https://www.theonion.com/u-s-blowjobless-rate-at-all-time-high-1819567963

Proof:

Fine, how about the best middle ground reasonable compromise that I can think of because we really aren't going to change each others minds and we're just going to frustrate each other. Don't listen to me or any official reports or media be it what I'd consider credible media or what you consider credible media. Talk to someone directly involved in this that you 100% absolutely trust, be it your personal doctor/nurse that I hope you've built up a long relationship with, or a trusted family friend/neighbor that happens to be a first responder, just someone from an involved field.

No egghead statisticians, TV producers, incomprehensible evil scientists or government lackeys, just someone you personally know with firsthand experience. If they tell you its all a bunch of nonsense then go with it.

As to the self declared superiority claim, I'm claiming that the thousands of people who's job it is to do the analysis are superior to both of us at the task of advising on what our best course of action is. I'm just curious how many millions of hours you've spent sifting through the raw data, talking to individual business owners to see what losses they're experiencing, and where you've gathered your data that you're drawing all of your conclusions from? Unfortunately, I don't have the resources, ability, or personnel to do that personally, so I rely on others to do that for me, and hope that discrepancies found between Team USA and Team Canada for example would help to clear up any errors along the way.  

I apologize for the ad hominem comments, stupid people don't frustrate me, smart people that act stupid do. I feel it absolutely unnecessary to explain why your claims about probable corona virus deaths and reporting is an outright lie because again, I don't believe that you believe what you are saying. You know as well as I do how pathologists do post mortem reports, they don't spin the wheel to decide what to write down as a cause of death. If you come into a hospital with a stab wound, cancer, seasonal allergies, and a cavity and you bleed out from your stab wound, your cause of death is not listed as seasonal allergies. Please look again at what your own CDC link says about the separation between probable and confirmed corona virus cases, as well as the part about data lagging up to a week and being constantly amended. If you die of pneumonia from the flu and it gets listed as probable corona virus death, what happens next week when you test negative? Ah, the number gets amended, fantastic.

That is absolutely reasonable, if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, and you call it a duck only later to find out it was a quacking waddling chicken, the record gets changed when you find out its a chicken. Hospitals have oversight committees, its a group of jackasses that represent the hospital and watch for lawsuit risks. If Coroner A is doing something that could get them sued, they cut that out.

 

This is literally a job people do every single day when they make forecasts on the economy. Calculus and computers make magic! My only point that I've now brought up literally four times now in this thread, is that while it might be asinine for me to claim that I've done all of these calculations personally, its business as usual for the people who's job it is to map out the correlation between how often people change their underwear and how well the economy is doing. Do you know how much more complicated predicting the weather is than this?

I could not agree with you more. Your right to enjoy a nice bowling game does not outweigh the life of the guy handling the ball after you. Everyone is dealing with this together, grow up, deal with it like an adult and not an angry kid that can't deal with being told what to do. We can all stay home for a month, or half of the population can stay home for a year while the other half disregards the order and takes up precious resources that they don't deserve.

Just keep in mind that if you have a pet dog and you're eating a chocolate bar and refusing to give any to the dog, from the dog's point of view, you're just an asshole who doesn't want to share.

Yes, any opinion you have on someone is an attack. If you disagree or think someone is a moron, its an attack. Keep playing the victim card, its a pretty strong tool to gather sympathy for shallow arguments. The USA is not powerful, its one of the most fragile nations in the world because our citizens outright hate each other. We've got a government thats accountable to no one and makes us look like fools, while starting fires all over the world. Travel outside of your bubble and see how much people despise us, its sort of a bummer having to claim to be Canadian when you travel to Europe at the risk of your safety, or having suppliers in China/India/Pakistan not want to do business with you because they don't like Americans.

You are outright lying about caring about other people and all of your bullshit about covid statistics, no one of sound mind is buying it. You obviously have no idea what medical oversight boards and hospital standards are. Your statements about causes of death are demonstrably false. Again, in case I haven't made it abundantly clear, the economic impact has already been factored in. I doubt you need a simple math lesson, but when opening a business that creates $100k per year in wealth costs the country $280k, that is bad.  Remember the middle school economics example where there is a graph of supply and demand for a CD at different price points, and they find that intersection where demand and price is maximized to create the most profit? The thousands of medical professionals, business leaders, and statisticians all worked together to do one of those fancy graphs on when it makes sense to reopen the government. When the expected cost of reopening becomes lower than the cost of staying closed, and the conditions that we'll need to see for that to be the case. Opening too early causes more homelessness, poverty, and all of that other stuff you are pretending to care about for the sake of your half assed argument. Lets put the flames out with gasoline is not a valid game plan, it sucks that the world is dealing with a global crisis, but its embarrassing that we are the only country with any significant amount of nut jobs protesting while nurses desperately try to keep them alive. If you want to get sick, chances are you'll just be ill for a couple of weeks but be fine. Don't expose others, and don't go to the hospital and take the resources that should be devoted to people who aren't rushing to their own deaths because they can't trust the big bad gubmint. For literally once in our lifetimes, the government plan aligns with our own interest, but we're so used to getting boned by them that we've got to express ourselves against them like some rebellious goth teenager that wants a nose ring. Theres wisdom in questioning and selectively fighting battles. You're just a brat if you're fighting for the sake of fighting.

I'm not saying who gives a shit about the economy, I'm saying we can deal with it in the near future. Its hard to come together and fix a problem if we're at each other's throats because your decisions have negative impacts on society as a whole. Even harder if we aren't alive to fix the problem. Again, if you want to be a realists, we can even toss out the whole emotional aspect of people dying and just talk about the chances you run of racking up a life time of medical debt. This isn't the sniffles, something that holds a significant percent chance of hospitalization is a big deal. How many people will go bankrupt and become homeless because they can't pay their ICU bills? We've actually got those statistics, and they aren't very happy.

Look at you bowing to authority is not an argument, the authority is telling us not to die and we're telling them, you can't tell us what to do! They've got a vested interest in not tanking the economy, in keeping you alive to continue paying your taxes, but nah, lets not listen to them because we are the authority now. Why is no one protesting bridges? Why do you trust engineers that think they are the authority on what can keep a building from falling down or a bridge from collapsing? Do your own electrical work, put out your own house fires, do your own architecture work, and manage the treatment of your own water, otherwise you are a authority bowing stooge the same way I am.  Sadly we don't live long enough lives to become experts on all subjects, so we rely on other people to figure some things out for us. Don't get onto an airplane or into a car until you know for certain they aren't designed to kill us. When the government doesn't have a reason to screw us over, what they have is the resources to gather real data and pay teams of people that can put millions of man hours into solving a problem.

This isn't a safe time to throw your tinfoil hat on and think about all the ways the man is trying to get you. If you want to theorize about the moon landing or 9/11 you aren't actively endangering anyone. Think and do whatever you want as long as you aren't a burden on others. If trusting thousands of professionals that are collaborating with thousands of other professionals in other fields, with the gathered resources of a government entity, and in general collaboration with independent teams of other professionals/business leaders rather than listening to Jim the pissed off tattoo artist makes me a fool, I'm good with being a fool.


*edit*


Just thought I'd add, I'm in Maryland and am incredibly pleased with how the response has been. Governor Hogan is a republican governor in a blue state that has been exceedingly popular because hes willing to put aside infighting to deal with whatever the issue is. He said from the onset that he's got a staff hes confident with and is following the advise of the world's leading medical facilities here in the state. He was treated by Johns Hopkins for cancer so he knows just how incredibly competent they are. Hes put out his road map for opening back up the state which I'm assuming you are approving of since you posted a link about it. I too approve of it because its responsibly crafted and appears to have a good measure of safety and realism factored in. I'm not saying we should keep everything shut down forever, but we should be listening to the teams of competent people we put in charge because they're competent, rather than refusing to follow their orders because we can't comply or we'll be government toadies.

Remember friends, the government says that drinking and driving and smoking cigarettes is bad for you. They also say you should eat fruit and vegetables, and take it easy on the fats and sugars, but if you agree with any of that, you're a government stooge. If you aren't smoking crack and eating slim jims, you're part of the problem.

I don't really care about Trump one way or another so I don't need to attack or defend him, I think the man is a moron personally, but I also respect people's right to vote for a moron if they so choose.

I would say your naivety is cute, but I know you are smarter than some of the others here, and you are deliberately leaving things out to make an argument to what you feel has more importance. My point about every other country in the world was to say that its ridiculous to think that this is an internal political game we're playing when nearly every other country in the world is dealing with the same problem and rallying together to deal with the problem rather than polarizing things even further. Everyone else in the world wants to laugh at our incompetence, but our health effects them as well so the laughing is a bit more stifled than it would be otherwise.

Globalism happens when transportation gets better. Staying as the good ole 1800s America protected by a sea gets tricky when we have airplanes that'll get us to Europe in 6 hours. If the global dictator's plan was to breed a country stupid enough to kill itself in order to stay out of their clutches, they're doing a fantastic job. We're tanking our own economy and killing our own people faster than they possibly could, so congratulations! We don't have time to play around with the spooky possibilities when we have an immediate threat. I actually agree with a lot of your thoughts at least to a degree in a regular situation, but its not the time to figure out what to have for dinner when you're inside of a burning building.

The no one is being forced to come to work thing is an absolute joke, you know just as well as I do the power employers hold over their employees. Look at the meat processing plants where they were told to come in sick otherwise they'd risk losing their jobs. We like to say idealistic things about how everyone has free will and slavery is illegal, but wage/debt slavery is a very real concept thats absolutely cemented as part of human nature. Why did we ever allow ourselves to be serfs, why did we ever allow ourselves to be slaves, I certainly would never have been a slave, yet these things keep repeating. As soon as the government says we're ready to open up, whether thats ill advised or not, every company where the decisionmaking body isn't right on the front line with the minimum wage slaves will be opening up. In states that open too soon, unemployment benefits dry up for those that know that they should not return back to work. Just a reminder, unemployment is something they take out of your paycheck and hold onto, it is your money, its not the government giving you a handout. I'm not sure why you think I'm comfortable, I pretty explicitly said that I was not, and my situation isn't all that great, but it beats being dead! Again, I repeat, going against "the plan" makes things worse. We've all got a shitty situation and we can deal with it, or we can make it worse.

I'm actually pretty glad you brought up risk analysis. In New York right now, Corona virus is on track to kill more people than every single cause of death.
in 2017 155,000 people died in New York of all causes. Old age, heart disease, cancer, etc. https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2017/#mort
in 2016 154,000 people died in New York of all causes. https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2016/table31a.htm
in 2015 154,000 people as well https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2015/table31a.htm

Yeah yeah I know the risk isn't the same for population dense areas versus rural Montana, but you'll see similar results for all of the states that have been hit hard, and again we're just at the beginning of this.

I'm floored by your statement about, staying at home and collecting checks. I'd rather earn 10x more money working and not have to worry about how I'll be able to square the debts I'm incurring now. What I do agree with is simple math and risk analysis, insurance companies have been doing it successfully forever, so I'm fairly confident that the US government has the ability to weigh the risks. Follow me here cameraman, we reopen everything back up, and the statisticians predict that every 1 in X people will end up hospitalized as the result, we estimate how many people it'll spread to from them and their risk of hospitalization, we then figure out how many people total will likely end up hospitalized/dead. Add in the effect of people missing 2-3 weeks of work home sick, etc. We tally up all of the bills versus all of the economic benefit of them going back to work, and if we tally it all up and its negative, they tell us to stay home or we'll make things worse. We've got a baseline of lives lost, short term/long term economic damage. Measures are in place to minimize all of that. Losing a job for 2 months due to a natural disaster sucks, losing it for 40 years because it kills the person working there is worse.

If I was making $10/hr checking tickets at the movie theater, I'd like to say I'd be in a position to weigh the chances of me incurring $140k worth of medical debt versus the value of my paycheck, but a rumbling stomach makes that decision for you sometimes. Or, we can listen to the medical professionals that are collaborating with the government and their statisticians to follow a responsible reopening plan that minimizes economic impact and fatalities. Or we can throw temper tantrums and starve and infect more people than the absolute minimum.

Back to the self centered part, Canada, Italy, Spain, all of these enemy countries are also doing these same measures to prop up the fight in our country correct? It is in Germany's best interest to tank their economy to perpetuate this scam to crater our economy. Whether you are a republican, a democrat, or a lizard person, the effects this is having on the economy is effecting us the same, we're all in this together. Its absolute arrogance to think this is even slightly about the US, its a global problem. I don't think anyone needs to stage some elaborate global coup d'etat  to try to damage the reputation of the man telling us to inject disinfectant, if he gets the vote, he gets the vote. The dependence on the government you speak of is just listening to them saying its not financially worth for us to allow our people to get infected. While it is a crying shame that the meat processing factories that forced their employees to come to work and caused hundreds of millions of dollars of damage were shut down, lucky for us the Cheetos factory is still open after a 1 day shutdown.

The number of people effected by this illness is a tiny fraction of the death and pain that will result from this loss of production capacity so far! We've had 50,000 people die in a month with safety measures in place. Luckily, I know that you aren't a moron and understand how illness is spread, its a lot slower rolling when there are 100 cases versus 1 million cases, so I don't need to press on the point that every bit of data we can scrape together right now is showing the absolute minimum effect we could possibly have from the virus.

Again, as I mentioned all of the things you're talking about have already been weighed in the official government road map. Trying to factor it in twice isn't really helpful, all rocking the boat does at this point is cost us more money and lives from the virus, starvation, supply chain collapse, whatever. I'm not sure what free money you're talking about, but I'm a business owner and this hasn't been all that fantastic. The free money that I'm eternally grateful about that I haven't received and will maybe cover a week's expenses if I'm lucky is certainly worth it. Again, going back to work costs the country more resources than not going to work. Every person that gets sick prolongs this and costs the country more money. I don't really understand how this is a hard concept for people, I absolutely agree that it sucks that there is famine around the world, but disregarding safety increases the food problem, it doesn't decrease it. Most people don't give a shit about lives or the economy, they're just tired of being home. But nah, you're probably right. I've really enjoyed this time off while I wait to see how I'll pay my bills. I just sort of realize it'll be awfully tricky to pay them if I'm dead, so I'll just deal with it a little while longer and not bitch, because plenty of people have it worse than me.

Would you be willing to commit a serious crime and risk 8+ years of your life and $500k plus any potential jail time you'd face so that your employer could earn 1/700th of their daily profit? Again... why would the CDC want to perpetuate the whole corona virus thing. Government does not want you to stop working and giving them a portion of your paycheck. What they really don't want however is to have to pay your medical bill when you can't afford it, and stop receiving your money because you're dead.

Hospitals in the US makes billions of dollars per year. It makes absolute perfect sense to risk billions in steady income for $12k. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and lets say that hospital administration is corrupt and willing to deal with ten thousand fold repercussions, the actual people who's job it is to write 'covid' on their toe tag aren't seeing any of that money. How much of that $12k would you need to pay to someone with an already decent salary to make them risk their job, license, and medical degree? And once again, no one is going to catch wind of that and blow any whistles I'm sure. No chance of getting caught when you're in rural Iowa and ticking off numbers that are scrutinized and analyzed by 50 different agencies I'm sure.

I think most of us can probably come to the agreement that people will generally operate in self interest. The people who do steady business here on Bitcointalk are less likely to scam someone over 0.01 BTC if it means a loss of 1 BTC in revenue over the next (insert timeframe). Even with almost no accountability, more often than not we find this to be the case. So even if you don't trust hospitals, it makes reasonable sense that they aren't going to get themselves in trouble for an hour's revenue.

I know the people who hand down these dictates and trust them personally. Its the medical team at Johns Hopkins telling the government what they'd recommend. The government then independently verifies what they've been recommended, and passes the information on via official channels (CDC). The governors then decide where to go from there. The states that have been hit the worst have had to enact more strict measures, not the other way around. I'm inclined to believe that theres not a whole lot of trickery going on here because theres no incentive. The government is losing revenue and has to deal with annoyed citizens. The medical teams are getting paid less and working more hours, most people don't strive for a lose-lose situation. The federal bailout is an absolute joke, the amount of money given to the states for all of this is laughable. The money is going to corporations for stock buybacks, but at least multi million dollar corporation's CEOs will be in good positions once this is over.

I didn't say that it isn't effecting the supply chain, I said that the supply chain isn't broken, because those people involved are designated as essential. Everything has already been calculated. Shutting down is the cheapest solution. None of this is unprecedented. All of these measures have already been done by a handful of countries in the past 20 years for localized outbreaks (SARS in Canada, MERS in Korea, Ebola in Africa)

The self centered attitude of Americans is astounding to me. We're not the only country dealing with this, every country is the world is, and plenty to the same extent we are. We're just the only ones stupid enough to think that we're better off listening to idiots than doctors. Then we get severely more ill than everyone else and blame those doctors that we don't listen to in the first place.

Right, thats what I'm saying was done. In a 100% unrealistic ideal situation, a 14 or 21 day shutdown would 100% wipe out the spread, and we'd be back to normal. Instead in the real world where we can't just hibernate for 14-21 days in pods and then have a switch flip on and emerge, every time anyone gets infected, the timelines shift out. Its already been determined that for every $1 worth of labor someone produces without a mandatory shutdown, it would cost the country/state >$1 until certain requirements are met which I believe at the moment are listed as 14 days of downward trends, appropriate testing capability so you can get tested if you start feeling ill rather than having additional days to spread the virus while you await testing, and appropriate hospital capacity.

Whats ironic is that the people out protesting or those just generally blowing this off and not following guidelines are actively damaging the economy more than had they just sat on their asses at home. As a side note, as far as I know, agriculture is listed as essential business, so you're allowed to plant/work your fields throughout all of this. Truckers are also essential, and they've just had a few contact rules imposed on them at pickup/drop off points. Worst case scenario, we've got enough spam and candy corn to last us a few years!

The economy tanking, people starving, and supply lines being shut down is a valid concern, but these are all things that are already factored into the "official" reopening plans. The plan isn't to wait until the virus is completely gone, its to wait until the projected cases and death toll associated no longer outweighs the economic impact. No one has said, screw the economy lets all sit at home, it makes more economic sense to sit at home until we can get the corona virus under control.

As gruesome as it is, there is someone who's job it was to figure out the value of a human life and the dollar cost of the care involved for patients. Someone ran the numbers on how many people will be asymptomatic, how many people will require minimal care hospitalization, and how many will end up in the ICU. ICU cost on average will run around $140,000. Low care hospitalization around 10-15% of that. Funeral costs are $10k+, lost revenue in taxes from deaths =

I don't think there are very many people that want to sit home and earn $1200 deflated dollars to sit home on their asses, but its pretty tough to justify working at your $8/hr job at walmart when the statistics say you have X% chance of ending up with a lifetime of crippling hospital debt that'll become a financial burden on taxpayers when you can't pay.

This is sound advice, just talking about it will help. We don't know you well enough to give anything other than very vague and generally useful advice though. Just know that its understandable and normal, you shouldn't be embarrassed in the slightest, you're stressed out from the situation and it makes anxiety and depression more likely to happen even for people that've never dealt with it before.

Keep in mind, the lockdown and your depression are all temporary things, I know it sucks but at some date in the future you'll look back and realize that everything was fine. Just keep in mind that chances are good you are not in any sort of danger. The lockdown is about doing your part to help others that statistically might not be so lucky. If you're not in a high risk category, if you happened to get it, it'd likely just be a long lasting shitty cold.

Sorry I was curious and read this one, again while I disagree with it, did you read it and realize its saying exactly what I was saying as a joke about the Corona Virus actually being more dangerous than the media is claiming and that they're downplaying it? They're directly disagreeing with your point of view. "Its the old no worse than the flu narrative"

Well that depends, I believe you are referencing something we were talking about a long time ago regarding illnesses with vaccines, and unvaccinated people from other countries coming into the country. At the moment I'd completely agree with you, but given the state of things I'd also say travel between states is ill advised at the moment.

*edit*


I'll pass, thanks. I make it a point not to visit sites that are intentionally feeding their userbase false information for the sake of damaging them. Naturalnews doesn't actually believe the drivel they produce, they take the slightly gullible, radicalize them to their newfound sense of individuality and "free thinking" and take that chance to sell you things. I'm opposed to treating people like that, even those I don't care for. Look into their history as NewsTarget. At least Infowars and the other similar sites actually care about their users.

I can just say that we aren't going to come to an agreement on this. I don't think you have a very strong understanding of how the real world works with regards to conspiracy when it comes to risk, reward. I'm not denying that conspiracies aren't ever true, just that this one would probably be up there in difficulty to pull off along with the moon being fake. There is no motive, the amount of oversight is ridiculously high, and the effects are clearly visible. Again, I don't know why you choose to believe a television producer (part of the media) over government scientists, but believe what you want I guess. The burden of proof is too heavy because what I'd consider a reliable source is not one you're interested in. I cant show you hard facts and data that you accept as uncompromised, and I'm not willing to sift through snopes articles when credible and accurate information gathered by world governments is not up to snuff. Proving that the sky is blue to a blind man is tricky. There has never been a court case as to whether the sky is blue or not  

We can get vehicles to mars, and scan people's bodies for individual cells using positron annihilation, but we can't confirm the existence or effects of an observable microbe (that you can find images of on google images) science sure is pathetic isn't it.

(By the way your earlier posts weren't denying its existence or effects, just comparing it to the 2017-2018 flu and questioning whether the hysteria and shutdown was worth it, we've regressed)

I dont really trust courts, do you know how many mistrials there have been, how many scumbags let free and innocent people imprisoned? The amount of money you have, your skin color, and gender appreciably effect the outcome of a trial. I don't see why a jury is credible, its just mob justice in a civilized forum. Look at how many times big pharmaceutical companies have been to court and let off of charges because they had the money to hire very talented lawyers that knew how to appeal to people's emotions.

As a side note, why would there be any court cases regarding covid yet? The courts were closed due to covid, check back in a few months when we're on the assigning blame stage of the game and I'm sure you'll see plenty.


Is there fake news about coronavirus? Yeah probably. Do politicians ever lie? Yes. Does the media ever lie? Absolutely. Are doctors beyond the point where they might lie? No. Is it possible that there are misunderstandings if not intentional lies, No, probably not.

I don't think I've cited a single source from the media to this point because I'm with you on that. I'm not interested in what the sensationalist media has to say with their requirement for nonstop coverage of something. Even if they were being honest about everything you can easily invite misconceptions simply by the coverage amount. If you cover every single house fire that occurs in the world, people would get the impression that house fires are a greater risk than they statistically are. What I've cited is official data and statements made directly by the greatest authorities that we can possibly cite. If we can't trust the CDC which takes independent information from other respected institutions, verifies it, and then releases the statements official, then we can't trust anyone. Who's to say the flu exists?

Because there is a possibility that doctors could lie doesn't mean they are. We've yet to establish a single motive for why they'd lie. I think we can agree that people act in their own self interest in most cases. Politicians lie for money, to get reelected, to shift blame, etc. We first haven't established a single plausible reason that any individual doctor would lie. There is no gain for them here, it would be in their own personal interest to downplay the corona virus impact, as they're working harder (and for less pay in some cases) now more than ever.

The biggest issue I have with the idea of doctors lying is that every other doctor in the world keeps them in check. If researcher A put out a paper saying Corona Virus is similar to rabies and will turn you into a zombie, it takes millions of other researchers to nod their head. Its not that I have faith that a doctor would never lie, or simply get something wrong, its the sheer extent of the checks and balances that lead me to believe information that gets vetted by numerous sources. The same way I trust that Bitcoin is secure despite not 100% understanding it, is because there are so many chances for review from so many people, that if there was a serious issue, they'd point it out. I don't demand to see the technical specifications on a bridge before I drive over it. A single engineer may have made a calculation mistake, been pressured to use cheaper materials to cut costs, etc. But because it takes a team of engineers, I can be reasonably sure that the bridge is safe to drive over.

If your main point is that Researcher A gets it wrong and convinces everyone else to sign off on it despite not understanding what Researcher A was saying, then not only would I say you aren't familiar in the slightest with the medical field, but I'd say with no profession at all. A housing inspector doesn't look at the electrical work an electrician has done and just go, ah it was done by a licensed electrician, I don't know what they did here, but I'll trust them and sign off on these papers. Every person that signs off on something assumes a certain amount of liability. If Researcher A says, hey maybe corona virus will cause you to become a zombie, people don't nod their head enthusiastically, they'll review what lead them to come to that conclusion and test it before nodding their heads and passing it onto the next group that then repeats the process.

The various "cures" for corona virus that everyone is hopeful about very well may work! If you've noticed however every medical professional is very cautious about how they word it. If they give hydroxychloroquine to 10,000 patients and it helps all 10,000 of them, they still can't call it a cure or medicine used for treating covid until it goes through that whole review process and then finally vetted by the FDA.

Can you prove to me that anyone has ever been in a car accident? I've actually never seen one occur, and I'm only taking peoples word that they even happen. I will accept the same sort of proof that you'd require.



My theory actually has more merit than yours because I've established motive. The government absolutely could mandate that health officials not release real information to prevent panic, and they'd have incentive to. There would still be whistle blowers, but you've disregarded that point as fact so I dont see why I can't make the same assumption.

In the US we're currently at 42,000 deaths and 800,000 cases. Now while we've already chatted about representation since only those that physically see a doctor or are deemed worthy of a test are represented in the official number of cases, there would have to be 30x more people with corona virus than the official count to be equally as bad as the 2017-2018 flu, one of the worst on record.

If we use the worldwide numbers (2.5 million cases and 170,000 deaths) its statistically 40x worse. Typically I'd hesitate to draw any conclusions based on worldwide numbers versus the US figures since 90% of the deaths could have been in a country where the medical care is subpar or for a variety of other reasons, but its not totally outrageous to consider the worldwide stats considering our medical care (based on preparedness) is whats considered subpar in this case.

None of those numbers are definitive for the reasons mentioned, however when you see a 40x magnitude you can start to get an idea.



Not news, official data put out by our government under the authority of god emperor Trump.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

*edit*

Actually, I'm changing my stance. BADecker is correct that the doctors are lying to us. I believe they are down playing the whole situation and covid19 actually has an 80-90%+ fatality rate. They're telling random people with colds that they have covid to boost the number of cases to offset the fatality count to keep people from panicking. Del Bigtree is being propped up by the WHO to seed conspiracy theories to put people more at ease. By my figures, covid has already killed more than 500 million people.

Alright, all of that is coherent. You don't get counted in the Covid statistics unless you are tested and test positive. There are a few ways to think about that. Tons of people with Covid19 like symptoms are not tested and simply told to stay home. They either then do or don't have Covid19, but regardless aren't counted. That would mean that the total Covid19 spread is greater than what the numbers suggest which may mean its less fatal than expected. On the other hand, people that die at home also aren't counted towards the fatalities unless they were tested and then die at home. New York put out a comment that there was an abnormal amount of people had been found dead at home this year. Basically the total cases and deaths are underrepresented by the official count, whats at question is the cases:fatalities ratio.

In cases where people are tested and hospitalized, they know for certain that its Covid19 and not an extra-strong flu. For the people who aren't tested and told to stay home because they have a cough and fever, you're absolutely right, they could have the flu or any other sort of cold, but they have no bearing on the statistics.

I'm not sure I'd call 11 years and with frequent occurring (though often fixed) problems a track record, but thats your opinion. The Bitcoin protocol gets tinkered with frequently by a small group of people, and we are trusting their word that theres no undesirable changes made. We are also trusting those capable of reading and understanding those changes to publicly say something if they spot something. I hope it was obvious that the reason I brought this up, is because we are putting the same trust in medical professionals to call each other out if someone says something untrustworthy.

I have no idea the legitimacy of this source, so please feel free to disregard any numbers they put forward, but the narrative is corroborated and explains what I meant. https://gothamist.com/news/surge-number-new-yorkers-dying-home-officials-suspect-undercount-covid-19-related-deaths

important part if you don't feel like clicking a link.

Again, with regards to specialization, you don't need to be an expert on Corona viruses to be an expert on Covid19, a virologist, infectious disease expert (Fauci), or one of the other 15 adjacent fields will suffice. This isn't really rocket surgery, my home lab and a medical textbook would suffice to give some information on Covid19. Laboratories full of experts would do an even better job.

You aren't getting the whole, medical professionals see Covid19 vs Sars the same way we would macroscopically see a tiger vs a lion. They are both big cats, but if you know what you're looking for you can tell the two apart. If we throw a panther, tabby cat, and a leopard into the mix, you can still identify the tiger. So we've got five cats, we now test their DNA/RNA whatever makes the analogy work, and we cannot differentiate between the tiger and lion?

I don't have access to the death statistics for the first 4 months of the flu in the US. When we first started discussing in this thread a few days ago, we were at 1/3rd the fatalities of the 2017-2018 flu. We're now at 1/2. We looked at the 80,000 deaths versus 48.8 million infected in the US by the 2017-2018 flu. There have been 738,000 infected and 38,000 deaths with Covid19. The order of magnitudes should be pretty apparent... throw in a hypothetical and outrageous 50% margin of error, and its still sort of telling.

Food riots and economic impact are a worthwhile discussion since there is absolutely no way  that we'll come to any sort of understanding using medical science and data analysis given that we can't agree on sources, or baseline common grounds.



This is somewhat related, but I'm just curious, do you use Bitcoin? If so, are you a computer scientist that specializes in cryptography? And if not, why do you trust Bitcoin? Its open source sure, but the only people who can read that source and really understand it are very specifically technically skilled people, a far smaller base than the medical professionals who understand Covid19. If you are like me and familiar with computer science but no where near competent enough to read line by line through to make sure there isn't a line somewhere that allows something to happen that we don't want to happen, how do you trust Bitcoin? I'm pretty comfortable knowing that there are a small handful of people who'd love nothing better than to point out flaws in the Bitcoin protocol as soon as they're found.

3D modeling is a handy skill. Its fairly easy to find freelance work for people who want a 3D model of something for rapid prototyping.