Bitcoin Forum
May 11, 2024, 10:01:05 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 [25] 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 »
481  Economy / Speculation / Re: Ryans log on: July 09, 2014, 06:20:54 AM
You can also r-click and view image in full size/resolution. I forget again how to set the image size in my post

That would appear to be a feature of the browser you use.  There is no "view image" when right-clicking the image in Internet Explorer.

482  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 09, 2014, 04:51:27 AM
And now that the selling has subsided... and we hear nothing but crickets... those wishing to accumulate begin to realize the only way to do so is to move the market up.  He who buys first, buys best.
483  Economy / Speculation / Re: Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF effect in price on: July 09, 2014, 04:23:43 AM
I take bearish positions all the time.   The only hard part is the timing.

LOL.  And the only hard part about winning the lottery is picking the right numbers!
484  Economy / Speculation / Re: Ryans log on: July 09, 2014, 04:20:43 AM
It's very difficult to read the numbers on these charts.
485  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 08, 2014, 06:51:57 AM
$So what compelling information-developments are happening in BTC to make the $ price increase?  You tell me.  An ETF?  Give me a break.... There's nothing new going on is there?

Check the fundamental analysis thread.  The average rate of adoption continues to increase at a steady rate.
486  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 08, 2014, 05:54:00 AM
No.  That's crony capitalism.  Laissez-faire economists oppose crony capitalism.  Please educate yourself here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism
Thank you, but I lived in the US 13 years starting with Reagan's election.  I have seen it happen in real time. And I have seen that here in Brazil too, before and after that. It was deregulation, not government intervention, that created the monster banks and all economic crises since then. 

[...] When the house of cards finally collapsed, they already had enough power over the government to force it bail them out with taxpayers money.  That is where laissez-faire capitalism inevitably leads to.

No.  That is where crony capitalism inevitably leads.  Nobody here is arguing for crony capitalism.
487  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 08, 2014, 05:27:54 AM
I predict we will never see sub-$600 again.


Never ... hmmmmm thats a very long time Wink

Yes, very.


Ok, I'm calling bottom yesterday (7-6-2014) at 612.90.  I don't think we're going to spend much time below 620 from this point on, and never below 612 again.  Current price is 622.61.
488  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 08, 2014, 05:11:49 AM
In a truly free laissez faire system nothing is "too big to fail." Tax exemptions come from governments, what market ever gave anyone a tax exemption for anything? Let alone a laissez faire market. Don't sacrifice intellectual integrity to prop up a political agenda.
Laissez Faire capitalism, which in the US was brought in by back starting with Reagan, first allowed banks and corporations to grow and merge without limits.  (Once upon a time, there was a US government that ordered the breakup of AT&T because it was too big.  Would you believe that?)   Huge companies meant cartels which meant fat profits which meant fat bribes and campaign contributions which meant laws favoring the richest, such as the end of the progressive income tax and all sorts of tax breaks, loopholes and tax heavens.  Laissez-faire capitalism (or extreme deregulation) then allowed banks and financial corporations to invent all sorts of virtual assets built on top of each other, take risks that were once unthinkable, engage in undetected massive fraud, cede control to foreign corporations, etc..  When the house of cards finally collapsed, they already had enough power over the government to force it bail them out with taxpayers money.  That is where laissez-faire capitalism inevitably leads to.



No.  That's crony capitalism.  Laissez-faire economists oppose crony capitalism.  Please educate yourself here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism
489  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 07, 2014, 11:17:53 PM
The distinction between anonymous and pseudonymous, for this purpose, escapes me.  Either way, one goal of the technology was to allow a secure payment without the parties having to reveal their identities to anyone, not even to each other, at any time.

That goal implies that governments will not being able to "see" the payments.  Sure, they can tell that someone paid 23.12 BTC to someone else, perhaps to him/herself; but that information is useless if they cannot tell who the parites are -- not even their nationalities or locations.

You confuse powers of a government with powers of random individuals.  Large governments have the power to snoop at the exchange level, identify the purchaser of Bitcoins, and then follow the blockchain to see where those funds are actually used.  Individuals don't usually have the power to snoop on exchanges.

 
If the government and everybody else can see exactly how much XFC you earn and where you spend it -- what would be the advantage of using FunnyCoin, instead of banks?

One main advantage is inability to forever print more currency.  Monetization of debt is one way governments choose to pay for their onerous social programs.  With this change, governments will be forced to make their taxes completely visible rather than monetize it and collect through inflation.

490  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 07, 2014, 11:11:39 PM
Regarding your other point; that BTC would still serve as a store of value, you're assuming the exchange of BTC to USD is the only thing that would be made illegal. That is naive. "Holding" BTC could be made illegal just as easily.

1) The blockchain is made of transactions.  There are no actual accounts holding anything.  Addresses simply have the power to spend outputs from prior transactions in the blockchain, or they do not.

2) Anyone can make a transaction with any address as an output.  This would be the equivalent of US bank accounts accepting deposits from any third party.  To make holding a balance illegal when funds can be deposited by any third party is not feasible.

3) All this would do is transfer control of most Bitcoins from law-abiding US citizens to others.  It wouldn't reduce the number of Bitcoins in circulation.

4) Even when it was made illegal for US citizens to hold gold, gold itself held onto its value.  Most citizens transferred their gold out of the country rather than comply with that unconstitutional law.  If this happened to Bitcoin, you could just transfer all your Bitcoins to an offline wallet.  There'd be no way to prove you still owned any of it.  You could then use it to buy gold outside the country.
491  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 07, 2014, 08:56:55 PM
The reality is the US Government already knows what I've stated to be the truth.  They will not attempt to ban exchange between USD and BTC.  They will instead attempt to control it, regulate it, and tax it.  They will insert themselves into key points of infrastructure to gather intelligence.  As mining hardware is expensive, they will not attempt to destroy Bitcoin through a proof of work attack (51%).  That would only result in movement to another proof of work algorithm, making their hardware investment worthless.  Instead, they will focus on gathering intelligence.  The blockchain was/is the first step.  Data collection at exchanges is the next.  It's actually much easier to trace the flow of Bitcoin than the flow of cash.  So I would expect the US Government to happily support Bitcoin as it provides superior data on their enemies.

492  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 07, 2014, 08:42:55 PM
The point is that governments will stamp out crypto, like they got rid of BSCs, if they perceive that crypto is actually going to do what it was intended to do. 

Government can never completely eliminate currencies based on decentralized consensus blockchains.  They can only make it more difficult to trade this currency for their own currency, and vice versa.  If government pushes Bitcoin into a black market currency, it will still exist.  In fact, if the war on drugs is anything to judge by, a war on Bitcoin will only make it worth more.


No. It makes me cringe every time someone says this.

It's the truth.  Please read here: http://economics.about.com/od/demand/ss/black_market.htm


The supply of bitcoins are not reduced if they are made illegal. There will still be 21 million of them.

No.  The supply of Bitcoins being sold for USD will be greatly reduced.  That would be the effect of any legislation criminalizing Bitcoin in the United States.  Converting Bitcoin into USD will suddenly make that seller a criminal.  This will make it much more difficult to buy Bitcoin, thus resulting in an increased BTC/USD price.  Most exchanges for BTC/USD will be shut down.


Mining would become easier.

You're missing the main point anyway - the utility of illegal drugs are not affected by their legal status. The utility of BTC is greatly reduced if it is made illegal. And what's the "intrinsic" value of BTC in the first place? Its utility.

No.  Bitcoin's utility as a store of value would not be affected.  Only its use as a currency would be affected.  The use as a store of value is what most directly translates into its exchange price today.


What are you going to do with your now illegal BTC?

Again, BTC wouldn't be illegal.  Converting to USD would be illegal.  You could sell for other currencies in countries not hostile to Bitcoin.  If somehow all the countries of the world were to criminalize exchanges between Bitcoin and their currencies (very big stretch here), there would always be a market between Bitcoin and Gold, or anything else with actual value.


The truth is if the US decides to be hostile towards BTC, most other countries would follow for fear of economic sanctions etc. This may not be true in the future, but it is the reality today.

Now say you want to purchase a car, a house etc with your wealth stored in BTC. What incentive does the merchant have to accept your illegal BTC instead of legal USD? Maybe you can persuade him by paying more... What benefit does BTC offer him over USD for him to risk confiscation, prison etc?

You're speaking again in terms of using Bitcoin as a currency.  Obviously that would be handicapped with criminalization of exchange between BTC and USD.  We've already covered that.  Bitcoin would still function as a store of value, however.  It could still be used to transfer value between people nearly instantly, and could still be exchanged for Gold, Silver, and anything else of value outside the jurisdiction of hostile governments.  Bitcoin would likely become a proxy for Gold, as it's much easier to safely move.  Imagine half the market cap of Gold moved into Bitcoin.

493  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 07, 2014, 08:28:11 PM
The point is that governments will stamp out crypto, like they got rid of BSCs, if they perceive that crypto is actually going to do what it was intended to do. 

Government can never completely eliminate currencies based on decentralized consensus blockchains.  They can only make it more difficult to trade this currency for their own currency, and vice versa.  If government pushes Bitcoin into a black market currency, it will still exist.  In fact, if the war on drugs is anything to judge by, a war on Bitcoin will only make it worth more.


No. It makes me cringe every time someone says this.

It's the truth.  Please read here: http://economics.about.com/od/demand/ss/black_market.htm


The supply of bitcoins are not reduced if they are made illegal. There will still be 21 million of them.

No.  The supply of Bitcoins being sold for USD will be greatly reduced.  That would be the effect of any legislation criminalizing Bitcoin in the United States.  Converting Bitcoin into USD will suddenly make that seller a criminal.  This will make it much more difficult to buy Bitcoin, thus resulting in an increased BTC/USD price.  Most exchanges for BTC/USD will be shut down.


Mining would become easier.

You're missing the main point anyway - the utility of illegal drugs are not affected by their legal status. The utility of BTC is greatly reduced if it is made illegal. And what's the "intrinsic" value of BTC in the first place? Its utility.

No.  Bitcoin's utility as a store of value would not be affected.  Only its use as a currency would be affected.  The use as a store of value is what most directly translates into its exchange price today.


What are you going to do with your now illegal BTC?

Again, BTC wouldn't be illegal.  Converting to USD would be illegal.  You could sell for other currencies in countries not hostile to Bitcoin.  If somehow all the countries of the world were to criminalize exchanges between Bitcoin and their currencies (very big stretch here), there would always be a market between Bitcoin and Gold, or anything else with actual value.
494  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 07, 2014, 08:14:13 PM
The point is that governments will stamp out crypto, like they got rid of BSCs, if they perceive that crypto is actually going to do what it was intended to do. 

Government can never completely eliminate currencies based on decentralized consensus blockchains.  They can only make it more difficult to trade this currency for their own currency, and vice versa.  If government pushes Bitcoin into a black market currency, it will still exist.  In fact, if the war on drugs is anything to judge by, a war on Bitcoin will only make it worth more.


No. It makes me cringe every time someone says this.

It's the truth.  Please read here: http://economics.about.com/od/demand/ss/black_market.htm


The supply of bitcoins are not reduced if they are made illegal. There will still be 21 million of them.

No.  The supply of Bitcoins being sold for USD will be greatly reduced.  That would be the effect of any legislation criminalizing Bitcoin in the United States.  Converting Bitcoin into USD will suddenly make that seller a criminal.  This will make it much more difficult to buy Bitcoin, thus resulting in an increased BTC/USD price.  Most exchanges for BTC/USD will be shut down.


Mining would become easier.

You're missing the main point anyway - the utility of illegal drugs are not affected by their legal status. The utility of BTC is greatly reduced if it is made illegal. And what's the "intrinsic" value of BTC in the first place? Its utility.

No.  Bitcoin's utility as a store of value would not be affected.  Only its use as a currency would be affected.  The use as a store of value is what most directly translates into its exchange price today.
495  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 07, 2014, 08:03:54 PM
The point is that governments will stamp out crypto, like they got rid of BSCs, if they perceive that crypto is actually going to do what it was intended to do.  

Government can never completely eliminate currencies based on decentralized consensus blockchains.  They can only make it more difficult to trade this currency for their own currency, and vice versa.  If government pushes Bitcoin into a black market currency, it will still exist.  In fact, if the war on drugs is anything to judge by, a war on Bitcoin will only make it worth more.


No. It makes me cringe every time someone says this.

It's the truth.  Please read here: http://economics.about.com/od/demand/ss/black_market.htm


The supply of bitcoins are not reduced if they are made illegal. There will still be 21 million of them.

No.  The supply of Bitcoins being sold for USD would be greatly reduced.  That would be the effect of any legislation criminalizing Bitcoin in the United States.  Converting Bitcoin into USD would suddenly make that seller a criminal.  This would make it much more difficult to buy Bitcoin, thus resulting in an increased BTC/USD price.  Most centralized exchanges for BTC/USD would be shut down.
496  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 07, 2014, 07:47:51 PM
The point is that governments will stamp out crypto, like they got rid of BSCs, if they perceive that crypto is actually going to do what it was intended to do. 

Government can never completely eliminate currencies based on decentralized consensus blockchains.  They can only make it more difficult to trade this currency for their own currency, and vice versa.  If government pushes Bitcoin into a black market currency, it will still exist.  In fact, if the war on drugs is anything to judge by, a war on Bitcoin will only make it worth more.


No. It makes me cringe every time someone says this.

It's the truth.  Please read here: http://economics.about.com/od/demand/ss/black_market.htm
497  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 07, 2014, 07:41:57 PM
The point is that governments will stamp out crypto, like they got rid of BSCs, if they perceive that crypto is actually going to do what it was intended to do. 

Government can never completely eliminate currencies based on decentralized consensus blockchains.  They can only make it more difficult to trade this currency for their own currency, and vice versa.  If government pushes Bitcoin into a black market currency, it will still exist.  In fact, if the war on drugs is anything to judge by, a war on Bitcoin will only make it worth more.
498  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 07, 2014, 07:01:02 PM
For one thing, if one day it may look like like they may succeed in their goal -- bypassing government controls on money flow and supply --, then governments will surely ban them. 
Governments do not have control of money flow and supply.  Banks do.
Whatever, it does not change the problem.

The controls I am referring to include their fight against money laundering, illegal commerce, bribery, embezzlement, tax evasion, blackmail, financing terrorism, sabotage and assasinations on their soil,  ...  If governments get to see cryptocurrencies as a significant obstacle to their efforts against those things,  they will clamp down on them -- make crypto commerce illegal, raid servers, co-opt or infitrate crypto outfits, etc.  With full support from the banks, of course.

Bearer stock certificates (BSCs) were numbered but anonymous pieces of fancy paper that certified the bearer as owner of so-many shares of some company.  BSCs of major companies were fungible and untraceable, like dollar bills; but one certificate could be worth thousands of dollars, so they were much more convenient than cash or gold for large payments that had to be hidden from the government, and to take money across borders.  Moreover, their value would grow over time, so they could be used to safely store wealth for decades, out of the reach of government.  BSCs of course were favorites of criminals and tax evaders.  Surprise, companies no longer issue BSCs, and they have been outlawed in many places (~20 years ago in Brazil, IIRC). 



Apples and oranges.  Would you really want to carry around a piece of paper worth millions of dollars?  You'd need an armored vehicle.  It's not efficient, nor safe.

Bitcoin is not anonymous, and can be transmitted without an armored vehicle.  The NSA's job going forward will be to identify addresses owned by terrorists.  The blockchain can be mined in a 6 degrees fashion to find the circles of terrorists.  The points where the NSA will insert themselves will be at vendors and exchanges that take the currency and give something else of value.  That will always be a point where identification can be made of individuals and businesses facilitating purchasing for terrorist networks.
499  Economy / Speculation / Re: /french_police_smash_illegal_bitcoin_ring/ on: July 07, 2014, 06:01:52 PM
It looks like the French socialists feel threatened by Bitcoin.  They shut down a homegrown Bitcoin exchange.  Per the reporting, it was nothing more than a Bitcoin exchange.  Looks like Bitcoin is starting to do its job.
500  Economy / Speculation / Re: Address 1AcAj9 that found couple of blocks in few hours, WTF ??? on: July 07, 2014, 08:20:15 AM
[...] you should trust me [...]

You have a very poor trust rating here.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=314889

Quote
Trust: -4: -1 / +0(0)
Warning: Trade with extreme caution!
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 [25] 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!