It appears gen3 is still selling and going for 1 RMB/ghash.
Where is that info from? Isn't that at or below cost? Well I was buying some chips myself and decided NOT to do it. Due to all the nonsense that gets passed around on this thread, unless you can prove what you're saying then everyone should just treat it as FUD. There's just too many fudsters trying to play the market or just simply trolling. As for the price of the chip, FC did mention it but he didn't give a specific price: Update
Next Gen Chips
The projected time of taping out of Gen3 is January 20. Power consumption target estimation is <0.2W per G on low power mode and <0.2$ per G on wafer cost. Please notice that the timeline is of course subject to change/adjust, and the estimation on power and cost is also based on software tool/simulation results.
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DISCLAIMER: I am not saying ASICMINER is a bad investment generally, I just rather invest in a running horse until this one wakes up from its slumber.
The problem with that strategy is that you don't know when the horse is going to wake from its slumber. It may have already bolted by the time you get the chance to buy back in. I'd rather just hold what I've got than play the trading game. |
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They're those competitors from Israel, right? Yeah right, I heard they were at that conference. They always played by the rules and never spread uncertainties. Why would they lie in this only case? I guess it's too hard to believe for some people that AM is really just cutting losses, selling at or slightly above cost and focus on gen4. That'll mean no divs though. I do get why people are pissed. They even ignore the offer for $0.35 on that chinese board for a June delivery.
Let's say we didn't get any divs from gen 3 and FC used the profit to pay for the gen 4 mask and chips, would that be a bad thing? When FC last answered shareholders questions he said: Brief Answers to Shareholder Questions6) What is the progress on gen4?
It is 28nm and has two major improvements: the first one is to fix the design errors we had with 40nm (which made our silicon data two times worse than simulated data). We believe that 0.35W/G at rated speed of 400MHz would be achievable in 40nm if no mistakes were made before. The second one is the technology improvement from 40nm to 28nm in terms of density, speed and power. We are on the stage of evaluating the final design choices by running the physical design flow on different settings. So gen 4 isn't far off, it does need paying for and it should be a far better chip because they've fixed the design error which led to gen 3 under-performing. I'd be very happy to learn that FC had paid for the gen 4 mask and a couple of batches already. |
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Zhao said in QQ earlier he didn't receive details about AM franchising. And everyone in China can buy BE200 at low price  Yeah, there were at least 60 PH/s that need to be cleared from stock  But do you have any idea about how low that price actually is? I didn't check the current price, but was given a price in May, from supplier that order 3ph worth. Asicminer stockholders may want to check their pacemakers and ensure they do not have history of high blood pressure. I think hashratio has rebrand their AM tube as galaxy dragonflies now But the $0.35 / GH/s back at the end of May or early June were right, weren't they? Well, here's what FC said at the beginning of June: Brief Answers to Shareholder Questions10) What is the average selling price of AM gen3 chips (price per Gh/s)?
About 0.5$/G for sold chips. |
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BTCGarden, ROCKMINER, Lightning Asics, etc. combined only account for, say 6 PH/s.
Source? Only an overly generous guess. BTCGarden managed to sell a lot, yeah. They had sold like almost a PH a month ago. let's assume they now sold 3. With all their 400 GH/s machines, ROCKMINER needs to sell like 4000 machines to achieve a single PH. Lightning Asic seems to be stagnating ever since. They even have a in-stock-counter that moves about 5 pcs/week. I doubt they sold more than 100 TH/s. Who else is there? XBTec used to be the big hope for AM. Well, they've gone silent, and only have lowered (as in 'it got worse') their consumption expectations. They really seemed to have done the trick in optimizing the BE200. I'm having a hard time reaching even those estimated 6 PH/s. And that would only account for 1/10 of those 60 PH/s  Hashratio and franchised mining seems to be the final straw. And I can't believe that FC is dictating the terms there Please show me calculations that support more chips have been sold to manufacturers! Do you not know what "source" means? It certainly doesn't mean "continue to pull information out your arse". Either provide sources to verify what your saying or stop talking shite. |
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That chart speaks for itself. Thing also is: We've seen offers for gen 3 chips at about $ 0.35 / GH/s in early June from resellers. There have been rumors at the end of June that AM sells at about cost. Yes rumors, but they've been quite believable and no one has ever proven them to be wrong. If gen 3 was actually selling well, why would FC start to resort to such a great focus on mining again, which he didn't want to do as much anymore. Is there anything to BTCGarden's post that AM is indeed working on a 28nm design or is this just common anticipation of the next generation. Oh and last but not least: The questions haven't been answered for almost a month now, that worked better with the friendly pumpkin. Whoever chased him away, shame on you!
The share price on Havelock is more representative of short term traders sentiment than it is of AM's value as a company. Where did you hear that FC started to "resort to such a great focus on mining again, which he didn't want to do as much anymore." Please provide some evidence to backup these claims. I think that would make a lot of people happy as they've been asking for precisely that. Yes AM is indeed working on a 28nm ASIC: Brief Answers to Shareholder Questions6) What is the progress on gen4?
It is 28nm and has two major improvements: the first one is to fix the design errors we had with 40nm (which made our silicon data two times worse than simulated data). We believe that 0.35W/G at rated speed of 400MHz would be achievable in 40nm if no mistakes were made before. The second one is the technology improvement from 40nm to 28nm in terms of density, speed and power. We are on the stage of evaluating the final design choices by running the physical design flow on different settings. 20) What are the future plans and visions of Asicminer?
There will be at least two generations ahead. If future Bitcoin market cap allows there can be more. As we are keeping the chip design capability to grow with state-of-the-art technology as well as good channels with fabrication we can be flexible in terms of business mode be it chip-based or device-based. |
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...
What you are basically saying is that due to the complete lack of evidence of some event occurring, that event must have occurred. That's simply illogical. That's called FUD...
Sometimes lack of evidence to the contrary constitutes evidence. Having never seen a pig flapping his wings, for instance, is evidence enough for me to make an assumption that pigs got none to flap. Not FUD. Well, given that you've never seen a pig flapping his wings because they don't have any wings to flap, do you then assume that pigs can fly? Nope. |
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Ha well, I guess it's quite safe to assume they did really sell gen 3 at cost. At least large parts of it. That being said it remains to be seen whether the self and franchised mining is going to yield anything. I doubt there'll be many divs coming from gen 3. Sad thing.
It's no more safe for you to assume that than is it for me to assume that you molester children based on the evidence your posts have provided. People like you spreading total nonsense is what's really sad. Jesus, what's wrong with you? Why would you attack him like that? We didn't even receive any response to the questions for friedcat. Gen 3 just didn't work out the way it should have. Friedcat doesn't even seem to answer people who are interested in hosting franchised equipment! Sell down and feel liberated again! There's nothing wrong with me which is why I called that bullshit out for what it was. What's wrong with you that you want people to post such FUD? There's no evidence at all to suggest that Friedcat has or is selling chips at cost. Just because Friedcat hasn't answered the questions which were sent to him, that doesn't mean AM is failing, just like FUR11 not responding to my comment doesn't make him a kiddie fiddler. What you are basically saying is that due to the complete lack of evidence of some event occurring, that event must have occurred. That's simply illogical. That's called FUD. All we know at this point is that lots of chips have been sold and no dividends have been paid out yet. |
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Ha well, I guess it's quite safe to assume they did really sell gen 3 at cost. At least large parts of it. That being said it remains to be seen whether the self and franchised mining is going to yield anything. I doubt there'll be many divs coming from gen 3. Sad thing.
It's no more safe for you to assume that than is it for me to assume that you molester children based on the evidence your posts have provided. People like you spreading total nonsense is what's really sad. |
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You can not compare AM to Apple in any way shape or form... Years in Bitcoin land are way different than in regular investments. I think that with most every Bitcoin company short term does matter quite a bit. The landscape has changed a lot since AM started.
I wasn't comparing them. I was pointing out that investments are not get rich quick schemes. AM is dedicated to providing chips for the next couple of years at least so if all you can think about is a couple of months of dividends, then that's just being short sighted and impatient. |
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After all of the discussion and speculation on the company's value and the precipitous drop in share price, I doubt many people are still confusing the two.
Well here's what you previously said: I have to assume that if the price falls all the way back down to IPO levels we will see FC make an appearance once more. Having your company lose another 50% of its value tends to motivate peoples interests.
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It seems like some people here don't understand the difference between the value of AM and the share price of AM1 on Havelock. It also seems like people are extremely short sighted and expected their shares to recoup their cost through dividends in a month or two. This is not a get rich quick scheme, it's a legitimate company with a legitimate product. If you bought some shares in Apple, would you expect to recoup your costs in a couple of months from dividends?
Peoples expectations are extremely biased based on AMs stellar performance in its first year. The question people should ask themselves is how AM will perform over the next couple of years, not months.
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I just checked the Rockminer's profitability using TradeBlock with free electricity and various rates of difficulty increase. Turns out that the increase can go as high as 60% a month and those miners will make a profit before the end of the year. That article is bullshit. |
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Here hope this shuts you up now...why would I make up some formula like that..
Yes, that's all I asked for. What he said was true, but the world doesn't owe you evidence buddy. Either believe it or not, but please don't be one of the many paranoid jack asses calling everyone a liar on here. You were wrong about your suppositions here, how often are you wrong like this when you presume - and what will you do the next time around? (hint: stfu)
I didn't call him a liar and what was I supposed to be wrong about? I didn't say he was wrong, I simply asked for proof because there's too many people spreading lies in this thread for whatever reason. What will I do next time someone makes a claim and attributes it to friedcat without any evidence? I'll ask them to provide evidence. Everyone should do that, it's just common sense. You may be gullible enough to believe every word of a random stranger on the Internet without any proof whatsoever, but I'm not. |
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There has to be a reason for no dividend even after the massive sales. Among 'investing on future plans', 'manipulating market', and other reasons, 'No profit' seems to be the much better one. The best one, and the only positive one is that 'there's no enough accountants in friedcat's company'.
The only reason for no profit would be if AM had spent it on more wafers and materials. |
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Was via messages...not a post.
Either post a screenshot then or stop talking nonsense. A screenshot is hardly evidence due to being easy to fake but it's better than nothing. This is now the third time you've been asked to back up your claims with proof. If you fail to do so, it should be evident to everyone here that you are nothing but a liar. |
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We provide: whole mining device excluding PSU.
You provide: PSU, location, operation.
On each difficulty change, you pay us:
(x - 4.59*10^(-5)*t/y)*80% in which
x = 100% PPS of 850G
y = Bitcoin exchange rate on bitstamp
t = seconds in the last round
This is per device.
4.59*10^(-5) is electricity cost per second assuming power is 0.15$/kwh and each device draws 1.1kw.
If (x - 4.59*10^(-5)*t/y)*80% is already equal to or less than zero, or after three months and you decide that the project should discontinue, you can either sell them at market price (which is agreed by us) and pay us 80% of the sold value, or ship them back to us.
After that we give the deposit back to you.
from where is that? That was per friedcat. Unless you provide a link to the post where Friedcat said that, it may as well have came straight out of a bull's arse. Use the bloody quote feature!  |
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RoadStress I've always wondered since you are a bitcoin mining tycoon, how much hashrate do you have right now? The way you talk I am sure you have to have 30-40TH/s at least? I remember awhile back you had 2 SP10s right what else do you have running? How many SP30's do you have on order now? Was trying to do some numbers because the way you make things sound the 17-19TH/s I had running 3 months ago making 1.5+ btc a day is going to be not NOTHING compared to running a single SP30. Which if I took delivery in mid July may make 2btc a jump if we don't see another jump above 11% until then.
I'm not a bitcoin mining tycoon yet, but I hope that someday I will be. The fact that I'm always present in the Mining forum helps me take the best decisions when it comes to mining hardware. Having limited amount of cash from the start gave me no room for errors and that's why I'm trying to stay informed. I started my ASIC adventure with 15 burnin boards with avalon gen1 chips, but right now they are offline. Right now I'm hashing with 3 Jupiters (1 Sep/Oct that is shared with someone else+2 Nov Jupiters), 3 SP10s (soon to be 5, but 1 will hash for ckolivas and sean's outpost) and I also have 4 SP30s on pre-order(will buy 1 or 2 more from September batch too). That makes it just 6TH/s right now, but I'm proud of how I'm staying ahead of the difficulty curve. My first SP10 doubled my total hashrate and my next 2 SP10s doubled my hashrate again. It will take some time before difficulty will catch me up and the SP30s will just give me another boots so that the difficulty won't be able to catch me. Just out of curiosity, how much BTC have each of those Jupiters mined so far? |
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Is 60P worth of wafers not healthy?
Of course it's not healthy if they won't sell. Why on earth wouldn't the most efficient ASIC available today not sell? You are either uninformed or just trolling here. How can a chip that does 1.1W/Gh be the most efficient ASIC available? In one month we will have 0.5W/GH miners while you are waiting to sell last year power efficiency chips. I have 1.1W/Gh since October from my Jupiters. Buying the same performance in June/July this year would be the equivalent of shooting myself in the foot. Unlike you, I'm neither. The chip is not 1.1 J/Gh, some miners using the chip are. ASIC != miner. AM does not sell miners, it sell chips. AM BE200 ASIC - 0.554 J/GH @ 11.52 GH/s Spondoolies Hammer ASIC - 0.58 J/Gh @ 7.5 Gh/s |
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Is 60P worth of wafers not healthy?
Of course it's not healthy if they won't sell. Why on earth wouldn't the most efficient ASIC available today not sell? |
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