Avoid posting wall of text or atleast the nested quotes because people won't be interested in reading all the quoted posts and to be honest its too hard to understand. Just now entered in this thread and trying to understand your issues with FJ.

You made bets but this was cancelled due to the bugs identified by the FJ but still your initial money wasn't retured?

---

Seems FJ said their final discussion here so you better continue to post on your thread which is on scam accusation section and stop posting about them on multiple boards.

Dang, you almost had it right FortuneJack!

Except noooooooo, I did NOT perform my cashout after 1 hour of opening the market  at "10:37:23" - if I understand your timezone correctly.

I performed my partial cashout right around that 8:18 to 9ish timeframe, about 6-7 hours after the lines first went live (at ~3.0 odds) and about 1-2 hours after I initially placed my bet. I don't know what timezone you're using, but for me I can only speak in EST.

Odds went live around 6:30pm EST and he was posted around 3.0 odds universally across all betting sites.

1 hour later around 7:30pm EST he was around 2.8 odds on FJ.

30 mins after that around 8:00pm EST he was at 2.6 odds on FJ, and that's when I placed my 0.14 BTC bet exactly around 7:58pm EST on De Jong to win.

Then about 1 hour later after 8:45pm EST, the line became frozen for at least 30 mins.

Afterward, around 9:20pm EST De Jong for some reason dropped from 2.6 to 1.2-1.3. Why did this happen I have no idea and once again it is not up to me to decide.

Then 3-4 hours later, between 12-1am (right before I was about to go to sleep) - I noticed that you voluntarily gave me an option to cash out either in full for 0.268 BTC or partially for whatever % I wanted while keeping the remaining amount open at 2.6 odds much like my original bet. So because I was given this option by you, and to minimize my risk, I decided to only cash out ~50% of my bet. But I did not expect this to happen at all and I was willing to go to sleep knowing I took a 100% risk of potentially losing this bet without getting anything back if my player loses, and I was willing to accept this risk even if odds didn't change and you did not offer my the cashout option.

Then the match started around 10am EST on the 24th, which is 9-10 hours after I performed my 50% partial cashout.

Then at 8:08am EST you sent me a bet cancelation email, which was sent 12 hours after I initially placed my bet, and ~7-8 hours after I performed my initial cashout. And only 2 hours before the match was about to start.

So if you KNEW for a fact that this was a glitch or error in the system, then why did you wait 7-12 hours before canceling my bet instead of doing it right away, as well as NOT giving me the option to do a full/partial cashout?

This is no different than when a user makes a bet on a certain player to win a match at say 2.5 odds. And then 2 hours later that player goes from 2.5 to 5.0, and now you're in a crappy dilemma. Had you waited an extra 2 hours, you would have gotten him at better odds. OR you simply changed your mind and decided it wasn't worth it anymore and wanted to cancel this bet. Or maybe you made a complete accident and put in the wrong amount.

Well, guess what? In this case, depending on the bookie, some may not allow you to cash out this bet at all and you would be forced to watch it play out without being to cash anything out.

And then there those who would allow you to cash something out, will allow you to do it at a 30-50% instant loss. So most of the time, it wouldn't make sense to do it as the bettor cuz you'd be losing a lot of money right away because either the odds changed or you simply made a "mistake" and changed your mind. But regardless of the reason you want to cancel after placing the bet, you will not be able to cash out your full amount without losing a large portion of it.

So much like I as a user may still be able to cash out but suffer a huge loss, similarly FJ wanted to "cash out" to avoid this bet being played out in full because they feared they were going to los the bet since the odds drastically changed. So they gave me the option to cash out whatever % I wanted at a guaranteed loss, that loss would still be much lower than if had I not cashed out anything at all.

So in simple terms:

I placed a 0.14 BTC bet at 2.6 odds = 0.364 BTC if I win
Then if I wanted to cash out in full after the odds changed it would have been = 0.268 BTC.

This means that if I had cashed out in full, FortuneJack would have cut their losses & saved ~0.1 BTC assuming the player I bet on would have won, which he did.

Therefore, it makes perfect sense why they would give me this option, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It benefits them just as much as it benefits me if I take them up on it, making it a win-win situation. I lose out on winning an extra 0.1 BTC, and they save+cut their losses by 0.1 BTC.

It's also very similar to a case where you bet on an underdog player to win at 3.0, and then during the live match he was playing amazing and won the first set and is now up a break in the 2nd, in a very strong winning position. At this point, his odds of winning are no longer 3.0 but rather 1.3, and your 1k bet would turn into 3k total if he ends up winning the match. But at this time the bookie gives you the option to cash out in full for 2.2-2.4k (or less if you cash out partially), knowing that they are likely to lose this bet, so at least they want to cut their losses by $600-800.

At this point, you are guaranteed to win something if you choose to cash out in full or partially if that is an option; OR if you really believe that the player you bet on will close it out and win the match then you can wait an extra 30mins and by then it "should" be over. But in that case you run the risk of the favorite player making a comeback as it happens quite a lot.

So those who don't want to take too much risk will be happy to cash out in full for 2-2.5x their initial bet instead of potentially the full 3k, and are completely ok about missing out on a 3.0 win if they can be guaranteed a nice win at lower odds when given the chance at a 2-2.5x return.

THIS IS THE EXACT SAME IDEA!

You probably realized that it was likely that you were going to lose this bet after odds changed, and offered me the option to cash out whatever % I wanted to minimize your losses (as if you were about to lose a live match as I explained above); and I was happy to partially cash out and keep everything else in play which was still very risky because it was a pretty even match and anything could have happened on that day. This way, instead of you potentially losing 0.364 BTC, you would only end up losing ~0.314 BTC if my player wins - saving yourself a 0.05 BTC loss. This is completely fair and a win-win situation for both of us.

And no, I did not know or think the odds were wrong. How am I supposed to know this? For me, it was a fairly even match and there were no clear favorites. And even if I did think De Jong was the favorite - my opinion doesn't & shouldn't matter. The only opinion that matters is that of bookies who post the odds on their site and make them official.

You can post a match where 1 player was given 5.0 odds of winning thinking "yeah they're probably not gonna win", and I could be thinking the exact opposite & believing they have a good chance of winning + placing the bet. And then what do you know? If my player ends up winning then I was right while 90% of people thought otherwise. So once again, what I think doesn't matter and is why bets are made to see who's right & who's wrong.

In this case, I just happened to get in at good odds that made sense to me at the time, and I was fortunate that the player I bet on ended up winning the match. But the 2nd set was very competitive and his opponent could have also won it just as much, and if they played a 3rd set it could have gone either way, which proves there was no clear favorite in this match.

Also, here you wrote that he dropped to 1.16 - but in the email you sent me you wrote that you decided to cancel the bet because he dropped from 2.6 to 1.7. So why are you now mixing things up and changing the numbers?

I don't know where you got 1.16 from because even I didn't see him being given such low odds at the time. Also, 1.7 instead of 1.16 makes a lot more sense to me as well because the match was very even and I believe there was no clear favorite here.

So please explain to me & everyone here where or how did you get 1.7 from? And please stick to only this number because that was your only reasoning for canceling my bet according to your email.

Aside from that, I hope everything else I wrote earlier makes sense to you & shows why I believe I deserve to win my remaining amount in full.

So are you saying that you agree with FortuneJack and think that what they did is right or fair? To cancel my bet for no valid reason (because of a change of odds from 2.6 to 1.7) and then keep the entire stake to themselves too without returning it back to me?

Have you EVER had a situation before where your bet was canceled for whatever reason, and that amount was not returned to you?

I can also technically take this to court and easily win this case if I wanted to, as has been proven several times here already for exactly the same situation against other bookies, but for much more extreme cases or "accidental" mistakes where bettors deliberatly took advantage of unbelievable odds or error in odds from bookies (whereas in my case, that's far from the truth).

But I would much rather solve this in a more civilized & professional way and explain to everyone here why what they did is wrong and why I deserve to win my bet in full. So of course I backed it up with a lot of information and reasons to prove my case.

What else do you want me to do?

And how would YOU feel if you placed a bet in the thousands that a bookie canceled for no valid reason, denied your big win, and then refused to return to you your large stake?

Easy to not give a crap about others, but when it happens to you it's a completely different story.

I did not think of this as even a remote possibility until FJ confirmed it themselves. That actually means they made 2 consecutive technical mistakes. First one was to accept the bet with wrong odds, the next one was to offer the customer options that were not options after all (we still do not have a screenshot that confirms it though).
In that case it's not simply a math problem/issue anymore (which I assumed it was) and we enter the domain of the TOC. I kinda feel that FJ has it covered there.


As a customer, I'd be pissed at how you handled this if it happened to me (not you personally but FJ in general). I agree with EpicChamp that even if the provider was responsible for the wrong odds, you as a site should take responsibility as well. But I won't dwell on that, that's covered in TOC and I'm sure you are free to cancel bets in the way that you did.

I think all of this would not be as much of a problem if you just cancelled the bet instead of offering these 3 options in the first place. He'd probably accept it and move on because it's not the first time it happened. But we're talking about a decent amount of money, and in this case FJ really did a rollercoaster ride on the guy's emotions.
First he thought he made a good bet. Then it was voided partially and he thought OK, I already have some money because I withdrew my deposit and have some extra on the bet. Then the bet was cancelled although he picked the right outcome. Then he thought well, at least I still get my stake back. Ultimately, after all your technical difficulties and bad communication, the player was left with only his initial deposit.

I understand you are a big business that has a million users and tens of millions of bets. But when something like this happens, when you make continuous mistakes at the expense of the same user, even if you are right according to the TOC and even if it was all just a mistake, maybe some option can be found because like this it really leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Imagine the guy's feelings after losing bit by bit by bit of his winnings, even if they weren't actually winnings according to the TOC. He thought they were and that's important as well.

He was determined to play on that guy, if you voided it earlier he'd probably bet on it elsewhere. He did think he has a bet on FJ, therefore he did not bet somewhere else, therefore he lost even more money because of your miscommunication.

_______________________________________________________________

Since this no longer becomes the discussion about stealing of funds and turns into 'what can we do as a bookie/what is the right thing to do', I'm withdrawing from the discussion because I already said my moral standpoint on situations like these in general. Since I'm sure you can wrap this all and say it's an error, I'm not sure what other options the player has other than possibly seeking justice in court. That would be really difficult though so I'd advise him not to - he'll probably just be wasting time and energy.

Since you asked for community's feedback - I'd rather see that FJ takes a part of the blame for this. It really is your fault, all of it, even if you can justify it with TOC it doesn't make it right. That's something that only you can decide though but I hope to see a fairer outcome than simply saying 'no harm done, let's move on'. Maybe try to make some kind of a deal with the player, so he actually gets something in return for this emotional whirlwind.

My 2 cents anyway, cheers to everybody.

HA! This proves my point!

So you decide to cancel this bet only for me and not to him because I had different odds? And you think this is ok or allowed to do?

Do you realize how many times odds change before a match or game is about to start, and different people can have completely different odds going in? And in these situations bets are never canceled for ANYONE?

For example, let's take a Djokovic vs Zverev match. Djokovic is first posted at 1.4 to win and Zverev is 2.6. Then 2 hours later Djokovic drops to 1.25 and Zverev goes up to 3.4. And few hours later Djokovic drops to 1.15 and Zverev goes up to 5.0.

Do you think it's fair for those people who bet on Zverev initially at 2.6, when now there are people who got him at 5.0 a few hours later? No, it may not be fair - but as a bookie, you're not going to cancel this bet for them or anyone because of that (or vice versa for those who bet on Djokovic at different times).

The SAME thing applies to my situation.

My point is odds always change and everyone gets in different odds, but you cannot just cancel the bet for 1 person with X odds and NOT cancel it for another person with Y odds. Only if there is an actual problem with the match itself or someone gets injured and it's not played out in full.

And while this betrader company may have given you the wrong odds initially, it was you who kept slowly dropping these odds by 0.2 units every 30 minutes in the first 2-3 hours when this line went up. This proves that this was not a "technical" error or an "accident" like you claim that it was - it was 100% intentional.

Hey there, thanks for taking an interest.
I don't really want to be the devil's advocate just yet, EpicChamp still needs to provide some proof for what he's saying.
Since you're not actually opposing it however, I will start from the position that the following is true:


Can you confirm or deny that?

If that is true however, FJ offered him to cash out. If he cashed out in full, you would let him withdraw it all, agreed? Because that is what you offered him.
He did not cash out all, but a portion - which was also offered from your side - if what he's saying is true. At that point, what he already withdrew becomes irrelevant because he used your offer to cover his investment. He withdrew the deposited amount and kept the rest on your site, using it as 'another' bet, although still a part of the same one, only in a lower percentage.
Let's ignore the fact that you cancelled the bet, which I'm sure you can according to TOC, but the fact is that the bet he made with the remainder of his initial bet is his money - not FJ's.

Actual cost of the bet was returned to him only because he chose it when he chose the % of the bet he wanted to cash out earlier. He could have chosen 20% or 80% as well - then these numbers would not match.
It is normal that it looks as a cost from your side in your system because his winnings are bigger than his initial deposit - because you allowed him cashout of a part of his bet for profit.

I'll use placeholder values here:

Player invests 10 mbtc on odds 2.50, his potential winnings are 25 mbtc. The bookie realizes they made a mistake with the odds and offer the package that EpicChamp says he received, with instant casout of 20mbtc as a possibility.
Player still has 10mbtc value. He can choose to have 10 while keeping the bet open. If he chooses that, in this case when the bet was cancelled later, he would get his initial stake of 10mbtc back.
Player can also choose to instantly take the offer of cashout and take 20 mbtc. Then, you'd have cost in your system as well - because he withdrew more than he deposited - because he fairly cashed out and won the ticket with lower odds.
Player chose option 3 however, and used 5mbtc of his money to receive 10mbtc from FJ. He withdrew that. 5 remaining mbtc were kept as a bet, that part of his initial 10mbtc is still his stake and when the bet was voided, his stake should be returned.
In this case player actually has 15 mbtc on a 10 mbtc deposit, because the difference of 5 mbtc comes from partially cashing out before the bet was voided altogether.

For all this to mean anything though, he has to prove receiving the offer mentioned a few times already.

Oh really, is that so Tornlike? The remaining stake wasn't kept on your side?

Then where exactly did it go, just magically disappeared out of thin air after you randomly canceled my bet for no apparent reason?

Let me remind you again that you voluntarily gave me the option to either cash out in full the day before for 0.2687 BTC or do a partial cashout for any amount or % I wanted. And I decided to cash out for 50% and keep the other 50% open. This is all in accordance to your own rules and is 100% fair.

This was your decision to allow me to do this, I did not cheat your system or hack your site/this bet in any way to do my 50% partial cashout, and in the end I had 0.0672 BTC left at 2.6 odds to win 0.1747 BTC. Then right before the match was about to start - you decided to bend the rules in your favor, cancel my bet super late for no valid reason, and then had the audacity to also keep my remaining stake to yourself as well.

Do you really think this is fair or ethical in any way?

I mean why did you offer me this option in the first place then? What was the point of giving me the choice of doing a partial cashout if I was going to lose my full remaining stake whether my player wins, loses OR the bet gets canceled for whatever reason?

In order words, no matter what would end up happening afterward (in this match or bet), I would end up losing my entire stake of 0.0672 BTC with you keeping it all to yourself - why is that? Do you really think this is right to do or makes any sense?

Because in that case, I would have simply cashed out everything in full for 0.2687 BTC and been done with it; and avoided any risk of losing my BTC from not only a scenario of my player losing, but also in the case of you canceling this bet.

What FJ should not be able to do in any case whatsoever is to keep his stake for themselves. That is a criminal act for sure and it can be branded as theft, pure and simple. If there is a section in FJ's TOC that states that they can keep the stake for themselves, I'd like to see it in writing and I'm asking them to provide it.

Haha I see you also got jokes now is that right?

Why don't you explain to him the full story of what ACTUALLY happened instead of trying to crack jokes around like an innocent fool?

Oh wait, no need - I already did the heavy lifting for you.

I love how you just ignore all my messages that prove how you're clearly in the wrong, but look for any opportunity to pretend like you're such an innocent angel trying to do the right thing!

And what do you know? You can reply right away too? Wow, what a surprise!

What do you mean when you say that your stake was not returned in full? I'm asking because they said it was and that you already withdrew it.

So, your bet was 10 mBTC, your bet was cancelled and you were given back the 10 mBTC, right? 10 mBTC is just a placeholder, I don't know how big your bet was.

so I've been on this website for just over 3 months now and feel comfortable giving an honest review.
I'm mostly betting on sports but recently also played some slots and got 127 status points currently (Tesla), having placed over 200 sports bets for 1.5 BTC roughly.

Positive:
++++ absolutely BEST odds in the industry on certain markets and sports (NFL/NCAAF/Tennis sides and totals have 1.95 to 1.96 sides)
+++ offer large amounts of alternate spreads and totals in a variety of sports
+++ no withdrawal fees (others charge 0.5 mBTC or more) / fast withdrawals
++ active discord with freebets and challenges
++ very good bonuses and promotions for active players
++ large amount of markets/leagues available
++ No KYC (only phone+email needed)
++ Changing/Swiching out bets in parlays allowed
+ Partial-Cashout possible

Neutral/Negative:
+- reload feature useless for Sports bettors (same goes for first time deposit bonuses, but great for Casino players)
+- no player props, teasers (hope they get added soon)
-- (very annoying one) all sportsbook bets are handled in BTC. so even if you deposit ETH and bet in ETH, the winnings become BTC
- slightly below average odds on NBA, Soccer, MMA (-111 NBA / -115 soccer sides)
- poor cashout rate compared to other sites (93% it looks like right after you place a bet)
- somewhat poor/uninformed live support

Overall I would HIGHLY recommend sports bettors to give fortunejack a chance.
It is in my opinion by far the best crypto sportsbook you can find (took me a while to find this site tbh)

9/10 rating as the negatives are easily trumped by the first 3 positives.

Still a few more weeks to the Fortune JackMate UCL side competition, I'm hoping some of the frontrunners forget about it when it all comes back;) I'll be happy if Barca pushes through to win it in either case!

Will FJ be doing anymore of their CL or EPL sports promos like they did last season? I liked the 2+2 or 4+1 freebet thing, really loved that;)

Their "explanation" doesn't make any sense, and after I responded back to their latest "explanation" addressing all the points they made about their reasoning, they haven't replied back to me since after over a week.

Just read a few posts above to see my response to their explanation to see exactly what I mean.

@FJ how much is that user wagering to earn that huge Cashback, and is he only wagering on dice to get such massive cash backs or is he’s playing on other games too. Lastly is it possible for you to share some more statistics about his bets, as all could learn a trick or two from his bets.