Ich bin da anderer Meinung  Falls es dich tröstet, ich habe auch 2 Monarch Orders bei BFL offen! |
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schon mal an Bitpay gedacht, die wollen sicher ihre gesammelten Coins zwischendurch wieder zu Kohle machen!?
BFL ist wohl auch ein Kandidat, scheinen immer noch nicht genug Cash zu haben, um Ihre 28nm Chips produzieren lassen zu können.
Sollte BFL seine 28 nm Chips nicht produzieren dann liegt das wahrscheinlich ehr daran, dass sie noch keinen anständigen Chip (mit allem was dazugehört) designed haben. Wäre ja sau dumm von denen. Der größte Teil der Kosten steckt ja in der Entwicklung sowie Aufbau-und Verbindungstechnik. Bei 28-nm-Technologie werden die wahrscheinlich auf 12''-Wafer produziert und da passen, wie der Name der Technologie vermuten lässt, einige Chips drauf. Das wiederum bedeutet niedrige Preise pro Chip. Es seiden die Bauen ihre eigene Fab. Nein , diese Chips sind viel teurer, weil nur wenige große Firmen den Herstellungsprozess beherrschen. Edit: Wer am meissten zahlt bekommt als erstes seine Chips! Aber das waren auch nur Denkanstösse, mögliche Kandidaten gibt es viele, die regelmäßig auscachen müssen oder wollen. Nein? Wie glaubst du denn werden diese Chips entwickelt? Meinst die machen das Chip-Design am PC und sagen: So jetzt ist fertig  Ja, so in etwa läuft es! Wenn das Design nichts taugt sieht man es erst nach der Produktion, dann sind einige Millionen Dollar futsch! Edit: Oder man verkauft den Schrott, so wie Bitfury, deren Chips nur die halbe Leistung bringen. Im Zuge der Entwicklung muss definitiv in kleinen Stückzahlen Produziert worden sein. Sonst kann man doch nix Testen und Package ist auch nicht möglich. Und wenn wirklich von BFL fertig entwickelt wurde dann bleib ich bei meiner Aussage, dass es sau dumm wäre nicht zu produzieren.
geht so nicht, die Firmen müssen sich jedesmal wieder hinten anstellen bzw. in der Reihe nach vorne kaufen!
Das mit dem "Wer am meisten Zahlt, bekommt die ersten Chips" lässt darauf schließen das die Chips nicht von BFL sondern einem dritten Anbieter entwickelt worden sind.
Nein, damit meine ich wer zB. in Dresten seine Chips herstellen lässt, bekommt sie entsprechend früher geliefert, je mehr er bezahlt! Ganz einfache Geschichte! Und btw: BFL steigt nicht ohne Grund auf Wasserkühlung um, Ihre 28nm Chips erfüllen wohl auch nicht die gesetzten Specs und lassen sich nicht wirklich Luftkühlen. Edit: und die nächste Serie konnten Sie noch nicht bezahlen |
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So tired of quoting.  True, but this is their protection clause in printed glory form: "We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network." Now I'm not a lawyer and don't feel like bothering a friend who is, but that is a very, very vague statement. "Continue to release as competitively priced as we can" says nothing about upgrades, additional modules, partial refunds, etc. for people who are buying their pre-orders. All it says is they can adjust their pricing. This is not a confidence builder, I may as well tell my kid that if life gets tough someone may help him out. Or I'll take investor money and "do the best I can" to protect them and make good moves to not lose money. Summary => KNC is running another pre-order, pray to God nobody screws with the mining world between now and then.  all we can do in this Business, is to trust or not and bet on the Company that we trust! So i bet on KNC.* *and I was very angry as they had so quickly closed the first batch and I had to buy for 13000 my second neptune! |
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schon mal an Bitpay gedacht, die wollen sicher ihre gesammelten Coins zwischendurch wieder zu Kohle machen!?
BFL ist wohl auch ein Kandidat, scheinen immer noch nicht genug Cash zu haben, um Ihre 28nm Chips produzieren lassen zu können.
Sollte BFL seine 28 nm Chips nicht produzieren dann liegt das wahrscheinlich ehr daran, dass sie noch keinen anständigen Chip (mit allem was dazugehört) designed haben. Wäre ja sau dumm von denen. Der größte Teil der Kosten steckt ja in der Entwicklung sowie Aufbau-und Verbindungstechnik. Bei 28-nm-Technologie werden die wahrscheinlich auf 12''-Wafer produziert und da passen, wie der Name der Technologie vermuten lässt, einige Chips drauf. Das wiederum bedeutet niedrige Preise pro Chip. Es seiden die Bauen ihre eigene Fab. Nein , diese Chips sind viel teurer, weil nur wenige große Firmen den Herstellungsprozess beherrschen. Edit: Wer am meissten zahlt bekommt als erstes seine Chips! Aber das waren auch nur Denkanstösse, mögliche Kandidaten gibt es viele, die regelmäßig auscachen müssen oder wollen. |
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ethical... eg. they promissed to not flood the hashrate and dont ship new machines till march/2014...
No insult to you RenHoek as I don't know you, but don't you think that is just idiotic logic? As someone said just above, between now and March/14 we're in another black hole of who ships what and when. CoinTerra or HF ship? Trouble for Neptunes. BFL pulls one out and starts dropping Monarchs left and right? More trouble. AM delivers anything that isn't first gen crap? More trouble. Don't forget folks like BitFury who have no shame targeting another vendor (do we remember the BitFuryStrikesBack graphic? ). The only thing KNC ensures by not shipping is that people are going to point their paying power elsewhere because the mining market is both vicious and hungry for hardware, so this February HashFactoryOmega may start selling a kajillion 200GH units for a reasonable price and flooding the market, destroying any hopes of Neptunes being worth such a long-term pre-order phase. The market moves fast - heck, look at those BitMain folks, selling stuff like hotcakes in their auctions. Nothing - nothing - is stopping someone just like them from saying whatev', let's make our retirement by totally killing the mining market and walking away. All KNC is doing is giving themselves R&D and testing time. their protection statement has an exception clause If other competitors dare to mess up the market, KNC reserves the right to protect its customers. And with dumping prices to protect their interests! |
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wall-street
The price of bitcoin could increase to as much as $98,500, according to analysts at financial services and investment firm Wedbush Securities.
A report from analysts Gil Luria and Aron Turner, which has been referenced on StreetInsider.com, takes an extremely positive view of bitcoin, suggesting digital currency has the potential to shake up the current payments space.
Titled Bitcoin: Intrinsic Value as Conduit for Disruptive Payment Network Technology, the report states:
“Among other facets, we believe bitcoin and its associated technology represent a potentially game-changing disruption to our covered payments companies.”
The authors go on to claim cryptocurrency provides a “powerful alternative to branded networks” due to its decentralised processing, new functionality and use of market-based fees.
Hot topic
The price of bitcoin has been a hot topic over the past week, with the digital currency increasing to the dizzy highs of $1,165 on Saturday, according to the CoinDesk BPI. On Mt. Gox, the price topped $1,242, overtaking the price of gold for the first time (gold was at $1,241 per ounce).
Erik Voorhees, who sold gambling site SatoshiDice for 126,315 BTC this year, said this showed what a “respectable asset” bitcoin is becoming.
“Clearly, bitcoin is no longer a penny stock. It’s playing in the big leagues – a share being worth more than a share of Google or Apple, and even more then an ounce of gold,” he said at the time.
The value has dipped over the past day or so, with the price, at the time of writing, hovering at around $1,071.
Up or down?
Many people have been asserting that the current high value is merely a temporary spike and that it will soon plummet to the level seen in September and October (around $120-$150), or perhaps even lower.
Luria and Turner disagree, believing the value will continue to increase over the coming years. They said:
“We believe rising bitcoin prices help build the network thus entrenching its value, especially vis-à-vis other alternative coins/conduits. Based on this framework, we would postulate that current bitcoin prices reflect a peak penetration of 1% of total potential demand in 10 years.”
Last month, the Winklevoss twins remarked that they envisioned bitcoin increasing by 100 times. At the time of their comments, the price of bitcoin was $343, so the value has already increased by over 211%.
Speaking to CNBC at the Dealbook conference in New York, Tyler Winklevoss, who was involved in the creation of Facebook, said: “Some people definitely view [bitcoin] as Gold 2.0.”
Chamath’s millions
Ex-Facebook executive Chamath Palihapitiya is also pretty bullish about bitcoin.
At the end of October, he revealed he owned $5m worth of the digital currency, but said he was hoping to build that to $10m-$15m. On October 29th, the price of bitcoin was just under $200, so it is likely he had around 25,000 BTC. That quantity of bitcoins is now worth over $26m, so it seems Palihapitiya got what he wished for, and then some.
Back in May, he wrote an opinion piece for Bloomberg stating that bitcoin could become a “better version” of gold, or even a replacement for the precious metal. With all the gold in the world totalling around $8 trillion, Palihapitiya said, if bitcoin replaced gold as a store of value, each bitcoin would cost almost $400,000, once all 21m bitcoins have been mined ($8 trillion/21m BTC).
“If bitcoin grows into something bigger – a useful reserve currency, then watch out: Its value will far exceed $400,000,” he wrote, adding:
“I personally think that bitcoin is already superior to gold. Its role as currency is yet to be determined, but over the next decade, being Gold 2.0 will suffice considering that it would represent a more than 3,000 times return.”
The problem with volatility
While many people believe that, in the long run, the price of bitcoin will be considerably higher than it is now, the common view is that its volatility will continue in the short term.
Luria and Turner explained in their report that this volatility is a result of an “extended price discovery process”. It is believed that the more liquidity bitcoin gains and the more widely it is adopted, the greater the likelihood is of the price stabilising.
Currently, the currency’s volatility is the factor that is putting a high percentage of people off taking bitcoin seriously.
University of California-San Diego researcher Sarah Meiklejohn, who wrote a paper called A Fistful of Bitcoins: Characterizing Payments Among Men With No Names, told CoinDesk the thing that makes her the “most nervous” about bitcoin is its volatility.
“It’s a chicken or egg problem. You need more people to adopt bitcoin in order to stabilize this, but people are shying away from bitcoin because they perceive it as volatile and as a risky investment,” she said.
The solution to this problem isn’t yet clear, but the bitcoin community and the businesses within it continue to work hard to make it easier for merchants to accept bitcoins and consumers to obtain it and then spend it.
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Wir ich die Leute hasse die nur Gier und Geld im Kopf haben.
ROFL. Was suchst Du im Bitcoinforum? Vll bist Du bei Amnesty International / Greenpeace / Rettet die Waale besser aufgehoben? muhaha +1 |
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Why is KNC not like Ticketmaster? UUUuuuh.... <Pics Snipped> One guy gets through, and hears a sexy swedish girl's voice...and you never get them off the phone!.. All they mentally see is this:  No wonder! Ohhh, they have female reps? LOL ps. I've never called, (email worked fine for me) seems as her shoulder burns |
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A reasonably priced batch of Saturn/Mercury type units would sell out no problem at this point since KNC is 'proven', but all their store shows is the Neptune.
I can not understand this either and KnC makes no sense in not offering Saturn/Mercury miners "in mass". Any ASIC business usually develops a chip and then runs it for at least 1 year. Now that their first design is proven, bugs are worked out and NRE costs recouped, KnC could do large volume runs of the older line and price these things at levels that blow the competition away. Everyone will flock to them since they are proven. Or they could just offer the ASICs and let the 3rd party board developers run with it. In the ASIC business the high-volume player always wins in the long run, it makes sense for any successful bitcoin ASIC vendor to take this route early to establish themselves. IMHO KnC is opening the door for Black Arrow or other similar ASICs to take a higher volume route with 3rd party board developers. Doing that may kill the goose that lays the golden egg. I think the reason Knc is doing limiting batches is to avoid driving up the difficulty to the point where it is no longer cost effective for them to manufacture new ASIC devices. Every machine Knc delivers effectively pushes down the value of their future devices, which is one of the great paradoxes of the zero sum bitcoin mining game. Yeah, but with that in mind... KNC just sold X Neptune units to returning customers. Lead time is 3-4 weeks before the (more expensive but same f'ing thing) Newbie Neptunes ship, per their site. Newbie Neptunes will see 2-3 diff changes between the original N ship date and the NN ship date. The later shipping units are more expensive, returning customer discount or not that is bullshit in the ASIC world. Butterfly Labs raised prices for basically the same exact hardware and the community shit a thousand bricks at them. KNC does it and it is "Fa la la, KNC loves their first customers that much!". *head scratching* So don't say KNC isn't in it for the money (tactical and ethical?), rather, they seem to have a good sense on how to maximize their profits while minimizing their own workload to avoid the scenario of "we sold more than we could make". Tactical - yes. Ethical - er, don't vendors generally lower prices in accordance with difficulty + later shipping window considerations? Or am I missing something here? ethical... eg. they promissed to not flood the hashrate and dont ship new machines till march/2014... |
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The biggest problem I'm seeing with KNC - why only the Neptune? I won't lend my thoughts to the sales technique of giving previous customers a better price and more lead time than a normal Joe off the street, but w[here]tf are the more reasonable units in regards to power consumption? There are a lot of folks who simply can't handle the type of power requirements that a Neptune needs, so while I could run a Saturn in every room of the house I rent due to an ingenious power arrangement, Neptune, even if my group wanted one, is just not possible.
Alright, I lied, so about the pricing... So early adopters pay $10k, newbies $13k. So they profit at least $3k per machine, of course a lot more since they wouldn't sell the first batch at-cost. Meaning KNC is making a mint off of people, but it seems like they (along with others) have forgotten that there is a fucking gigantic market that is drying up for the hobbyist community of miners who want to be "in the game" but can't get a custom electric line placed into their location. This is why Bitmain is selling every unit they produce in their "auctions" - you can't find something in the 100-400GH range readily available and people are jumping at the bit to get these things. A reasonably priced batch of Saturn/Mercury type units would sell out no problem at this point since KNC is 'proven', but all their store shows is the Neptune.
I don't know, seems to be a losing proposition since anyone who looks at KNC now that didn't previously order is likely in the "f this" camp and looking for a different vendor.
Take a look at this Phrase then imagine and relax!: Our first offering at 20nm is called Neptune following the naming convention from our 28nm range. Seems there will other machines announces follow.  The next step is OBVIOUSLY a 10Th/s machine. I hope so  |
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A reasonably priced batch of Saturn/Mercury type units would sell out no problem at this point since KNC is 'proven', but all their store shows is the Neptune.
I can not understand this either and KnC makes no sense in not offering Saturn/Mercury miners "in mass". Any ASIC business usually develops a chip and then runs it for at least 1 year. Now that their first design is proven, bugs are worked out and NRE costs recouped, KnC could do large volume runs of the older line and price these things at levels that blow the competition away. Everyone will flock to them since they are proven. Or they could just offer the ASICs and let the 3rd party board developers run with it. In the ASIC business the high-volume player always wins in the long run, it makes sense for any successful bitcoin ASIC vendor to take this route early to establish themselves. IMHO KnC is opening the door for Black Arrow or other similar ASICs to take a higher volume route with 3rd party board developers. KNC steps in very tactical and ethical ways! Profit is not all for this Guys! They seems akind of holy. |
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Wenn sich jemand die Mühe macht. Es gibt soviel Lug und Betrug in diesem Umfeld. Warum nicht. ich denk es schaut mehr danach aus als ob jemand dosiert bitcoins auf den markt wirft ohne ihn crashen zu lassen oder anders gesagt immer wieder genug neue zum kaufen auf den markt wirft ich hab mich schon die ganze zeit gefragt was ist wenn zu viele bitcoins(von den 21 mio) auf den markt geworfen werden dann crashed er weil nicht genug neue buyer im markt sind wenn es langsam dosirt gemacht wird stärkt das den bitcoin schon mal an Bitpay gedacht, die wollen sicher ihre gesammelten Coins zwischendurch wieder zu Kohle machen!? BFL ist wohl auch ein Kandidat, scheinen immer noch nicht genug Cash zu haben, um Ihre 28nm Chips produzieren lassen zu können. |
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The biggest problem I'm seeing with KNC - why only the Neptune? I won't lend my thoughts to the sales technique of giving previous customers a better price and more lead time than a normal Joe off the street, but w[here]tf are the more reasonable units in regards to power consumption? There are a lot of folks who simply can't handle the type of power requirements that a Neptune needs, so while I could run a Saturn in every room of the house I rent due to an ingenious power arrangement, Neptune, even if my group wanted one, is just not possible.
Alright, I lied, so about the pricing... So early adopters pay $10k, newbies $13k. So they profit at least $3k per machine, of course a lot more since they wouldn't sell the first batch at-cost. Meaning KNC is making a mint off of people, but it seems like they (along with others) have forgotten that there is a fucking gigantic market that is drying up for the hobbyist community of miners who want to be "in the game" but can't get a custom electric line placed into their location. This is why Bitmain is selling every unit they produce in their "auctions" - you can't find something in the 100-400GH range readily available and people are jumping at the bit to get these things. A reasonably priced batch of Saturn/Mercury type units would sell out no problem at this point since KNC is 'proven', but all their store shows is the Neptune.
I don't know, seems to be a losing proposition since anyone who looks at KNC now that didn't previously order is likely in the "f this" camp and looking for a different vendor.
Take a look at this Phrase then imagine and relax!: Our first offering at 20nm is called Neptune following the naming convention from our 28nm range. Seems there will other machines announces follow. |
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konnte mich leider die letzten 2 Tage nicht einloggen... Aber jetzt kann ich ja nochmal drauf herumreiten, das ich das platzen der Blase genau 4 Stunden vorher an Hand meines Urins angekündigt habe!  Und jetzt sage ich voraus, das wir in ganz 2014 nicht bis zur 2000$ Marke vorstoßen werden! Im Gegenteil, da wir noch über Wochen in der Blasenenphase sind, werden wir noch weiter fallen und eine monatelange Depression wird kommen! Sorry. Asche über mein Haupt. Wer also Kohle braucht sollte lieber über die nächsten 2 Wochen auscashen. ...gut ! ich bräuchte dann in Zukunft mal ne Urinprobe von dir und zwar 1 x pro Tag ! ich glaube nicht an eine längere Seitwärtsbewegung / Depression der SR-Kurseinbruch hat nicht mal ne Woche gedauert, selbst wenn ein richtiger Crash noch käme, wäre der nach 2 - 3 Wochen ausgeschwitzt der Abstand zwischen den Blasen / Implosionen halbiert sich jedesmal [evtl viertelt er sich sogar]; ausserdem haben die Chinesen macro-ökonomisch fundamentale Gründe weiter in bitcoin zu investieren - btc hilft bei der $-Unabhängigkeit und ist für Privatleute als freie Devise einsetzbar ( zocken mit btc tun sie obendrein noch aus Leidenschaft ) Mein Urin gibt zZ. nichts weiter her... Ich hab jetzt mal was aus meinen Fingern gesaugt... Dafür das 2014 vergleichsweise mau aussehen wird, wird 2015 das Jahr des bitcoins - die 10.000$ Marke wird dann fallen und warscheinlich noch viel mehr! Wer also noch so lange warten kann... wird belohnt. Alle Körperfunktionen ohne Gewähr! |
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I bought a couple of Singles during the Black Friday sale and they went "In Production" this morning and are now showing "Fulfilled" on my order page. I haven't received a tracking number yet. I hope this is for real and not some more shenanigans.
If true, this would make BFL the only current ASIC vendor instantly fulfilling new orders from stock. Oh the irony!
but far overpriced, that is ironic too. |
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Informations:Thema: Monarch Information from BFL_Josh: There's been a bit of a delay at the foundry on our chips and scheduling. The sample chips have been delayed a few weeks (still waiting on an exact date), so this should only affect the earliest customers, who we've already contacted with regards to the delay. The majority of customers should not be affected much, if at all. When I have a specific date from the foundry, I will post an update here with a revised timeline. We still expect to ship the bulk of the orders in/around February. Anyone ordering now will probably not get their order until March or April, just as an FYI and in the spirit of trying to keep realistic expectations on shipping times. Due to the delay for the earliest people, the ones affected will be upgraded to the watercooled version for free. The watercooled Monarch will be a closed loop system, so no maintenance will be required.  BFL_Josh 12-09-2013, 03:30 PM at BFL:Last week, we met with the foundry to go over details of the delay and reach a definitive conclusion. According to the foundry, we should have the first chips on January 9th (still determining specific quantity), but we will be taking delivery of more wafers every week after that, so it really shouldn't affect anything as far as wafer availability goes, regardless of how many come on the 9th. At that point, chips are shipped to slicing, packaging and bumping, which is estimated to take roughly a week. After that, they are sent to our ASIC design team for testing. This may take up to a week, possibly longer but we believe it will be less than a week for chip bring up. Once the chip(s) are verified working and properly binned, they are sent to our facility in Chicago for mounting on boards and send to several places for more testing and final firmware programming. This should take another week or so. Once that is completed, we will begin shipping product - during this entire time, more wafers will be rolling off the line and going through the same process, so we should have plenty of chips available and ready to go by the time the units are actually ready to be shipped. I don't yet know what that count will be specifically, but it should be a fairly significant portion of the pre-orders. At this point, it looks like the only hold would pose a problem is if the chip didn't work properly for some reason, but we have no reason to believe that is going to be a problem, as the chip is based on our proven 65nm desgin. As usual, all of these times and dates are estimates only. It may take more time, it may take less time for each step, but that is the timeline we are working under right now, but it is subject to change. Right now, the plan is for everyone that has a current pre-order, you will be upgraded to the water cooled version of the Monarch for free to compensate for the slight delay.BFL_Josh 01-04-2014, 11:09 AM at BFLSince I haven't updated this in awhile, I just wanted to put in a quite update and let everyone know that we are still on target for the chips rolling out of the fab on the 9th of January. As soon as I hear something more, I will update here... but the 9th is still the day. As I said above, it will take ~1 week to get the chips sliced and packaged hopefully before we can begin chip testing in earnest... hopefully less than a week, but we all know how that goes.
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konnte mich leider die letzten 2 Tage nicht einloggen... Aber jetzt kann ich ja nochmal drauf herumreiten, das ich das platzen der Blase genau 4 Stunden vorher an Hand meines Urins angekündigt habe! Und jetzt sage ich voraus, das wir in ganz 2014 nicht bis zur 2000$ Marke vorstoßen werden! Im Gegenteil, da wir noch über Wochen in der Blasenenphase sind, werden wir noch weiter fallen und eine monatelange Depression wird kommen! Sorry. Asche über mein Haupt. Wer also Kohle braucht sollte lieber über die nächsten 2 Wochen auscashen. |
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Ach ja... und langsam kommt wohl wieder Bewegung in den Kurs.
ja, nach unten! |
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Das ist wieder die optimistische Linienführung! Wenn du die Linie tiefer setzt, haben wir den absolut gleichen Verlauf wie im April!
Es knallt in kürze, geht dann auf unter 500, und dauert wieder ein halbes Jahr bis zum ATH.
So sehe ich das im Moment. Sorry, bin da sehr konservativ!
Ich sehe da keinen Widerspruch zu meinen Ausführungen. Es knallt in Kürze: Zuspruch. Danach lange Seitwärtsbewegung: Sehe ich genauso. Noch nie waren wir uns so einige wie in diesem Moment Stimmt! |
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Der ganze Novembertrend ist eine einzige Blase denke ich! Wie sieht den die Jahres Linie jetzt aus?
So sieht der 2013er Trend aus:  Wenn es in den nächsten Tagen crasht (und davon gehe ich aus), werden wir wegen den Chinesen mehr als oberhalb der Line rauskommen. Also weniger als 400 USD werden's nicht sein. Aber auch nicht viel mehr - vielleicht 500 oder 600. Back to normal: Bisher Verdoppelung alle 2,5 Monate in 2013, ab dann vielleicht alle 2 Monate. Ist doch auch nicht soooo schlecht, oder? Das ist wieder die optimistische Linienführung! Wenn du die Linie tiefer setzt, haben wir den absolut gleichen Verlauf wie im April! Es knallt in kürze, geht dann auf unter 500, und dauert wieder ein halbes Jahr bis zum ATH. So sehe ich das im Moment. Sorry, bin da sehr konservativ! |
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