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Added you to the ledger. Thanks so much
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user grnbrg has opened and dismantled his. I think his name is bryan greenberg in winnipeg canada. He has posted pics on butterfly labs site. Can he then post something in this thread? And also this does not impact the ponzi potential. Only the shipping volume will determine if BFL is legitimate. Again, they can finance the manufacturing and shipping of previous units with new orders. As long as the queue is filled, they can continue to ship. If BFL can exhaust a large chunk of their queue while staying solvent, then they are not running a ponzi scheme. I will back off if units start shipping and simply wait and see. |
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Suppose you draft and send off the letter and BFL PR never answers back? What would be next? Sue them?
Now my question:
Since they have also outsourced the procurement of ASIC chips, did they also outsource firmware development of the mining devices? This would also add delays if problems are spotted on the way. They claim to be developing the firmware in house https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-2.html. BFL has responded to nothing so far. But I'm sure an angry letter will change that! They'll read it and panic and reply immediately, I'm sure!
Or they'll ignore it and laugh while sitting on their pile of money. Stop wasting your time. The first step in initiating a class action lawsuit is usually an open letter alongside a search for victims of a company's actions. This letter will be part of the open domain and it is their choice to respond. I feel the questions are legitimate to ask and absolutely deserve to be answered. Should they ignore them, then the next step is to retain a law firm to commit to a class action suit. They will draft another query and start a victim search. From there a lawsuit will be filed concurrently with a criminal fraud complaint. This will take a great deal of my time and thus I will commit to it only if my two criteria are met: - BFL does not start shiping its production units to its queue within the next 30 days
- Independent sources verify an actual ASIC exists developed by BFL (I have not seen a single review unit opened)
I understand delays can occur within any venture; however, the nature of the delays and the way they have handled the delays has lead me to believe BFL financed the production of their ASICs using preorder money. Therefore, they may not have enough cash on hand to actually manufacture and deliver the units they are legally committed to deliver. In Ponzi schemes this is generally handled by a long queue with prior orders financed by future orders. As long as the queue is sufficiently filled, they can continue to deliver some product. Any disruption in order flow would result in a collapse of the company, which is why I am asking if they will commit to outside audit to verify this has not occurred. It is important to note that I do not have evidence of these claims. This is merely speculation from my experience in the business world and watching the BFL story unfold. I have no desire to rock the boat. But the alternative is accepting that hundreds of people on bitcointalk could have been defrauded and the media runs another hit story on how terrible bitcoins are. (If anyone in this community has received a product from BFL, then could you please verify that it is indeed to the specifications they have claimed after their most recent delay? I will drop this matter if someone can verify that the unit exists from BFL and a large volume of units are being shipped) |
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Could you post the transaction iD as well. Ill keep a ledger and create a special thanks to list
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Laugh all you want. The cost for ten million eyeballs to look at something is about 100 grand. We are getting off cheap for 10 btc
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I've been using some web bots track the popularity of that damn squrriel. One picture had nine million views
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If by ponzi scheme you mean they have funded R&D and operational expenses with pre-order money, I do not think there can be any doubt of that. But why do you think they are going to tell you that? Why would they, as it is not to their advantage and it would hurt their image. I do not understand what leverage you think you are going to have over someone that regularly belittles anyone who criticizes him and has made it obvious that he does not even have the technical knowledge to understand that some of the criticism could have saved his company money and time as it was pointing out major FLAWS in BFL's claims.
People have been warned and have bought with knowledge of the risk, let them lose their money assuming they will get out before it becomes unprofitable.
I am beginning to doubt that actually ever built a functional product. The questions I have asked will determine if this is true and also explain the persistent delays. As for leverage, an open letter is the first step in a legal process for a class action lawsuit and I will also use some of my friends in the government to pursue a consumer fraud investigation. The more public the open letter gets and the more questions that get broadcast to the open domain, the more cancellations will occur. Also if they refuse to answer basic questions regarding their operations, then it is my hope this forum will pull their ads of BFL. I am completely serious about this pursuit. We cannot allow fraud to exist in this form in our community. It would be one thing for a failed kickstarter or if a company was transparent with their failures, but it is entirely different to make bold market claims and then consistently not deliver without any explanation while continuing to take orders. |
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(aka a good faith investment in the development of product that didn't exist
This is not necessarily true. Almost all legitimate companies accept preorders only when they have a clear concept that the finished product is within some scope of completion. Delays can certainly occur, but not in the years and not so far outside spec. The wattage spec increased by an order of magnitude. This isn't something that is common from prototype to finished product unless they didn't have one when they were accepting preorders. That's fine, but they have a legal obligation to inform those ordering that their orders are going to fund the creation of a completely new product. This would be a kickstarter project. It has entered the realm of possibility that BFL is actually a ponzi scheme. We as a community need to determine this quickly. |
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I am setting up a donation drive for photos of Sugar Bush the Squirrel holding both a Bitcoin and also our course logo: http://www.sugarbushsquirrel.com/The squirrel seems to have viral appeal and would greatly help to visually market our efforts and the Bitcoin as well. We need 10 BTC to get both photos. Photos will be released to the open domain for all to use: Donate to the Sugar Fund: 189tfJJhCJFtkr4MZJgcB3yuGTfUh7cvUL Top Reasons to Donate: - By connecting Bitcoin to a meme, we can increase awareness and bring more into our community
- Sugar Bush can help promote the crowdsourced bitcoin course creating more exposure and incentive for people to learn about Bitcoin
- You'll be financially support a crazy lady who dresses up dead squirrels in patriotic ways
--------------------------------- [Currently Raised: 0.0787951 BTC ] [ BTC Left for Goal: 9.92012049 ] --------------------------------- Donation Ledger: ac00c1611ad8d651ab6cb5dc1771f385253287c63d5e7e601452d78985281e77 -] Birdy {0.029506 BTC aaa181155a12b77dcd6ee9126f333cb6f229e4c1de0664362b537fd278b2226f -] Anonymous {0.05037351 BTC |
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Snotty replies such as yours really take away my motivation to work on this stuff at all. I went back to this forum after a long hiatus to help people, but this gets me annoyed really really fast. John, I value your work greatly, which is why I am featuring it as one of my lectures in my course. Every community has members who do not appreciate the contributions of others. Do not infer that this is the standard. We, as a whole, deep appreciate your participation and effort and need you to continue with both passion and vigor. |
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mQGiBEkJ+qcRBADKDTcZlYDRtP1Q7/ShuzBJzUh9hoVVowogf2W07U6G9BqKW24r
piOxYmErjMFfvNtozNk+33cd/sq3gi05O1IMmZzg2rbF4ne5t3iplXnNuzNh+j+6
VxxA16GPhBRprvnng8r9GYALLUpo9Xk17KE429YYKFgVvtTPtEGUlpO1EwCg7FmW
dBbRp4mn5GfxQNT1hzp9WgkD/3pZ0cB5m4enzfylOHXmRfJKBMF02ZDnsY1GqeHv
/LjkhCusTp2qz4thLycYOFKGmAddpVnMsE/TYZLgpsxjrJsrEPNSdoXk3IgEStow
mXjTfr9xNOrB20Qk0ZOO1mipOWMgse4PmIu02X24OapWtyhdHsX3oBLcwDdke8aE
gAh8A/sHlK7fL1Bi8rFzx6hb+2yIlD/fazMBVZUe0r2uo7ldqEz5+GeEiBFignd5
HHhqjJw8rUJkfeZBoTKYlDKo7XDrTRxfyzNuZZPxBLTj+keY8WgYhQ5MWsSC2MX7
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YWthbW90byA8c2F0b3NoaW5AZ214LmNvbT6IYAQTEQIAIAUCSQn6pwIbAwYLCQgH
AwIEFQIIAwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEBjAnoZeyUihXGMAnjiWJ0fvmSgSM3o6Tu3q
RME9GN7QAKCGrFw9SUD0e9/YDcqhX1aPMrYue7kCDQRJCfqnEAgA9OTCjLa6Sj7t
dZcQxNufsDSCSB+yznIGzFGXXpJk7GgKmX3H9Zl4E6zJTQGXL2GAV4klkSfNtvgs
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XRqomX2WSguv+btYdhQGGQiaEx73XMftXNCxbOpqwsODQns7xTcl2ENru9BNIQME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=3FTe
Man that private key would be nice to have....
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After much discussion on this forum regarding the business practices of Butterfly labs [BFL], it has become clear to me that there are several unanswered questions. Should BFL not commit to a ship date for their ASICs by the end of April and independent members of this community verify that they have received the product they ordered, I will draft an open letter to BFL. Its purpose is to determine the following: - When did BFL have a working prototype of at least one of the ASIC products and how did they infer their engineering claims for both performance and power consumption?
- Will BFL consent to an independent audit of their corporation accounts?
- Did BFL finance (in part or fully) the development of their product line from preorders?
- Who is currently fabricating the chips within their products and can BFL produce on demand the contract signed with said fabricator?
- What is BFL's estimated shipping volume for ordered units per month
- How was BFL able to sustain itself during the delays?
- Has BFL engaged in mining and if so for how long and to what extent?
This list is a starting point. I'd like the engineers, accountants and legal professionals in this community to chime in to contribute their concerns. We have a duty to self-regulate and root out fraud where it occurs. Many people here have invested in BFL products and this forum runs ads. |
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've been playing your tutorials while browsing the forum. A couple comments:
- The pink/purple link text on a medium grey background is flat out illegible at my current monitor settings - which seem to be fine for photo enhancement work. They should probably be changed.
- I tried to leave you a note to this effect on the 'Questions' portion of the courseware. I don't think the [Ask] button did anything. Firefox 20.0 on OS X 10.7.5.
- While informative, they are quite long. If the target audience are the tire-kickers, you need to edit, edit, edit. Perhaps do two on each topic - a highlights with the most crucial 15% of the material, and the current length as an 'in depth' session.
- More color & movement would help maintain focus as well.
- Personally, I disagree with libertine on the mix of 'licit'/'illicit' use. Why draw attention to something seen as a negative - at least something that carries no operational risk. (And with the name of 'libertine', I wonder if perhaps there may be an element of reverse psychology happening here Thanks for the advice. I wanted to start very broad and deep and then edit and refine down to something far more pure. Do you think I should add more graphics, tables, etc? I might break the videos down to 15 minute blocks. What do you think? |
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Wenbo Mao can't step forward as Satoshi. He's gone to the stars now.
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Thinkers and visionaries.
Economists.
Political analysts.
Programmers.
Marketeers.
Creative people. Lol, yes those other super important people. |
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