What philosophical bullshit in this thread.

Government creates whatever laws they want, constitutional or unconstitutional, right or wrong, then they are enforced, then if it goes to the supreme court, the highest court in the land and the supposed last bastion of protection for the people, they hand down unconstitiontal opinion, and state their opinions are unconstitutional, when they are sworn to protect the people and protect the constitution.

Case in point ... police checkpoints and DUI stops. In their opinion the supreme court ruled, with dissenting opinion, that the overall collective good the checkpoints and dui stops do over-rides their minor constituional infringements.

Another prime example of government thinking the constitution is a worthless god damn piece of paper is the president ordering the assassination murder of american citizens without any due process, like some Star Chamber group of people in a back room somewhere doing what they want to whoever they want, when they want, however they want to do it just because they; can, are above the law, and they want to do it.

Hello? Is there anyone home ?

It boils down to force and it will come down to force and a war to get any freedom.

Pick a side.

Kings, Tribesmen, Rulers, Leaders, and Pharohs, etc.

The bloodlines did not anymore end than yours will end with your passing.

Do/did/will you hand down culture, heritage, and knowledge to your sons and daughters ?

The Treaty:
http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/assets/pdfs/acta-crc_apr15-2011_eng.pdf

Treaty Wiki Page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement

What it means (youtube):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Xg_C2YmG0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=citzRjwk-sQ

Please debate the message, not ad-hominem attacks against the messenger.

I dont believe David Ickes lizard theory, but I do believe he, like most other history and conspiracy researchers, get a lot right and a lot wrong, which is why its so important to do your own research. Read, watch, and listen to everyone and everything, believe nothing until you can prove it through your own research.

If you deny the elite ruling classes of today tracing their lineage back to ancient ruling classes, you have not done much research on the subject. They admit it and are proud of it. They even married within their own immediate families to preserve their wealth, then later only married families of other ruling classes to expand their land, areas of influence, and keep a firm hold on their wealth. Hell why do you think they have their buildings and property adorned with historic and ancient obilisks, stones, hieroglyphics, and statues? Let alone the symbology of their adornments, clothing, buildings, artwork, family shields, etc. Some even state they trace their historical beliefs and relation back to pre-biblical and biblical figures. Others, known as luciferians, trace it back beyond that, who believe knowledge is their God, and that they have the supreme right to rule and can become their own God through knowledge. Where do you think all that lineage went to? Just disappeared? You dont think these elite ruling classes teach their offspring from birth that they are better than everyone else, have the supreme right to rule and control the peasants? I guess class warfare is a fallacy too. If not, do you know where it actually came from?

Their beliefs go all the way back to the dawn of Man and the first "technology" that existed. Fire. Thats why fire is one of the prime symbols used in government and business today. Imagine being the first person who could manipulate and create fire. The first priests, the first rulers, the first scientists. They were God-like to the masses. You see, rulers, priests, and scientists always controlled the masses through fear and awe proved by a knowledge they knew but the masses did not. This is why government always has technology we dont know about until many many decades after the fact. They would demand the masses pay homage, sacrifice, and yes some form of physical contribution or donation, what we know today to be taxes, else they would darken the Sun on a specific date, cause sickness or plague, make it rain, cause a drought, threaten the end of the world using a knowledge unknown to the masses as supposed "proof". The peasants were you and me. Dumb citizens enslaved, scratching and grinding away an existance, paying taxes to make the rich richer so they didnt have to work. They lived then off our backs, blood, sweat, and tears, just how todays elite live off our back, blood, sweat, and tears. Only today we know more, so their psychology and technology have improved dramatically. Are we any less controlled and enslave though?

The use of occult (clandestine, hidden, secret) knowledge and technology has been around since there was the first ruler, scientist, and priest, and they often worked together to enslave and control the masses through psychology, fear, then pure force when the former did not work. Of course, the people almost always eventually found them out and revolted against such tyranny and oppression as the masses intellect and knowledge grew.

Your beliefs and my beliefs simply do not matter. What matters are the beliefs of people who can affect you, your property, your wealth, and your very life. Much like its the beliefs of they guy walking down the street behind you or lurking in an alleyway is what matters, because when he decides to infringe upon you with a weapon, your beliefs become completely irrelevent.

I recommend you start doing some in-depth research as to the true history of the world. I was once like you. I was right in line with the propaganda, indoctrination, and manipulation of our controllers. I though those conspiracy theorists were nutbags, until I started seeing to many coincidences, released government documents through FOIA requests, and started reading their own words. I dont think the history really matters today, other than a catalyst to jump that fence into believing there really are elites in the world screwing you at every turn. After you can see and believe that, the rest falls into place and allows you to move on to trying to educate others and figure out a solution.

What DOES matter is what they are doing to us to steal our wealth, enslave us, control us, oppress us, and take our sovereignty and freedom from us, all in the name of the latest fear they need us to believe in to attempt to justify it all.

It's about freedom. Nothing else.

In order to be free we must let others be free.

Now, if you do not want to be free, and advocate our enslavement, you are the enemy of freedom and freedom seeking people, and should be prepared to do battle with them. Are you prepared to fight and die for your entitlements and benefits against those fighting for their freedom and sovereignty, and against our enslavement ?

Pick a side ... it's coming ... I suggest choosing freedom.

it boils down to force.

someone with more force than you, will always [be able to] take whatever you have, and most likely will attempt to justify it in whatever way that they can to make themselves or 3rd parties feel better about it, agree to it, or not quiestion it [see: justifications, propaganda, ideological indoctrination, psychological manipulation, education, etc]

we have no rights or property if we can not protect it with force.

this has been the problem since the dawn of Man to this very day.

there is someone who always wants more of what you got, then takes it by force or threat of force.

I have no political beliefs in this debate other than the belief that this debate is being used by others for an insidious agenda that includes, but certainly is not limited to, politics.

I believe in freedom.

To be free you can not infringe on another in excersising your own rights.

You, on the other hand, wish to enslave people and steal their wealth and property, or at a very minimum you agree with it.

Does not matter the reasons or the justifications handed to us. Its infringement... enslavement. I do not believe any of the threats of human extinction we have been inundated with over the last century are real or credible, and even if I did, that does not change the fact that it moves us from freedom into enslavement of the citizens and shackles them with oppressive debt. It's no different than a pharoh or king hundreds to thousands of years ago, who, ironically enough, are the very bloodlines of the elites behind this insidious agenda today. To me, its simply about trying to control, financially rape, and enslave us.

The rest of the discussion is simply bastardized scientific and philosophical hogwash attemtping to somehow justify the move from freedom back to enslavement of the masses.

It's not increases from advertising. That irrelevent. Thats a comparison between YOUR SYSTEM and ours. Advertising does not explain away the comparison between pre and post Obamacare being penned into law in MY SYSTEM, which, ironically enough, is the only system I am talking about at present.

Thing is... its happening ... and NOT on the level of cost of living and inflation ... its WAY WAY WAY WAY above those minor increases that only happen over longer periods of time. Never this much of an increase this quickly.

We are not supposed to have a democracy. No where in our founding documents does that word even exist, and just so you know, "democracy is indispensable to socialism". I think Lenin said it.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.

Democracy is mob rules.. meaning you have no rights other than what other people give you by a vote, and can take any of them away by a vote, so if tomorrow its voted upon to kill you, you're dead.

Thats why we're supposed to have a constitutional republic (in America). Not that I think its anything special. It isnt. It was designed to let the rich get richer off the backs of the working class, and keep the poor working class slaves, poor working class slaves, while letting us think we have rights they cant take away..

Medical costs are rising as well. So are perscriptions. The problem is the bastardized legislation. It basically gives the gov the free reign to raise our taxes more, allows insurance companies to charge us more for the same coverage, raise medical and medicine prices .... everything goes up... and many more problems wth it. Your system is obviously much better in comparison to Obamacare. This in no way is an admission that I agree with universal health insurance/care at all. I dont. But if they are going to shove this bullshit down my throat, at least do it in a way that doesnt make me go broke and is somewhat fair to the taxpayer. There is no way to justify doubling my insurance rates, let alone making me pay for it in my taxes.

The points you guys are not getting are:

• The police do not prevent crime, so the population can not rely on them. They only react to crime.
• The police have no legal responsibility to protect you.
• A population sufficiently able to defend themselves reduces crime.
• A population sufficiently able to defend themselves makes communities safer.
• There should be much stiffer penalties for crimes that cause loss,  injury, or death. Preferrably an eye for an eye.
• Penalizing criminals on their own level (an eye for an eye) would decrease crime.

I have no interest in being humane when the people trying to steal from, harm, or kill me and my family are considerably less than humane. Its pure barbarism what they do and they deserve no less in return, but again, the state needs that crime. Thats why criminals are treated so well.

I do not consider protection and preparedness a hobby, but rather a way of life. Much like preparing for disaster, catastrophy, emergencies, hard economic times, outdoor survival, food storage and prep, weaponry, ammunition, medical, and  skillsets for long term off the grid survival like farming, multiple ways to obtain potable and gray water, livestock raising, turning said into usable products, and general ways to lessen the expenses of everyday life (heating, electricity, communications, etc) . Self-sufficiency, self-reliance, and true sustainability has been educated out of todays kids for the most part, but this country was founded on those skills and principles. We need to return to them.

Thankfully my state passed the Castle Doctrine, which allows much broader home defense without the criminal and civil liabilities involved. Even without that, I would much rather be judged by 12 than have me or one of my family carried by 6 to the grave.

Criminals needs to realize there are more and more like me out here everyday that will take care of business when infringed upon.

Oh and when your entitlements party comes to an end and you no longer get those benefits stolen from responsible taxpayers like me,  and you have no ability or skills to fend for yourselves, people like you guys will be the first ones to revolt, blame people like me for preparing because we have and you have not, and some may even  come after us who has paid your dues for so long... and we are ready, willing, able, and waiting for you.

Things are going to get much worse financially. People refusing to prepare now will be homeless, cold, and hungry. Homeless, cold, and hungry people trying to survive wont care about police, prisons, or laws.

And if a collapse occurs that goes beyond the financial and the grocery store shelves become bare, where do you think the criminals will go. Right to our farms and homes. That will be their grocery store. I really dont think this will happen, a total collapse of society, but I am preparing for it.

Look up the funding sources and their history.

1. Then you wouldnt be any worse off than you are right now.

2. Of course they are deserving of freedom, but freedom requires participation and some action on your part.

At least in my solution there is a realistic expectation of protecting oneself instead of relying on the police who only react to crime, not prevent it... and the criminal will actually learn from their crimes and not be constantly traveling through a revolving door because an eye for an eye is way worse than 3 hots and a cot in prison.

In fact, according to Warren v. District of Columbia, the supreme court held and affirmed that the police have absolutely no obligation to protect a citizen unless under special circumstances, like being detained or while in custody.

You think and eye for an eye is barbaric? I agree. Almost as barbaric as the criminal infringing upon me or my family.

Not to be unfeeling, but weak people who refuse to prepare and protect their families deserve whatever they get. All they have to do is educate themselves, buy weapons, learn how to use them safely, and practice. Confidance will come with experience and repitition. Physical defense classes may also as well as build confidance. Also they should build community support structures for assistance.

The thing many do not realize is that it does not matter what the law says or how the police react. There is so much crime today specifically because of the high chance they wont be caught and disciplined. They know most homes and families are not prepared to be infringed upon. They know most soley rely on the cops who only react. They know the government is trying to take the guns. They know hunting is decreasing becasue of the over harvesting of antlerless deer herds, which frustrates hunters, meaning less hunting and less guns.

In the end the only rights you have will be taken away if you lack the ability to defend those rights from infringement. Criminals could care less about laws when they want what you got and no oneor nothing is around to stop them.

A criminal could come over to your house right now and do what they want regardless of the law and the police, and there would be nothing you could do about it if their force was greater than yours. If your force was greater than their and they knew there was a high likelihood you would kill or maim them, they would avoid you like the plague.

Most simply do not understand the mind of a criminal.

Sure it does, so long as you have the force capable of stopping any infringement from occurring, using an eye for an eye justice system that had worked so well for thousands of years. People would learn very quickly the perils of infringing on another, so they would move to weaker targets or change their ways. I think expecting the government to take on all responsibility iny our life to be the more immature choice... but in reality we dont have much of a choice until millions stand in unison against the current system, but they need to wake up first. I would have no qualms with shooting a criminal bent on depriving me or my loved ones of their rights, nor metering out eye for an eye discipline/punishment.

Jim says, "hey bill, how'd you lose your finger?"

Bill replies, "I stole from a guy and he cut it off after he shot me."

Bill was talking to Jim while they were working. Bill realised its safer to get a job instead of stealing.

They need crime to justify the costs of the corrections, law enforcement, and judicial systems, which is why they do so little to stop crime. They react to crime and are thankful their efforts to increase it have worked so well. Its a never-ending cashflow turnstyle and each new ordinance and statute law makes more and more criminals out of a once law-abiding citizenry. You know, thats the difference between most low end criminals and law abiding citizens. The Law. You were once a rural farm, then the local municipality rezones your land unbeknownst to you. Your fields of wild grass are now considered a "lawn". Let your "lawn" grow more than 6 inches, you get a fine every day until its cut because all of a sudden your rural land thats now rezoned is called "in blight" or "blighted". Dont pay the fine, the cops show up, cuff you, and take you to prison until you see a judge and pay it, else you stay in prison "earning" $10 a day until its paid. Thats the jist of our justice system at work. Mostly is raping law abiding citizen for the Kings Taxes just like the King's Sheriff used to do.

The majoroty of fire departments here in America are 100% volunteer. They survive on the good intentions and donation from the community. They ahve festival, bake sales, events, and yard/garage sales to make money and buy equipment, and often local business "advertise" with them in their circulars for money. Only in the cities do you have paid and unionized fire departments using public tax funds. The vonunteer fire companies would also work for the cities, because responsible citizens realize the importance of the services they provide, just like in suburban and rural areas.

Public roads are 100% paid for by tolls, state taxes on gasoline, and the funds from users of state DMV's.

National Defense is an absolute must, but not the Armies of the American Empire we have today policing the world and acting as the strong arm of the political elite, international conglomerates, and banking interests which parallel the interest of the state. National Defense comes from corporate taxation. Its their economic interested they protect the most. Just ask George Herbert Walker Bush who used them to sieze land for the United Fruit Company's (think chaquita banana), a left wing company I might add, use in the 1980's and Iraq in the 1990's when they wanted to accept only gold for their oil reserves. It was an interesting buyout really as Zapata and Textron both bid on UFC for the CIA contracts, but Eli Black won out... but thats another story related to Bush and the CIA. The thing here is how the US MIlitary is often used with the costs put on the taxpayer through higher product prices as well-connected coporations rarely lose money and pass any cost increates, including taxation, on to the consumer. Anotehr is afghanistan, the oil pipeline to the caspian sea port, the caspian seaport itself, and of course the opium the Taliban had outlawed under penalty of death, that the US Military allowed to be restarted making Aghani opium to once again regain its above 90th percentile of world supply ranking. I could go on for hours alone on the US military and "national defense".

Most utilities are already deregulated, which was great preparation for the draconian enviromental laws increasing the costs on industries relying on fossil fuels, like coal, which powers the majority of the electricity generation in the United States, allowing them to raise the prices to make electric heat in the home prohibitavely expensive for most. This is fine if you have the money to pay it, but people who dont have the money to pay it, has to either pay out even more money up front to retro-fit or get new heating technology installed that uses a less expensive heating medium, like propane, natural gas, fuel oil or coal or wood stoves, the latter two which are least expensive but prohibited in some locations and the stoves generally run $800-$2500, where furnaces for the others can run $1500-$4500. Land line telephone, water, and sewage costs have all skyrocketed in response.

right

It is not trivial, ergo the debate and my almost doubled health care insurance rates.

No, the expensive part is the administrative costs. You have that in both public and private system. Due to the inefficiency of government, public systems would be more costly, especially so In the United States where the Internal Revenue Service is charged with Administration and Enforcement issues on top of the existing administration costs incurred by the insurers actually doing the insuring. Thats why my insurance rates have almost doubled since ObamaCare was signed into law, requiring all citizens to be insured under penalty of fines and imprisonment.

I am not an unkind nor unfeeling person. I think everyone should have access to health care, but they need to pay for it, which is why my work camp idea would work great. It simply isnt right to steal off people at the point of a gun and call it legal because some have been put down and disenfranchised to the point they are unable to care for themselves. I believe its all part of a plan to steal our state sovereignty, freedom, liberty, land, and wealth.

The system needs reset, but the utopian throw all your shit in a pile and share isnt the way to go about it.

All it takes to be enslaved is to be unvoluntarily obligated.

Absolutely.

I walk in, get care, and pay my bill. Nothing more efficient than that.

No beaurocracy, no overhead, and no paperwork involved other than my invoice of services rendered.

Being free or public does not make it more efficient than paid or private.

Even if insured, the insurance company gets the bill and I pay nothing at the time of the visit.

Health insurance should not be a right. Health care should not be a right. If people fail to prepare, it may sound harsh, but they need to pay for what they steal. I bust my fucking ass to prepare and save because I am a responsible person. Last thing I need is someone stealing my ability to provide for my family at the point of a gun because they have failed to prepare. Every penny they steal off me lessens my ability to provide for my own responsibilities.

We need work camps for the people who cant take care of themselves, and I have posted about this before, which relates to all forms of welfare, including health care: