Bitcoin Forum
May 04, 2024, 12:10:35 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 [58] 59 »
1141  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][EMC2] Einsteinium | Funding the future with the future of currency on: May 22, 2014, 04:15:12 PM
And I would say X11. There is a lot of fear of ASIC being released soon for new algos just because people fear it, not because of the viability. It needs to be profitable before even starting R&D to create an ASIC.  And we've all seen that R&D phase takes about 1 year , and another year to produce. Also the more an algo resembles general purpose comouting, the less attractive it is to develop one because the speed increase over GPU isn't as obvious. Therefor X11, even if it's the faster growing algo atm, it will need to become A LOT more mainstream before any thoughts of ASIC.

so you just kick the can down the road for a year and then what?
the 50 million market cap of X11 coins has already provided the incentive to make X11 ASICS viable and real.
there are already ASIC designs for multi algo chips that have 5 of the X11 algorithms. How hard could it be to add the circuits for the rest.
this is childsplay for chip design companies in china that can operate on a few million dollars a year.

merge mining solves the problem of A) attracting miners and B) keeping the network secure from 51% and timewarp attacks.
it also allows you to put up taxes because no miner is going to complain about higher taxes on coins they get for free while mining another coin....

the panic about ASICs is just that... PANIC and nothing else. hysteria is not a new phenomenon and anyone who knows about it understands that the last thing you should do is base financial and economic decisions on it.

While I totally agree about A) and B), could you explain to me the existence of free coins and what happens with them. Lets think about the hypothetical scenario with just two existing coins A and B, both are mined seperately, both have the same market price and for simplicity same number of coins. Now you change to merged mining. The group which mined A dumps B at market price and the gruop which used to mine B dumps A at market price, A buys coin A on the market and group B buys coin B. To my understanding the number of coins will not change (the difficulty will increase), the market price will be constant, every member of each group ends up with the same number of coins. The only difference is that they are mined by different persons (plus the network is more secure). Now where exactly are the free coins that you can tax and no one cares about it?

I think the scenario with 2 coins can be carried over to the reality, the outcome will not change. You can add different demand, more coins, different prices, dont think it changes anything.


Really, I am just trying to understand.


no worries buddy I will try to elaborate...

Merge mining is the process of doing Mining (PoW) calculations for one coin where the proof is then used to secure another coin or several other coins.

For example.

Bitcoin is mined... but you can also merge mine Namecoins if you choose.

Now lets say that you choose to mine Just Bitcoins...

lets say that with your new wizbang mining rig you manage to get 1 bitcoin per day.

if you mine Just bitcoins then thats all you get.. just one bitcoin a day..

however if you then decide to mine Namecoins which are merge mined with Bitcoin..
you would still get your 1 BTC a day plus some namecoins..

this is how merge mining works.. the same work (calculations) you did to find a block in Bitcoin is used to find blocks in Namecoin.

so if you merge mine Bitcoin and Namecoin then the namecoins you get are essentially free (because they dont cost you anything more to produce.)


now take that example and apply it to EMC2.

If Merge Mining was adopted, a person mining Litecoin for example, could also mine EMC2 at the same time. So the EMC2 they get are essentially free.

now given the choice between mining just Litecoin OR Litecoin and EMC2 (merge mined) most (but not all) miners would choose to mine both.
this means that most of the hashing power being used to find blocks and secure the Litecoin network would also be used to Secure the EMC2 network (so the difficulty and network hash rate would skyrocket)
This also means that since those EMC2 are being created for free by virtue of the shared proof of Work ie merge mining, most miners will still Merge mine even if you put the taxes up because they are still getting more coins than if they just mined only Litecoin or only EMC2.

the added bonus of course is that those miners get their hands on some EMC2 without having to buy them on exchanges.. so they become new users.

now according to network effect theory.. the more people you have using a product or service.. the more valuable it becomes. (you can read up on that if you dont already know about it... I don't think I need to explain it here) therefore getting EMC2 into the hands of more miners people is always a good thing...

so merge mining really does solve most of the problems a small coin like EMC2 could have.

If you think it all sounds too much like fantasy magic money theory... it really isn't.. just look at how Namecoin and Bitcoin merge mining works.. they were the first to merge mine but since then many other coins have gone down that path.


To answer the second part of your question I think your are a little confused about how markets work.. People may mine at a certain price and expect to sell at that level.. but that rarely happens. In a bear market Miners are forced to sell much lower than they were anticipating due to factors such as more efficient competitors and electricity bills or a crisis in confidence...
that's what is happening to EMC2 currently... many people mined thinking they were going to be able to sell at 800 satoshi are now being forced to sell at 133 satoshi because they either have financial commitments or simply lost their nerve. GPU miners are also competing directly with Scrypt ASIC miners who can mine the same coins for less than 10% of the power. The point is though, that the market (ie the collective wisdom of everyone participating) adjusts the price to reflect all of those factors..  (This is called Market efficiency theory)... so regardless of what action is taken, or not taken.. and what manipulation happens.. the market should in theory adjust back to its true value. That's really just a long winded way of saying.. you don't have to worry about the people who mined before a EMC2 switches over to a new PoW system and the people who mined after because the market will adjust accordingly.

in reality the only thing you have to worry about is growing the pie, increasing investor/user confidence and securing the network.. if you do that then the market and price of EMC2 will grow.

sorry if that was too long winded.. I do tend to ramble sometimes.

EDIT: BTW I was talking about the mining tax that is used to fund Einsteinium projects...


Wow, really good explanation
1142  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][EMC2] Einsteinium | Funding the future with the future of currency on: May 22, 2014, 03:22:37 PM
And I would say X11. There is a lot of fear of ASIC being released soon for new algos just because people fear it, not because of the viability. It needs to be profitable before even starting R&D to create an ASIC.  And we've all seen that R&D phase takes about 1 year , and another year to produce. Also the more an algo resembles general purpose comouting, the less attractive it is to develop one because the speed increase over GPU isn't as obvious. Therefor X11, even if it's the faster growing algo atm, it will need to become A LOT more mainstream before any thoughts of ASIC.

so you just kick the can down the road for a year and then what?
the 50 million market cap of X11 coins has already provided the incentive to make X11 ASICS viable and real.
there are already ASIC designs for multi algo chips that have 5 of the X11 algorithms. How hard could it be to add the circuits for the rest.
this is childsplay for chip design companies in china that can operate on a few million dollars a year.

merge mining solves the problem of A) attracting miners and B) keeping the network secure from 51% and timewarp attacks.
it also allows you to put up taxes because no miner is going to complain about higher taxes on coins they get for free while mining another coin....

the panic about ASICs is just that... PANIC and nothing else. hysteria is not a new phenomenon and anyone who knows about it understands that the last thing you should do is base financial and economic decisions on it.

While I totally agree about A) and B), could you explain to me the existence of free coins and what happens with them. Lets think about the hypothetical scenario with just two existing coins A and B, both are mined seperately, both have the same market price and for simplicity same number of coins. Now you change to merged mining. The group which mined A dumps B at market price and the gruop which used to mine B dumps A at market price, A buys coin A on the market and group B buys coin B. To my understanding the number of coins will not change (the difficulty will increase), the market price will be constant, every member of each group ends up with the same number of coins. The only difference is that they are mined by different persons (plus the network is more secure). Now where exactly are the free coins that you can tax and no one cares about it?

I think the scenario with 2 coins can be carried over to the reality, the outcome will not change. You can add different demand, more coins, different prices, dont think it changes anything.


Really, I am just trying to understand.


I agree with you. Here emc2 have already his purpose. By securing the network you allow the community to concentrate on expanding the usefulness of the coin, not only on giving for research but for buying things too. If you want the price to rise you need people to spend the coin.
Creating a coin with with the only purpose of merge mining it will probably ,in mid term,  result in no value. I don't think it will happen to emc2 since it was built with something else in mind.

I don't think asics are as a big threat as everybody seems to think, let's see what will happen.

We could merge mine with digibyte  Tongue
1143  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][EMC2] Einsteinium | Funding the future with the future of currency on: May 21, 2014, 02:23:29 PM
Without changing the algorithm, I do not see any prospects for this coin.

Lets make merged mining with vertcoin. And change algo to scrypt-n.
If you need help with this, let's turn to vetcoin community, I think they will be happy to help us.




Changing algo could be a good thing, i would have no problem mining vert and emc2 at the same time but i don't think the community would like the scrypt-n effect on gpu's. it's an idea we have to see as a good option for the future (short and long term)
1144  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][EMC2] Einsteinium | Funding the future with the future of currency on: May 20, 2014, 09:40:54 PM
time to buy  Grin. thanks for the update.
1145  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][EMC2] Einsteinium | Funding the future with the future of currency on: May 20, 2014, 04:13:46 PM
Let's put EMC2 back together, it's worth it. Nothing is easy, a long travel is ahead of us. Let's do this  Grin
1146  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Which Cryptocoin has the Best Design? - Selection of 50 Cryptocurrencies on: May 18, 2014, 09:14:49 PM
vote emc2
1147  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WIll Darkcoin reach $1000 by the end of 2014? on: May 16, 2014, 05:25:53 PM
coin is nice I sold them when it was 6 times low but now I want to by it

wait for the drop then buy back
1148  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][EMC2] Einsteinium | Funding the future with the future of currency on: May 13, 2014, 12:58:33 AM
Let me buy cheap coin on mintpal Sad

 Grin

Edit: Thanks I got my coins   Cheesy

that's the way to do things Tongue, i'll get some soon too.
1149  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][EMC2] Einsteinium | Funding the future with the future of currency on: May 12, 2014, 10:30:23 PM
troll ^^, I will buy at 100 satoshi. that's a no brainer.

Dude, if a coin goes from 100 to 800 in 4 weeks that might require less thought than the same coin going from 800 to 100 in 4 weeks.  



when you start to have success, people will start to hate. The more success you'll have, more hate will be pointed toward you. Keep up the good work guys.


Huh???  "success"Huh

65% (770 to 270) devaluation in 15 days isn't success, nor anything to be envious of.


Any and ALL coins with a performance record like that have no reason whatsoever to expect praise of CC investors.

As it concerns EMC2 investors on top of the 65% loss they also carry the 2% mining tax, the weighted aggregate loss is near 70% for them. 

God forbid said miners ask for a different way to mine.   yep, "success"  [idiot]








Lots of people jumped in when it was at 700 sat, people started to realize what it was. Profitability was high, now we see a lot of people dumping their coins to jumped in the next hyped coin. Show me one coin that didn't dropped in his lifetime. The way a coin survive is by going through rough time like this. If emc2 is meant for success it will rise again, if not it will die (would be sad to see this since it's bringing something new to the crypto's)
1150  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][EMC2] Einsteinium | Funding the future with the future of currency on: May 12, 2014, 07:26:33 PM
when you start to have success, people will start to hate. The more success you'll have, more hate will be pointed toward you. Keep up the good work guys.
1151  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MON | Monocle | Merge Mined on VTC Vertcoin - No Premine - Scrypt-N on: May 07, 2014, 02:30:00 AM
Yo dawg, I heard you like mining cryptocurrencies.



Mining Monocle while mining Parallax while mining Vertcoin.  Cheesy

Haha, I am doing the same! ^_^ Just started it an hour ago and haven't got anything yet with 1.5 MH/s

don't have time to set my own -_-
1152  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] MON | Monocle | Merge Mined on VTC Vertcoin - No Premine - Scrypt-N on: May 07, 2014, 02:21:20 AM
Work has started on adding Parallax Cheesy

If you can get PLX to work simultaneously with VTC and MON in true triple-merged fashion, you'll be the most popular pool on the internet.

+23

+1
1153  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: VertPay doing a Vertcoin based IPO on: May 05, 2014, 05:54:57 PM
Got more faith in vert than in a noname claiming a revolutionary coin.
1154  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: TaxCoin (TXC) | PoS | IPO | Revolutionary | FIRST 50 POSTS gets 3K TXC each on: May 05, 2014, 08:38:29 AM
i have to post more  Undecided
1155  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] SpartanCoin - Cryptocoin for the competitive world. on: April 15, 2014, 10:43:24 PM
vote: 17383 to 17388
1156  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: CryptoRush......whats going on? on: April 15, 2014, 10:28:44 PM
From my laptop i get a 404 but on my cellphone i get a message explaining that they moved to new servers since the last attack was made by someone knowing really well the exchange. it looks like they are trying to rebuilt the site and start with something mostly new.
1157  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why does Vircurex trading prices more than any other excgange ? on: March 25, 2014, 03:37:37 AM
back up and you can withdraw, all the prices are back to normal
1158  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Anyone having a problem with Vircurex? on: March 24, 2014, 07:37:24 PM
you can withdraw all the coins except: BTC,LTC,TRC and FTC. You're good with doge.
1159  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why does Vircurex trading prices more than any other excgange ? on: March 24, 2014, 06:04:58 PM
Poloniex got hacked a months ago and decided to do what vircurex is doing. I don't know why it would be dying, right now panic it has created they must have made some coins from the trading fees. If the trading continue like that they'll have covered their loss in no time.
1160  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] SpartanCoin - Cryptocoin for the competitive world. on: March 21, 2014, 08:55:39 PM
GENERATE A NEW COIN ADDRESS IN YOUR WALLET IT FIXES THE ISSUE!!!!


nope still the same problem
Pages: « 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 [58] 59 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!