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21  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [117 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: December 21, 2013, 01:25:56 AM
That misses Stats 101

You're welcome to believe what you want, but I'm done interacting with you.  It's an observable fact that if high hashrate miners opt in to a higher share difficulty/target, the minimum share difficulty/target will come down for everyone else. Think of it as "magic" if that makes you more comfortable.
22  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [117 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: December 20, 2013, 01:41:37 PM
Unless there's some weird calculation in the p2pool code to push the base difficulty down

There is.
Well if there is than the statement on the main p2pool page is wrong also:

Quote
P2Pool creates a new block chain in which the difficulty is adjusted so a new block is found every 1030 seconds.

I of course updated the 10 to 30.

That statement would be false if what people are implying here is true.

To make a share average every 30s, it must use the submitted 1diff share rate to attempt to make that happen.
There is no other way to do it.

So again ...

Quote
If the difficulty drops it will also go up. It averages out to the same share difficulty.

So statistically you still get the same number of shares over time.

It's really not that complicated.  p2pool adjusts the minimum required share difficulty for shares so that a share will be found once every 30 seconds.  Now, if a bunch of people start to opt-in to a share difficulty much higher minimum requirement (doing so is a feature baked into p2pool), then obviously shares are going to start to be found less often.  In order for shares to continue to be found about once per 30 seconds, everyone else has to start finding them more often.  The only way they can find shares more often (with the same hashrate) is if p2pool lowers the minimum required share difficulty, and that's exactly what it does.
23  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: CGMINER ASIC FPGA miner monitoring fanspeed RPC linux/win/osx/mip/arm/r-pi 3.8.5 on: December 18, 2013, 08:24:09 PM
Sorry if this has been discussed earlier in this topic, but it's almost 700 pages long and I couldn't find anything while searching.

My question is regarding the --no-submit-stale option. Forgive my ignorance, but why would you ever want to submit a stale?

It depends on the pool.  On some pools, for example p2pool, a stale share may still be a valid block and so if you don't submit stales, you risk missing out on BTC.  Historically, there have also been pools that paid for stale shares and so you always wanted to submit them.  I don't know that any current pools still do that though.
24  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [117 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: December 18, 2013, 01:36:06 AM
p2pool can't pay fractions of a share, so the way it handles fees is that a 2% fee is that 2% of shares found by miners will be reassigned from the miner address to the node's address (randomly).  Because it is random, it will work out to 2% over the long term, but you won't see a consistent payment on a block by block basis unless you have a high enough hashrate that you're finding 100s of shares per block.

Makes sense! Thank you for the clarification.. so does it make sense for a miner to even mine on a node if he cannot hash fast enough to at least find one share per block?  I guess that miner would never get paid by p2pool if he never finds a share (due to a low hashrate)?

If you don't find shares very often, you won't always get a payment with every block.  When you do find a share, you'll get paid for the next several blocks (the number of blocks depends on how quickly they come, p2pool uses is PPLNS).  In the long run, it evens out, but the variability in payments (i.e. variance) can be very frustrating.  If that sort of thing seems like it would frustrate you, then don't mine on p2pool.  I, personally, wouldn't like the level of variance if my hashrate was only getting me 1 share every 12-24 hours (or worse).
25  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [117 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: December 17, 2013, 06:59:47 PM
Been trying to set up a few P2Pool nodes for mining alt-coins and I have some very basic questions that I can't seem to find the answers for. Hoping someone can chime in and help:

1. My first P2PNode is a private node and has the miner fee set to 2% (w/0.5% donation). I have a few miners mining for several hours and several blocks have been found, with payouts going to the miners; however, I have yet to see a payout to the payout address (current payout reads: 0).  Is this normal?  I thought 2% of each miner's payout would arrive at my set default payout address.

2. My 2nd P2PNode has miner fee set to 0%.  In this node, I should never see any payout to the default address (unless someone is mining with an invalid address), correct?

My concern is mainly with node #1 as why why I'm not seeing a payout at the default address. Does P2Pool payout the mining fee with every block found?  Or does it queue it up and send it later?

p2pool can't pay fractions of a share, so the way it handles fees is that a 2% fee is that 2% of shares found by miners will be reassigned from the miner address to the node's address (randomly).  Because it is random, it will work out to 2% over the long term, but you won't see a consistent payment on a block by block basis unless you have a high enough hashrate that you're finding 100s of shares per block.
26  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [117 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: December 17, 2013, 06:03:43 PM
If all of a sudden the network started finding lots of non-block-winning shares, luck would fall. If all of a sudden the network found fewer non-block-winning shares (but the same number of blocks), luck would rise.

Yes. This is why the hashrate graph shown in p2pool.info is "bumpy".  Hashrate is not really changing that much--it's mostly just luck/variance.

By the way, this is a limitation of all pools.  No pool knows how much hashing is actually being done by its miners.  Pools only knows what shares are being submitted then they estimate hashrates based on those submitted shares (and then they calculate luck based on those estimated hashrates).  Over a long enough period of time, the inherent share-finding-variance evens out.  So I personally have fairly high confidence that the 90 day luck number, in particular, is reasonably accurate and that the pool really did find about 18% more blocks in the last 90 days than it "should have".  Maybe the real number is 17% or 19%, but it's pretty close.

P.S.  I have no idea how p2pool knows the global DOA/stale rate, but it clearly does (or thinks it does) since it is displayed in the console output and is directly used to calculate efficiency.
27  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [117 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: December 17, 2013, 05:33:00 PM

It's that "hashrate over time as reported by p2pool, itself" that I'm asking about. This itself is, as I understand it, a calculated figure.

This answer raises another question, though. What's the "over time"? Is the time period that the hashrate was calculated over the same as the time period the number of blocks were counted over?

I guess the source code of p2pool would be the place to find the answers?

Both p2pool.info and p2pool, itself are open source, so yes, you can look at the code if you are curious. about the specifics

I don't know for sure how p2pool calculates pool hashrate for sure (forrestv will have to comment), but I generally understand it to be based on the number shares being found and I think it also includes some kind of adjustment to include DOA/orphaned shares as well.

p2pool.info collects and stores the hashrate of p2pool generally every 5 minutes. When a block is found, those 5 minute hashrate data points are used allong with the block's difficulty to calculate the luck of that "round".  Then, the luck of individual blocks are aggregated to come up with the 7, 30, and 90 day luck statistics.
28  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [117 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: December 17, 2013, 04:47:07 PM
Does the number of p2pool shares found include deads and orphans?

In any case, it sounds like what you're measuring is the luck in creating blocks vs. the luck in creating shares... At least, that's what you're measuring if you're including all the deads and orphans. If you're not including the deads and orphans, then your hash estimate is too low.

Is it even possible to measure deads and orphans? Not all of the network is necessarily going to see all of them...

good point - I'm not the one that quotes that +12% number, but that's about what the DOA+orphan rate is on the network that is also possibly viable blocks.

Does anyone know how p2pool.info does it?

A complete explaination is somewhere around page 100-120 I think Smiley

In a nutshell, the luck calculation is a comparison of the number of blocks that were actually found vs the number of blocks that should have been found (based on the pool's hashrate over time as reported by p2pool, itself).  When more blocks were found than were expected, luck is > 100% and vice versa.

Orphaned blocks are included in the count of found blocks because a block being orphaned or not has nothing to do with the mathematics of block finding probability and I wanted "100% luck" to equal "normal".  Certainly having blocks get orphaned is unlucky, but it's bad luck related to something different than the odds of finding a valid block.
29  Economy / Securities / Re: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement on: December 16, 2013, 05:57:43 PM
How small is this pool that we get screwed over this badly by "bad luck"?  I mined with BTCGuild for a few months before selling my rigs and any bad luck day to day there would get smoothed out by the "good luck" times over the course of a week so it would balance out.

You can trace the dividend payments backwards to see that the vast majority, if not all (I didn't trace every address) of the coins used to pay my dividend came from btcguild-mined blocks and btcguild payouts.  As such, I assume LRM is mining at btcguild.
30  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales now open ***full prototype pics*** on: December 14, 2013, 04:15:32 AM
Here is a closeup look at my card a v2.2 version H-card.  I don't see anything in that spot other than the trimpot.  Is it the trimpot, itself that needs the heatsink? Or that tiny thing labeled R01F?
The voltage regulator that needs to be heatsinked?  It's the dark gray integrated circuit in between C01R and the Pulse inductor.  I attached mine to the back rather than the front, though.  It is tricky either way because you do not want to accidentally short the other components.  On the front, the thermal conductivity is not as good.  On the back, the heat sink barely contacts the area where the regulator is attached due to live traces and components.

 So is it indeed the chip located above C01R that needs to stay cool ? For some-odd reason I thought it was C06 (SH 100 16V) that needed to stay cool. I guess it doesn't really matter as I have a hurricane blowing on those spots either way, but would be good to know...

 Thanks for the insight ! Guess it's off to EBay with me to buy a bag-o-heatsinks.

Yeah the one above C01R is the one you want it gets pretty hot. Its a night and day difference for my cards, it runs with the heat sink in those locations and it will just plain shut down without them.

Great.  I'll start looking for tiny heat sinks...  The VGA RAM heatsinks I have now are way too large for that tiny chip.
31  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales now open ***full prototype pics*** on: December 14, 2013, 02:02:53 AM

If you look at the picture here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.msg3516385#msg3516385 Just underneath and slighty to the right of the the big square Pulse thing ( I dont know what its called or what it does) there is a smaller square you want one on top of that smaller square, and one on the other side of the smaller square covering the exposed metal.

Here is a closeup look at my card a v2.2 version H-card.  I don't see anything in that spot other than the trimpot.  Is it the trimpot, itself that needs the heatsink? Or that tiny thing labeled R01F?

32  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales now open ***full prototype pics*** on: December 14, 2013, 12:57:41 AM
The biggest problems are Cooling and the Wobble caused by the cooling. You also really need the Heatsinks on the regulators.

Spotswood's Case Really Helps, stabalizes the Cards as well as allows you to get the fans right on the cards. Make sure to get high CFM fans as well.

My cards are all stabilized and have good fans directly next to the cards (similar to yours, but without the great case (I am on the waiting list for one)).  My rig is very stable with chainminer.  Just not with bfgminer or cgminer.  My only issue with chainminer is the lack of support for failover.

I'll try heatsinks.  Which piece is the voltage regulator and are there any gotchas or risks to be aware of?
33  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [2000 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan+NMC, Stratum, Private Servers on: December 13, 2013, 06:53:26 PM
is there still a getwork server?

No, you need to use a proxy.
34  Economy / Securities / Re: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement on: December 13, 2013, 06:52:04 PM
Why so much attention in pandering to those who just want to trade the stock?

It's not a stock. And it's questionably a bond.

Anyway, I don't think there is too much attention allotted to those that want to trade the bonds. Some would like to sell, but the price is very depressed. Why? It seems in-part because it can't be easily traded. Evidence of that is just looking at the price pre- and post- Bitfunder. So, if a person decides to sell now, they are forced to take a deeper loss because of a lack of a any easy/fast trading procedure. Why should someone that merely changes their mind on a holding be required to sell their position for a loss in-part because the way to trade it is only a little better than making a craigslist posting?

+1

That's me in a nutshell. 
35  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [875Th] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 # on: December 13, 2013, 06:46:25 PM
A simple minimum payout does not avoid the problem of receiving dust.

Ok, then I don't understand what you're asking for. 

The my payments are always 0.2xxxxxxx.  The only case where I would receive a dust payment is if I stop mining altogether at eligius right after I had received a payment, then eventually I would get my balance (no matter how small and dusty) as a payment.

Are you asking for payments to only ever be in clean multiples of some payment threshold?  So 0.20000000 but never 0.21738261?  I guess I can see the point if when you spend bitcoins, you only ever spend them in nice round numbers.  That hasn't been typical for my purchases (via BitPay), because of exchange rates, the merchants are often asking me to send them a payment of 0.162534 or whatever, and so even if my wallet was initially full of nice clean inputs, they wouldn't stay clean for long.
36  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales now open ***full prototype pics*** on: December 13, 2013, 06:37:27 PM
That was me.  The post is here; getting bfgminer running was pretty straightforward.  It needs to run as root to talk to the Bitfury hardware, but so does chainminer.  Action shot:

Thanks.  I did find you post and I used your image for a while, but my v3 hardware is apparently even more unstable than yours and while it does mine, there are still lots of errors and observed hashrate is about 20% lower than with chainminer (presumably because so many cores are erroring instead of hashing).

I wonder how viable it is for me to adjust the trimpots to reduce the voltage and un-overclock these just a little bit to increase stability.  I'd trade a little bit of hashrate for something that was more stable and for the ability to use a miner that gave me failover capabilities for when my primary pool is acting up.  But I don't own a voltage meter and I'm hesitant to just randomly start turning the trimpot "a little bit" counterclockwise.
37  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [875Th] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 # on: December 13, 2013, 04:18:57 PM
coinbase payouts do not matter to me...  I would rather have regular-sized payouts that reduce dust in the wallet (more friendly to the network).

i.e. payout at 0.1 BTC threshold.

Any chance of having that option?

Implementing that would have the side effect of not needing to put a set of addresses in the coinbase.



minimum payout can be configured here (I have mine set to 0.2):

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/mystats.php?cmd=options
38  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [875Th] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 # on: December 11, 2013, 10:45:56 PM
My November Jupiter is working fine (660 GH/s with 2% HW errors and 0.1% rejects), although I am using the cgminer-tune binary from here and I am using --load-balance to split my hashing between btcguild and eligius.

I have to correct myself.  I did a test where I pointed cgminer-tune at only eligius (not load balanced with btcguild), and in that configuration, I also see the 10% lower WU (and the 10% HW which I agree and understand are not real hardware errors, but are reported as hardware errors for some reason in cgminer).

It seems that by sending a portion of my hashing to btcguild, the problem was being masked.
39  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1900 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: December 11, 2013, 06:33:52 PM
eleuthria,

Have you considered lowering PPLNS fees to attract more miners?

GHash.IO appears to be growing at an alarming rate.

https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=24hrs

P.S. That chart based on faulty data and so usually quite inaccurate.  Use this one instead:

http://blockorigin.pfoe.be/chart.php
40  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales now open ***full prototype pics*** on: December 11, 2013, 04:33:21 PM
Does anyone know if it is possible to run any variation of cgminer or bfgminer on v3 boards?  I understand it wouldn't be officially supported, but I am willing to experiment a little and/or compile my own copy, etc.  I found some old forum posts elsewhere hinting that it might be possible, but they are very old and appear to be specifically for the v1/v2 boards and maybe were specific to the European version of the hardware (is there a difference?).

For reference, my reason for wanting to do this is that I am really trying to get my rig working with multiple pools.  At least for failover, but ideally for load balancing as well.  Both are built into cgminer/bfgminer.
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