To clarify, being late can't be seen as a scam .... it's common knowledge.
But this is not being late, that is the issue. What is common knowledge is taking product that was paid for, manufactured for and allocated to a specific set of customers, and reselling that product to another 2nd customer for a higher price, is illegal and fraudulent. In this situation the group buy payments (millions of dollars) were used to secure manufacture of product from TSMC, Yifu then turned around and resold that paid for product to a higher bidder. That is plainly illegal. Even if Yifu then takes this higher bidder funds to purchase another round of TSMC chips and deliver those, it is still illegal. Doubly so since the time value of the product has been destroyed. Yifu promised a time schedule and purposefully broke that to profit himself with zero compensation to customers. So the statement that it's common knowledge that being late is OK, is both wrong and absurd in this case. Can you prove your saying about selling to higher bidder? People and companies are being late all the time. thank you for your effort to bring up all that we need in one place
thx again
no problem  |
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I think the main group buy organizers should band together and contact the FBI regarding this $10M scam. At this point it is clear that Yifu sold chips to the highest bidder destroying any future ROI for customers on chips he may or may not deliver. This is a larger scam than pirate and the government developed a case and took him down.
Engaging the government on illegal actions such as this only helps strengthen and legitimize Bitcoin.
Most people I know are into Bitcoin because it is a currency that the bankers can not debase and reward just themselves. That is a legitimate goal. We don't want to see Bitcoin turn into a den of thieves that only transfers abuse from bankers to guys like Yifu and pirate.
Maybe we also send ....  ...... ? To clarify, being late can't be seen as a scam .... it's common knowledge. |
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I don't know can we/you manage to link all the orders with payments since there was no obligation for group buyers to buy from wallet address they used to collect funds, and some also used escrow?
SebastianJu' batch #2 was paid, and order status was changed to "chips ordered" as per Sebastian's OP, but I will let him know about this so we can "hear" what he "says" about it.
I have to clarify that I have full confident in Sebastian and I appreciate all the effort he did to justify his role as group buy leader, so if anything wrong happened I would see it as mistake and nothing more.
Oh, I think you understand me wrong, there is the payment for batch #2 -> https://blockchain.info/de/address/1ECoeDfK79CNm1Mzx6NMMkZrHVocwNg6Sp - it just doesn't show up on the "big" avalon payment address. There is a big gap on this addresse between 2013-05-11 14:57:58 and 2013-05-22 02:17:07. Seems there are actually more orders than the 97 batches on 1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU. my bad then , anyways I sent PM to Sebastian so he will probably reply later. |
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Thanks for the work tiros. I made a spreadsheet out of your data in combination with the avalon payment address ( 1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiLYkKIHJaIsdHpIaGdUOWRYVUdncTNpNlVKbVhCbEE&usp=sharingInfo about the data in the spreadsheet: Order: There are some payments that don't have the hole payment amount in one transaction, these have the same Order "ID". For example order 4 -> Payment 1: 700.6, Payment 2: 55, Payment 1: 26.5. In total there are 54 orders, containing 97 * 10.000 Chips. Group Buy Date didn't match payment date1. There is no payment for SebastianJu Batch #2 on: 2013-05-18: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-27 ---> - 23 days
I added it to an order made on 2013-05-22. Anyway the bitcoins are still here 1ECoeDfK79CNm1Mzx6NMMkZrHVocwNg6Sp not transfered to the bitcoin address with 75k Bitcoins. 2. There are some group buys you have listed that don't show up on this bitcoin address. I added this group buys on the end of the table. What do you think is this spreadsheet usefull? Are there any infos on other delivered batches? I don't know can we/you manage to link all the orders with payments since there was no obligation for group buyers to buy from wallet address they used to collect funds, and some also used escrow? SebastianJu' batch #2 was paid, and order status was changed to "chips ordered" as per Sebastian's OP, but I will let him know about this so we can "hear" what he "says" about it. I have to clarify that I have full confident in Sebastian and I appreciate all the effort he did to justify his role as group buy leader, so if anything wrong happened I would see it as mistake and nothing more. |
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Great topic.. finally one place to check the status all the group buys..
Lets see if some chips show up "soon"...
Thanks, it is good to see people find it useful. Very helpful. Will you be updating it daily?
I plan to. |
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Thanks, added. Great info! keep it up  Thank you, I appreciate your comment Well there is at least 60,000 chips ahead of steamboats group buy #1. Hopefully group buy #1 is included in the 130,000 chips shipped, but highly doubt it.
Probably not. Our orders are most likely tip of an iceberg. Where are those 135 boxes of chips we saw?
STOP saying this. There were 24 boxes of chips, NOT 135. The tracking number was for the entire shipment which included other items. The boxes were clearly labeled as 1/24, etc. It was still 24 boxes of chips, but not nearly as many as people think it was. Many tend to disagree with you on this mater. And I dare to think that if you employee logic you will disagree with yourself also. Where are those 135 boxes of chips we saw?
STOP saying this. There were 24 boxes of chips, NOT 135. The tracking number was for the entire shipment which included other items. The boxes were clearly labeled as 1/24, etc. It was still 24 boxes of chips, but not nearly as many as people think it was. Ummm ... it is 135. Unless 135 means 24 in which case the world is less sane than I thought it is: http://www.track-shipments.com/track-trace.aspx?pref=AWB&awbno=87150508076Most surprisingly, there is evidence that there were actually 135 boxes in the shipment that arrived for these photographs. This would indicate 593 TH/s at the standard 282 MH/s clock speed, or a monstrous 842 TH/s overclocked to 400 MH/s per chip. Given the high estimate, that would add almost 500% to the network speed.
( http://thegenesisblock.com/latest-shipment-of-avalon-asics-could-increase-network-hashrate-by-500/) Marto74 Batch 1 ordered 17-June: Batch 2 ordered 06-July: 2-nd batch order Order #11321 made on July 6, 2013. Order status: processing. Thanks, added. |
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Where we stand 2013-07-07: Batch 6 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-09-15 ---> + 29 days
2013-06-13: Batch 5 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-22 ---> + 5 days
2013-05-27: Batch 4 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-05 ---> - 14 days
2013-05-23: Batch 3 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-01 ---> - 18 days
2013-05-18: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-27 ---> - 22 days
2013-05-11: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-20 ---> - 29 days
Thanks. Ill repost this in german thread... we arent hit so bad like others yet but nonetheless the difficulty beats us the same. I didnt foresee that the diff will rise so fast and im very sure no one other did. I think the one that ordered KNC and any other preorder that will ship even later will have a way harder time then we will have. You are welcome I anticipated it's going to be 4 times worse by the time I got my miners, and now its 2.37 already and no chips in sight  I also opened new topic at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277198.0 |
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Here is where these group buys stands. Steamboat 2013-07-06: Batch 6 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-09-14 ---> + 28 days
2013-06-05: Batch 5 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-14 ---> - 4 days
2013-05-28: Batch 4 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-06 ---> - 13 days
2013-05-22: Batch 3 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-31 ---> - 19 days
2013-05-11: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-20 ---> - 30 days
2013-05-01: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-10 ---> - 40 days
Avalon - Chips group buy order time frame and deliveries https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277198.msg2959430#msg2959430 |
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Here is where these group buys stands. Zefir 2013-04-30: Batch 7 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-09 ---> - 42 days
2013-04-30: Batch 6 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-09 ---> - 42 days
2013-04-28: Batch 5 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-07 ---> - 44 days
2013-04-24: Batch 4 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-03 ---> - 48 days
2013-04-20: Batch 3 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-06-29 ---> - 52 days
2013-04-20: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-06-29 ---> - 52 days
2013-04-16: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-06-25 - delivered - 2013-07-23 - 29 days late
Avalon - Chips group buy order time frame and deliveries https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277198.msg2959430#msg2959430 |
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Hi, just wanted to see where we stand in terms of Avalon chips deliveries. There is probably many more, but these are most known (at least to me). I'll be doing a review of chips group buy order date and deliveries concluding this day - 2013-09-01: Zefir - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.02013-04-30: Batch 7 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-09 ---> - 56 days
2013-04-30: Batch 6 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-09 ---> - 56 days
2013-04-28: Batch 5 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-07 ---> - 58 days
2013-04-24: Batch 4 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-03 ---> - 62 days
2013-04-20: Batch 3 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-06-29 ---> - 65 days
2013-04-18: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-06-27 - delivered - 2013-08-23 - 58 days late
2013-04-16: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-06-25 - delivered - 2013-07-24 - 29 days late
Big Time Coin - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=180093.02013-04-17: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-06-26 - delivered - 2013-08-27 - 63 days late
ragingazn628 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189220.02013-04-27: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-06 ---> - 58 days
Steamboat - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.02013-07-06: Batch 6 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-09-14 ---> + 14 days
2013-06-05: Batch 5 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-14 ---> - 18 days
2013-05-28: Batch 4 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-06 ---> - 27 days
2013-05-22: Batch 3 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-31 ---> - 33 days
2013-05-11: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-20 ---> - 44 days
2013-05-01: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-10 ---> - 54 days
SebastianJu' - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=187660.02013-07-07: Batch 6 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-09-15 ---> + 15 days
2013-06-13: Batch 5 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-22 ---> - 10 days
2013-05-27: Batch 4 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-05 ---> - 28 days
2013-05-23: Batch 3 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-01 ---> - 32 days - refunded - 2013-09-01
2013-05-18: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-27 ---> - 36 days - refunded - 2013-09-01
2013-05-11: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-20 ---> - 43 days - refunded - 2013-09-01
t13hydra - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189582.0 Sample chips unboxing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1FLE59Hzck2013-06-30: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-15 ---> - 18 days
2013-05-23: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-01 ---> - 32 days
kslaughter https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158806.msg2370446#msg23704462013-06-01: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-10 ---> - 23 days
2013-05-28: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-06 ---> - 27 days
bizwoo - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200067.02013-07-08: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-09-16 ---> + 17 days
2013-06-08: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-17 ---> - 15 days
marto74 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=217316.02013-07-06: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-09-14 ---> + 14 days
2013-06-17: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-26 ---> - 6 days
Total 230K of chips 190K are already late 40K still in time frame When we sum up these ones being late as they are, 230K of chips that Avalon didn't deliver, and Yifu's stating "130K chips gone out", it is clear it will not cover just for these three groups of buyers. at the moment of writing, another 130k chips have gone out, and will proceed to ship more as we get them. ( and no, they are not samples.)
Where are those 135 boxes of chips we saw? http://thegenesisblock.com/latest-shipment-of-avalon-asics-could-increase-network-hashrate-by-500/Maybe you think Yifu offered to clear all unanswered questions? Take a look and see for yourself. http://avalon-asics.com/Call me impatient one, but here is what I think about it.  New update from Avalon http://avalon-asics.com/story so far - 8/19
chips have arrived via other routes as previously announced, we are shipping them out at the rate of 40-50k on a daily basis at the moment, in addition to the ~150k or so that went out, another 40k was shipped today. There is multiple channel which the chips are arriving from various packaging facility to minimize downtime. Please bare this in mind: while we had backup/multiple packaging companies and various delivery routes, things still will go wrong. There is also testing that must be done, then they can split, packed and sent to the EZP coupled with their CN-22 and be on their way. We will provide more update as they come. In addition, the trade-in and refunds are being processed.
Let us see how this one goes. Since this thread started two buyers (as I know) received their "shipped" info notification, and probably their tracking numbers. It seems to be that being late 2 month over 10 weeks terms of delivery is business as usual for Avalon and Yifu. Courtesy of paul3 News letter from Avalon 2013-08-31
Avalon ASIC Chips Shipping, Refunds, and Status Update
Avalon ASIC Chips Delivery Update, September Edition
Due to events outside of our control, the delivery of chips have been delayed so far. While the situation are improving and chips are shipping, we have ultimately decided to revert our policy on no refunds and offer the option for customers to request a full refund(in bitcoin) if so desired.
The link to the request form is below, please note this only applies to orders made earlier than June 1st.
In other news, for those who decided to wait or wish to know more about delivery schedule will be glad to note we are receiving a batch of 400,000+ chips on Wednesday, with that we expect to be in good shape for meeting the upcoming deadlines of chip deliveries for orders made in June and later.
In addition, we hope to wrap up generation one, finish shipping the chips, construct the modules and build the 2 module Avalon mini, put this pre-order mess behind us in general and switch gear into 55nm production, tape out generation 3, and start work on improving chip design for generation 4. Only sell what we can produce in a day on the assembly line, and only what's in stock.
And here is where Yifu extends timeline when GB were ordered Anyhow, If people think I'm trying to screw the people who ordered from 15th to the 22th of June that is just silly, and false in their assumption. Here's the new deal,
The form will extend to orders made before the 22nd, which is exatly 10 weeks. and every order after, on the date it is suppose to ship, we'll send out a email asking if a refund is desired.
While I have no problems issue refunds, compensating for delay and such, I got no patience for people complaining when their orders are not late. Not too surprisingly, the people complaining the loudest are people whose order are not late yet(so more people refund and they can get their chips earlier maybe?), and people who have no orders(standard trolls of bitcointalk).
Most people who have chip orders are much more understanding to the situation, whom are either taking refunds, or working out some sort of compensation model.
Showing himself in very positive light and doing what should be done, more then few batches were refunded immediately. Thank you Yifu for doing the right thing and finally listening to your customers! Refunds will be noted in a way - first in, first out - so shipping delay can be calculated fairly. If you have more group buys with known status, link and day when ordered, just post them and I will add them to OP. |
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Where we stand 2013-07-07: Batch 6 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-09-15 ---> + 29 days
2013-06-13: Batch 5 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-22 ---> + 5 days
2013-05-27: Batch 4 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-05 ---> - 14 days
2013-05-23: Batch 3 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-08-01 ---> - 18 days
2013-05-18: Batch 2 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-27 ---> - 22 days
2013-05-11: Batch 1 ordered - Expected date of arrival (10 weeks) - 2013-07-20 ---> - 29 days
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If the production really would include so many uncertainties in time why didnt Yifu say a word about it? Instead he spoke about 2 weeks in customs for a couple chip batches. If it were true that TSMC, for some reason, had delays then it would be the most normal thing in the world to blame them to change the flow of anger and they are the reason, isnt it?
The truth always comes out. We will know, later. Yes, and water is wet .... Donate if you want me to post more stuff like this |
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For those of you who think it is easy to order chips and that YiFu could easily have done better and cheaper, I offer a challenge:
Make it so.
It doesnt sound as hard to collect money, find the people that are capable to develop it and build the product in foundry. The point is. Yifu already did this several times. He knows exactly how long it takes to produce that exact chip. There are no vars in between so he was able to give a lead time of 9-10 weeks. After 5 weeks exactly the chip batches in shop were changed to "Chips ordered" which means to me he knows that the chip production takes 4 weeks from then. And it looks there were a huge amount of such chips see the fotos of the boxes. They only didnt reach us. I cant believe his story. 20 batches in customs for 2 weeks when they are 5 weeks late? First, 20 batches are nothing and the 2 weeks explain nothing. Then someone knocked at a employees door? Thats so creepy one have to stop working and, like i read, getting bodyguards? I really believe it only was a customer asking were his chips are. The same goes for the pdf with private details. Whats the problem? The problem is that so many customers are angry and would like to break the communication stop. Without that the threat would be useless. Whatever. Im tired of getting angry at Yifu. Mostly I agree with Sebastian. Such a process of producing chips is well known with all of its time frames. Yifu knows all of this, and yet he choose to misled us and stale us. Dishonest to say at least. I wish I didn't bought any of his damn chips. |
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at the moment of writing, another 130k chips have gone out, and will proceed to ship more as we get them. ( and no, they are not samples.)
Not sure how that looks like in your backlog, but hey, any news from you are good news ... right? What you missed to tell us is what is happening with those chips in customs? Of course you know already why so many of us are pissed off, but feel free to ignore all these question ... like you already did. I am sad to say, but I wish I didn't bought any of your damn chips. |
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Few thoughts to share and I am aware maybe not so many will agree with me while waiting my chips to arrive and reading various of comments, ideas and threats. By buying chips from Avalon they never gave us any warranty that we will profit from such investment, and we shouldn't mix how they were setting the price of Avalon chip/unit with what we would like to earn. In business that include selling of product and delivering it from location A to B, it usually involves time needed for delivery. It looks like Avalon broke their own terms for lead time of delivery, or maybe they even didn't by not precisely stating what kind of lead time they were specifying. Here are few lead times descriptions from wikipedia: Order Lead Time - Time from customer order received to customer order delivered. Order Handling Time - Time from customer order received to sales order created. Manufacturing Lead Time - Time from sales order created to production finished (ready for delivery). Production Lead Time - Time from start of physical production of first submodule/part to production finished (ready for delivery). Delivery Lead Time - Time from production finished to customer order delivered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_timeI posted about lead time just as a reference for those looking out to sue. For one that took any business for granted to be producing profit, it is clear that some of us know little about business world that consist of constant tries, fails and occasionally a success. One thing is wishful thinking and other is making a success. For sure I understand how sweet dream and unfulfilled desire to get rich and successful tastes once when you woke up in reality to see and realize all real life obstacles preventing you to live it and feel it. What I also wanted to say it that we can't prove what Yifu had said as true or false, we can only guess. What does bother me in his story is that he didn't backed up his claims with single shred of evidence. 200K of chips is nothing in comparison what they should/could produce having in mind demands and funds they have. Where ended up 135 boxes of chips that we saw on the picture or maybe he isn't aware of such leak and feel no need to explain. Why for God's sake all those delays? Straight and honest answer will do. For the good things he wrote is Avalon distancing themselves from preorder type of sales. Announcement of new gen chips, Letting us know he is alive  Let us wait for that week he mentioned, and one more after before going into Medieval period looking for witch to burn. |
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