no idea how much hashing power AM is mining with and then claim they are small potatoes and present that as a fact. That is not a fact, that is simply your assumption. In other words, just bullshit you are pulling out your arse. In order for you to claim that as a fact, you would need to know how much hashing power AM has and then compare that to the other players.

More assumptions. Come back when you actually know what a fact is.

So you managed to trash me again, but you gave 0 real life facts to prove your statements. Please show me facts, not trashing. We all know that Bitfury was the one to get close to the 50% mining hash power. What do we know about AM? Nothing. And yet you still think they are a big player in the mining world...ok. I won't bother replying to you because it's a yes-no-yes-no game especially from your side. Come with real facts or proofs and then we can talk. Until then AM is a small potato in the mining world. Remember that I will donate 0.5BTC when AM will(IF) reach 15% of the total hashing power. I am willing to up my donation to 1 BTC if you put some money in the middle.

[NotLambchop]

...
More assumptions. Come back when you actually know what a fact is.

Guys!  Facts are definitely at a premium here.  Just about the only irrefutable fact we have is the current market price: ฿0.1705 on heavy volume.
Allow me to be the first to congratulate you for ignoring me, Mabsark.  Again.  Much to the same results.

[RoadStress]

...
More assumptions. Come back when you actually know what a fact is.

Guys!  Facts are definitely at a premium here.  Just about the only irrefutable fact we have is the current market price: ฿0.1705 on heavy volume.
Allow me to be the first to congratulate you for ignoring me, Mabsark.  Again.  Much to the same results.

He is expecting facts from me, but he isn't sharing any! I still don't understand why are the shareholders so biased or so blind? I thought that people investing money have a larger idea of everything in general, but here I see only people with horse glasses.

Edit: Here is a fact Mabsark:

Actually with the 3  big builders ;  bitmaintech,bitfury,knc  there must be over 100ph self mining.

Here is one miner that is stating the big players. Show me a non-shareholder who thinks AM is a big player when it comes to self-mining and to consumer sales. I also invite you to the Hardware section to check with miners there what do they think about AM.

[hdbuck]

Guys!  Facts are definitely at a premium here.  Just about the only irrefutable fact we have is the current market price: ฿0.1705 on heavy volume.
Allow me to be the first to congratulate you for ignoring me, Mabsark.  Again.  Much to the same results.

He is expecting facts from me, but he isn't sharing any! I still don't understand why are the shareholders so biased or so blind? I thought that people investing money have a larger idea of everything in general, but here I see only people with horse glasses.

2 words: long term

edit: (Bonus) 2 words : shill down

[jimmothy]

Let's bring the 60PH/s of chips issue again to discussion. At 0.5$/GH you need 120M$ just for the miners,

That's not how math works.

If they wanted to build a 30PH farm at $0.35/gh they would only need $10,500,000.

[RoadStress]

Let's bring the 60PH/s of chips issue again to discussion. At 0.5$/GH you need 120M$ just for the miners,

That's not how math works.

If they wanted to build a 30PH farm at $0.35/gh they would only need $10,500,000.

Whoops! Math mistake. It's 30M, not 120M.

As for the 10M$ that is only for miners. What about deployment costs? Does AM has 10M$ to deploy that hashpower? Don't think so. Even if they did and they took this route that means there will be no more money to start gen4 chips and they will need to wait to mine something and that takes time which means a slower gen4 release. No scenario seems to be a good one for AM in their current position. Got a better one? Please share.

[Mabsark]

He is expecting facts from me, but he isn't sharing any!

I did share a fact. That AM had 60 Ph/s worth of BE200 ASICs.

Edit: Here is a fact Mabsark:

Actually with the 3  big builders ;  bitmaintech,bitfury,knc  there must be over 100ph self mining.

Here is one miner that is stating the big players. Show me a non-shareholder who thinks AM is a big player when it comes to self-mining and to consumer sales. I also invite you to the Hardware section to check with miners there what do they think about AM.

When did opinions become facts?   There isn't a single fact in that paragraph.

[jjdub7]

He is expecting facts from me, but he isn't sharing any!

I did share a fact. That AM had 60 Ph/s worth of BE200 ASICs.

60 PH/s of chips on hand.  So these little dollars-and-cents-per-chip arguments are trivial since the chip costs are already cleared in the books.  Electric bill for deployment comes at the end of the month.  Mining with GHash (if that's been the case) would've been safest to minimize variance to ensure that bill gets and has been getting paid.

[jimmothy]

Let's bring the 60PH/s of chips issue again to discussion. At 0.5$/GH you need 120M$ just for the miners,

That's not how math works.

If they wanted to build a 30PH farm at $0.35/gh they would only need $10,500,000.

Whoops! Math mistake. It's 30M, not 120M.

As for the 10M$ that is only for miners. What about deployment costs? Does AM has 10M$ to deploy that hashpower? Don't think so.

I actually made a math mistake. I was including the chip cost at $0.35/gh but forgot the chips are already paid for so it would be less than that.

AM might only need ~$6M to produce 30PH worth of hardware and maybe ~$2M to deploy it all.

[RoadStress]

60 PH/s of chips on hand.  So these little dollars-and-cents-per-chip arguments are trivial since the chip costs are already cleared in the books.  Electric bill for deployment comes at the end of the month.  Mining with GHash (if that's been the case) would've been safest to minimize variance to ensure that bill gets and has been getting paid.

After AM ordered those 60PH chips they were out of liquidity. Since we don't know how much they sold (I'm assuming ~20-30PH) we don't know how much money do they have for self mining deployment, but take note that money are needed for gen4 too in the same time!

Also while electric bill comes at the end of the month there are other bills that you have to pay before you start mining and that is the rest of the hardware needed for miners plus the DC deployment. Also buying large quantities of components for miners usually take a bit of time to arrive and that doesn't help the self mining at all if they were ordered after they sold chips.

[jjdub7]

60 PH/s of chips on hand.  So these little dollars-and-cents-per-chip arguments are trivial since the chip costs are already cleared in the books.  Electric bill for deployment comes at the end of the month.  Mining with GHash (if that's been the case) would've been safest to minimize variance to ensure that bill gets and has been getting paid.

After AM ordered those 60PH chips they were out of liquidity. Since we don't know how much they sold (I'm assuming ~20-30PH) we don't know how much money do they have for self mining deployment, but take note that money are needed for gen4 too in the same time!

Also while electric bill comes at the end of the month there are other bills that you have to pay before you start mining and that is the rest of the hardware needed for miners plus the DC deployment. Also buying large quantities of components for miners usually take a bit of time to arrive and that doesn't help the self mining at all if they were ordered after they sold chips.

Do you know how much DC contracting costs for an operation this size, from wiring and meet-me rooms to ISP fees and WAN maintenance costs?  Do you know the costs FC's contracted for any custom-built hardware used for mining?  You're assuming they sold 20-30PH of chips?  Including those they sold to their affiliates and franchisees along with the tubes?

Damn, man, you must have some special privileged access to AM's books or be financially clairvoyant.  Why are you wasting your time here?  You and NotLambchop should just skip the little league here and set up shop on Wall St.  Surely you'd make a better return on trading real equities instead of the chump change listed within these shadowy forum threads.

[Mabsark]

After AM ordered those 60PH chips they were out of liquidity. Since we don't know how much they sold (I'm assuming ~20-30PH) we don't know how much money do they have for self mining deployment, but take note that money are needed for gen4 too in the same time!

You don't seem to know anything at all about what's going on with AM yet seem pretty certain that they're doing poorly. That's called pulling shit out of your arse and it's why people here don't like you. Also, is paying for gen 4 supposed to be a bad thing or something? Like I said a while back, I'd be very happy to learn that FC had paid for the gen 4 mask and a batch of chips already. The sooner gen 4 arrives, the better.

[RoadStress]

Do you know how much DC contracting costs for an operation this size, from wiring and meet-me rooms to ISP fees and WAN maintenance costs?  Do you know the costs FC's contracted for any custom-built hardware used for mining?  You're assuming they sold 20-30PH of chips?  Including those they sold to their affiliates and franchisees along with the tubes?

Damn, man, you must have some special privileged access to AM's books or be financially clairvoyant.  Why are you wasting your time here?  You and NotLambchop should just skip the little league here and set up shop on Wall St.  Surely you'd make a better return on trading real equities instead of the chump change listed within these shadowy forum threads.

I don't know the costs, but I know that the electrical stuff is expensive and I'm thinking that electrical stuff for 40MW must be a bit expensive.

Since FC doesn't want to share anything then I can only assume yes. And I got my numbers by looking at the big chinese farms. Hashratio(4PH?), RockMiner etc. It seems that I am paying more attention than you as shareholders. At least I am trying to figure stuff with what piece of information I can get, while you as shareholders only wait for FC statements and nothing else.

[jjdub7]

Do you know how much DC contracting costs for an operation this size, from wiring and meet-me rooms to ISP fees and WAN maintenance costs?  Do you know the costs FC's contracted for any custom-built hardware used for mining?  You're assuming they sold 20-30PH of chips?  Including those they sold to their affiliates and franchisees along with the tubes?

Damn, man, you must have some special privileged access to AM's books or be financially clairvoyant.  Why are you wasting your time here?  You and NotLambchop should just skip the little league here and set up shop on Wall St.  Surely you'd make a better return on trading real equities instead of the chump change listed within these shadowy forum threads.

I don't know the costs, but I know that the electrical stuff is expensive and I'm thinking that electrical stuff for 40MW must be a bit expensive.

Since FC doesn't want to share anything then I can only assume yes. And I got my numbers by looking at the big chinese farms. Hashratio(4PH?), RockMiner etc. It seems that I am paying more attention than you as shareholders. At least I am trying to figure stuff with what piece of information I can get, while you as shareholders only wait for FC statements and nothing else.

Yes, the chip numbers are up in the air, but remember that they include sales to Rockminer, BTCgarden, HR - many of whom assemble and resell miners across the customer segments I mentioned this morning in addition to mining on their own or as franchisees.  Ergo, the entire 60 PH isn't necessarily coming from ASICMINER alone, but rather its now been split both vertically and horizontally across the transfer (chip) and miner markets along the resale and company mining channels.

As for the DC: cabling is expensive, especially with the prices of the associated metals these days.  However, this pricing is usually included as a deferred portion of the normal fixed-fee agreements used to contract data centers.  They don't require many staff members for operations, either, so the cost to contract a DC itself is largely structured to maintain an operator's margin over depreciation within these types of commodity contracts.

Additionally, if you're trying to peg hosting costs to any large-scale fiat commercial IT operations, think again.  While most large companies have multi-module applications ranging from SAP (HR/finance/accounting) to internal marketing/sales, R&D, and metadata mgmt functions (along with the relevant databases - a key point) hosted on virtual servers (VM's), ASICMINER by comparison has to host one very simple mining application alongside a stratum proxy (which, depending on the network configuration/miner firmware combination used, may not even be necessary either).  A lion's share of these costs comes from the need to host servers on servers solely for the purpose of maintaining databases in the closed/private cloud, which mining really doesn't require on the scale of a global business's DC needs.

TL;DR: mining DC's don't cost as much as you think they do.  
- due to massive improvements in IT scalability, DC contracting has become a commodity service,
- in countries like China, where both the per capita GDP and level of regulation is less than 1/10th of what it is in the US, DC contracting costs even less
- AM doesn't need additional sites for disaster recovery/failover/redundancy
- DC requirements (rack space, even cooling needs, et al) for a mining operation pale in comparison to reference contracts used by larger global businesses
- chips/hardware scale widely to individual servers via controllers, minimizing the bulk of the assumed costs in a reference model

The point that I repeatedly feel the need to drive home is to use the DC hosting to operate a public pool with a nominal fee to both standardize pool server output and help defer the costs of running the operation.  If this is done efficiently, it would greatly contribute to profitability from both a cost reduction and marketing/product reliability perspective.

ASICMINER's value in the market is not solely derived from it's role as a chip or miner manufacturer, but rather from the degree of vertical integration which friedcat has achieved across the mining space from chip production to mining to hardware assembly.

[RoadStress]

Yes, the chip numbers are up in the air, but remember that they include sales to Rockminer, BTCgarden, HR - many of whom assemble and resell miners across the customer segments I mentioned this morning in addition to mining on their own or as franchisees.  Ergo, the entire 60 PH isn't necessarily coming from ASICMINER alone, but rather its now been split both vertically and horizontally across the transfer (chip) and miner markets along the resale and company mining channels.
...
- chips/hardware scale widely to individual servers via controllers, minimizing the bulk of the assumed costs in a reference model
...

You lost me with these 2 statements, but if the costs are so small why didn't AM start the self mining 2-3 months earlier? They had chips just sitting on shelves instead of putting them to work. I see there a big loss in revenue.

When will FC share the speed of AM self mining? When will dividends come? I have a feeling we will not see any of them in September either.

Also what's the status of gen4 development? Nobody knows, but AM is king!

[silverfuture]

garbage

Go spam your affiliate link somewhere else you unscrupulous fuck. No one likes you for good reason. You add nothing to the conversation, but that was never the point was it? Reputation might not mean much to you now, but someday soon...it will.

[RoadStress]

garbage

Go spam your affiliate link somewhere else you unscrupulous fuck. No one likes you for good reason. You add nothing to the conversation, but that was never the point was it? Reputation might not mean much to you now, but someday soon...it will.

More trashing from AM shareholders. I have developed a hard skin against you so keep it coming, but remember that it will not bring your dividends faster.

I am not the only one with an affiliate link. Aren't you aware of the Tube signature campaign? How would you feel that everyone that got an AM Tube signature was being trashed like you trash me? Would you like it? Do you find it appropriate to just trash someone for his signature instead of replying to his legitimate concerns?

I am trying to have a discussion and all you people are doing is trashing. Ok...Still waiting for some proofs/reasons of AM being king and ruling all over everyone else.

[silverfuture]

garbage

Go spam your affiliate link somewhere else you unscrupulous fuck. No one likes you for good reason. You add nothing to the conversation, but that was never the point was it? Reputation might not mean much to you now, but someday soon...it will.

more garbage

I wonder how sponjibblies would like their threads descended upon by a locust swarm of asicminer banner toting keyboard warriors? That might be kind of nice. Hmmnn