This is true, but I was going for invoked imagery rather than technical accuracy.

As mentioned earlier I think "Bitcoin" is a great term already. The problem is it doesn't bring anything descriptive to mind upon first hearing it. Someone says hey Bitcoin! I'd say, great, er.. what the heck is that? But if someone says digital Internet gold! I'd say that sounds quite interesting... now what's that about?

I've refined my choice of words, and I did this before seeing the new comments between this one and my last one:

digital Internet gold

This just makes sense to me, especially when I imagined thoughts invoked by each word:

digital - this gives the impression of technology

Internet - gives an impression of strength and credibility. Pretty much "Internet" anything carries weight nowadays.

gold - everyone associates this with something of precious value, even if they are not aware of gold's non-inflationary monetary qualities.

I agree with this. People will soon learn what Bitcoin actually is. However, my vote is for describing it as "special Internet money, with qualities similar to gold".

If someone had instead described Bitcoin to me this way, I would probably have gotten involved a lot sooner. As it was I  missed the point entirely.

Keep drinking OJ, and give it 24 hours. One dose should be enough but it only helps to have more. Vitamin C will kick your body's natural defense into gear. Keep insulated and you should move to the recovery part of the cold cycle quickly.


The bitcoin community currently consists mostly of technocrats. These are not your primary customers and will mostly look after their own coin management. Your customers (fortunately for you) are the majority of the populace, and begin to frown at anything with more than one or two big shiny red buttons.

Bitcoins are highly complex to understand and manage successfully. Absent severe market pressures most wouldn't even attempt using them in raw form. This means services are badly needed to make bitcoins more user friendly. Currently there are no market pressures, and the people who hold bitcoins do so for investment/speculation primarily. Taking the management/security responsibility off these users for no fees is quite a favor.

As market forces do develop average users will definitely need/seek banking services, and even be inclined to pay for it. The business model of no account fees employed by Flexcoin is good in a promotional sense, and naturally supports bitcoin adoption but I wouldn't be too shy about fees especially as things develop.

If it's a cold be sure to drink/eat an orange for 100% vitamin C.

No, Flexcoin says clearly in their terms they are not responsible for covering lost coins. James Gray has said he sees no reason to change the terms for now.

I would like to see a bitcoin bank provide some level of insurance against loss (a bitcoin version of FDIC), even if they have to charge for it. However, I don't see this as imperative. Flexcoin, as the first bitcoin bank, doesn't cover loss and that's fine because they are clear about it. Their customers can make their own decisions about the risk of banking with them, trusting essentially they will do everything they can to protect deposits. For many users in exchange for convenience (and along with reputation) this will be enough.

Why so? On the contrary I believe it quite necessary. Most people will not want to manage the storage of their coins, even with some of the nifty advances we've seen with wallets and the Armory client. These are supposed to be for average users, but even this is too much hassle. The really average user doesn't care about how safe such things are from a technical standpoint; they only want a place to store their coins without thinking about it, and they'll pay if they have to.

For a bitcoin bank I actually believe it needs to be more. Please see my #3 above.

Fantastic!

As I noted in an earlier post I see a bank as a crucial pillar to first level economic infrastructure above the raw system. I was therefore a bit disappointed to see that Flexcoin was putting itself on sale.

But sometimes setbacks mean opportunity, and that's what this appears to be. I'm looking forward to the new offerings in Flexcoin's future under new ownership.

@the founder - thanks for being a pioneer and bringing the community a bitcoin bank which has gained respect.

@mark_logan - congratulations! Looking forward to seeing where Flexcoin goes from here. A question... will Flexcoin still meet the 3 criteria which I believe are crucial for a bitcoin bank?

1. Emphasis on properly securing Bitcoins
2. Clearly spelled out terms (originally they are not responsible for insuring bitcoin loss)
3. Transparency of corporate entity in legally respected country like US or UK

The suggestion is people with decent wealth who presumably have no problem maintaining significant offline hashing capacity; this doesn't need to be most people.

Insurance companies are businesses first, insurance companies second. The goal of any for profit business is profit first, not necessarily to be risk averse. This means it's logical to provide tornado insurance in "tornado alley" or earthquake insurance in California; just calculate high enough premiums to ensure profitability. The question boils down to whether or not enough customers will agree to your fees. Given the opportunities/possibilities Bitcoin provides I think there would be some tolerance of rates.

Overall I think the OP is definitely on to something with "on call" surprise hashing capacity. I also think insurance companies might play a role. However, I think a more straightforward source is bitcoin banks, businesses, etc. - anyone with decent wealth having interest in seeing bitcoin succeed as the OP notes. There can be an understanding promoted people are encouraged to participate in such a concerted defense action.

The "score", as I call it, is money (bitcoins) you load or bitcoins you get for selling things you acquire in game. The point is the larger the number under your name the more respect you get. It's like showing how committed / involved you are with that forum and gaming/trading in general. Yes, someone could just drop $100 in, but so could others. And people do buy status (characters, weapons etc.) all the time in games - and in real life, for example with cars or even the iPhone  "I am rich" app.

You're obviously not a gamer. Gamers like scores  

The higher the better. And there is always the option to go after significant money, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

Once new users get exposed to Bitcoin they may explore more and actually become bitcoiners.

@Superior - is there anything the Bitcoin community can do to help you? There is obvious interest in seeing ogrr.com succeed.

@the founder - thanks for the update. It make perfect sense. While the U.S. dollar is in decline, Greece is like a preview and will have a catastrophe first.  

Some may remember I posted a topic called How to Grow Bitcoin. It didn't receive support I'm guessing because people thought it unworkable, but it was based on matching Bitcoin to real world localized economies. I'm still highly confident in the concept although I've shelved trying to put it in practice because it bootstraps an economy from the very bottom.

Most in the world are accustomed to living in advanced economies, with the U.S. at the top level. Telling people to abandon their grocery stores in favor of private party exchange of fruits, home baked bread, or raw fish, while in line with naturally healthy eating, would not be a popular line of thinking.

However, what did occur to me is that Bitcoin is global, and the economy could work anywhere, perhaps being more favorable in less developed areas of the world. But I don't readily speak other languages or otherwise have the means to organize such a project from a distance, at least not without local support.

I had Greece in the back of my mind, though, when I saw the following article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/world/europe/in-greece-barter-networks-surge.html?pagewanted=all

It's basically about how some have put together their own barter networks, Craigslist style, with the help of the Internet. Of course, they use payment systems inferior to Bitcoin that nonetheless at least allow things to work.

So you say several thousand users at FlexCoin from Greece? My question would then be is there any way to identify their proximity to one another? Greece could be ripe to set up localized but full fledged economies where Bitcoin is the de facto currency.

Geez, I didn't even think about this. It could be very big indeed. I focused on a real world economy for Bitcoin, but the virtual world makes perfect sense. And I expect these kids to take to Bitcoin like fish to water.

Gaming is huge. I used to be a gamer. If game developers incorporated bitcoins the opportunities would be staggering. I once competed in a Mortal Kombat tournament, but in the real world. I would have loved to compete virtually with real money available, and for different game titles; or be able to collect real bitcoins instead of normal game coins. I'd never leave the game.

It'll probably take time before game companies tap into that ginormous gold mine, but this ogrr.com forum is a great fit. There already exists trades of value, so all that's needed is a facilitating currency.

The priority for ogrr.com should be making usability as easy as possible. The currency shouldn't get in the way. It should be super simple to send BTC between other forum members, and deposing/withdrawing from the system should be straightforward and efficient with 24hr turnaround if not automated, and of course much faster if it is. Then growth wouldn't be hindered.

True, but that still implies beforehand knowledge or a guess that large BTC sites would have a host in common. Then upon gaining the target is it really that inconsequential to gain such high level access to Linode, such a respected Linux host, as evidenced by them being a common denominator among sites? (although I suppose that could be the basis for such a guess... but still, then to easily gain access? Either Linode is guilty or they shouldn't be hosting anyway.)

^ sound thoughts.

I'm sorry but this looks like an inside job at Linode to me. There is also the theft from slush and the bitcoin faucet (and who knows who else), so a total of over 13,000 BTC or about 65K USD market value. Supposedly some outside hacker knew different high value sites would have Bitcoin wallets on Linode?

That's true, but that could be a plus. You only receive credit for a bill re-entered outside your state, so the best way to improve your chances is to label more bills...