You'll be way behind the game with that process and such lead time.

Why are you doing an ASIC then?

Testnet = no profits.
Mainnet = PROFIT!!

Nuff said.

There, fixed for you. I guess some people are happy to pay 10x margins. At least you're honest when you say you hold AM shares

Don't think in Euros, think in Bitcoins.

That said, 50 BTC is still way too steep a price for such a low performance hasher. The rising difficulty will push ROI time way back into 4th quarter of this year at least, and by then nobody has good estimates or even guesses of difficulty. Too many unknowns, ASICMINER themselves being one of them.

At that price, the only ones benefiting are ASICMINER shareholders. Good for them I guess

EDIT: for comparison, in "Avalon equivalents", you'd pay about 278 BTC to get one 3-module Avalon unit out of these blades (67k/12k). If you were to assemble an "Avalon-erupter" with 12Ghash/s from Avalon chips, you'd pay less than 4 BTC (without any other components though, so that comparison isn't entirely valid). Put simply, these are way overpriced.

Josh, is that you? You sure have his trolling skills.

I tried to scan the thread but I didn't catch where in Germany burnin is located. Also, is a pickup of the complete boards possible in person? I'm trying to plan my summer vacation

I know, and I believe companies should be rewarded for putting in R&D for new products. HOWEVER, their R&D costs most likely have already been recouped many times over from the larger hashing units. Seeing as how the USB gadget is quite simple a device to make if you already have a working ASIC with working firmware, the actual R&D expenses of pulling that miner off won't be very large. And hence I firmly believe these USB miners are just a money grab at the current price.

Put simply, I don't support unbounded greed. As soon as people do the ROI calculations of these devices, their unviability should be apparent.

This just proves my point that they're becoming too large too soon. This should be a wake-up call to everyone.

I don't mean to say that they would do something so stupid as try double-spending anything. The point is, they will have the ability, and that alone could cause a lot of problems if people start to question the viability of BTC.

I think these current USB devices are just a curiosity at this price point. Sending the signal that people will buy anything and everything at hugely inflated prices will do much harm in the long run. There's absolutely no need to enrich ASICMINER and contribute to the centralisation of the network(*) at the current time any more than it's happening already. Come autumn when Avalon's chips built into DIY and small-time projects are hashing all over the world, then the situation is different. But at the moment... nah.

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(*) I realise the USB gadgets will of course be hashing all over the world, but the BTC spent on them will give ASICMINER an even bigger ability to centralise more. The actual hashing output of the devices will be minuscule in the grand scheme of things.

If you keep buying the USB miners at that ridiculous price, they have no incentive to lower the price. The only thing this USB miner will do for Bitcoin is to add more of them to ASICMINER's coffers.

See, ASICMINER can't deploy too much extra hashpower yet until Avalon/BFL ship more of their units since they'd be nearing hashrates with which they could conceivably execute double spends. Even the threat of that possibility should be enough to deter them since that would most likely erode confidence in BTC.

You misunderstood. They were asking about the USD value reported to customs, I believe.

While the new units built according to AM's specifications would come online, AM could then bring their extra units to bear gradually to compensate. This looks like a win-win since AM gets to sell their chips, and be able to actually use their extra units as well. They probably have a second generation ASIC in the pipeline, so they could keep selling the older chips for profit for quite a bit longer while deploying newer hardware themselves.

Discuss, please... this was just my 0.002BTC

Now here's an idea.

friedcat/ASICMINER: if you really are serious about Bitcoin and decentralization of the network, now would be the perfect time to show that. Forget those way overpriced USB toys which, when people actually do the ROI calculations, look like a blatant BTC grab. Instead start selling your ASIC chips with specifications so other people can design and build competing devices.

At the moment I understand you have to withhold quite a bit of your hashing power. If you powered it all on, you would probably "own" the network if not now, then quite soon (in a few weeks?). I recall friedcat saying that your competitors' delays have upset your plans already.

So this is my proposition: let other people design and build a competing project around AM chips, just like people are already doing with Avalon. IF (and this is a big if) Avalon fails to deliver their chip orders and/or batch 2/3, then what? You still can't deploy extra hashing power in any big quantity since we get back to the "too large" problem, and crashing BTC price would also hurt your profits.

Should you agree in some way with this plan, please price your chips competitively. Not this "2 BTC for 300 MHash/s" nonsense. You will cut into your profits somewhat, but I would hazard a guess that dip is less than upsetting BTC price completely by being too large and causing a panic sell and the corresponding mess.

Not anymore! He's down 20 Watts

GPUs are still going strong. Free electricity makes them profitable even now, for a while. I make more BTC by playing the Gox/BTC-e markets however, so it's just a matter of "when do I bother turning my GPU rigs off". And BFL... don't make me laugh...

Anyway, the point is that these Asicminer USB thingamajingas aren't something to buy if you intend to invest for profit. Even GPUs are better because their resale value doesn't just evaporate. Sure, buy them for the novelty value, but an investment they're not, and you shouldn't try to pass them off as such. Of course, it's your bitcoins so...

Indeed! I would consider myself robbed if I were to buy these with any kind of a ROI in mind

Very well said.

I would only like to add that Avalon chips being generally available through the several group buys do fill the gap between (soon obsolete) GPUs and full Avalon units. However, since the smallest currently planned design fits 10 Avalon chips per unit, you're still looking at a 150+ USD / 120+ euro "investment" even then. Had Asicminer priced these USB sticks competitively, they'd been able to fill the low-end niche before DIY Avalon boards become available en masse. They still could, but I doubt that.

I foresee a DIY one-chip Avalon USB module being the thing people want, as it will have a realistic price point instead of this novelty item.

There, fixed for you. Most likely buyers won't achieve ROI with these. I could buy one just for the novelty value, but that's with understanding that I won't ever get all my BTC back.

Supporting the network is fine and dandy, but that's a completely separate issue from ROI.

While you could do a pick-and-place with tweezers, and do a reflow in a basic household oven, it's not for the faint of heart. Chance for failure is high for beginners, so it's not really suggested.

If you want something that "just works", buy a complete board with asics. Fwiw.