[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[ArcticWolf]

and btw, any salary paid is a expense and this will reduce the net income, that is used to calculate the dividends.
People holding priv distributed shares are no different form people holding publicly traded shares unless there are some special conditions set.

Ok that makes sense, thanks for the explanation

[Vbs]

ActiveMining (AM) is a virtual identity totally held by the owner(s) of the Active Mining Corporation. The Active Mining Corporation's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC).

I don't get it, does it look like this now?

    AMC
  ---^---
  |       |
 AM   VMC

AMC owns a 100% VMC, and owns 60% of AM?

Why the confusion? Bitfountain also holds ASICMINER in the same way.

In the example above, AMC (in Belize) owns VMC Delaware (the management owned part) and ActiveMiner (the public owned part). The parent company has to be outside of US, for avoiding legal troubles.

[Vbs]

I would just add some text (underlines) for clarification, as well as a clause for investors to have dibs on the first profits.

VMC/AMC Merger

This is a Pre-Merger VMC Offering.

(This Is For Community Review Only)

The Final Offering May Be DIFFERENT

(This Document Is For Community Review Only And May Contain Errors)

============================================================================================================================

Introduction
ActiveMining (AM) is a virtual identity totally held by the owner(s) of the Active Mining Corporation, representing 100% of the whole net income of the Active Mining Corporation. The Active Mining Corporation's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC). Currently, it is expected for interested investors to hold 10,000,000 AM shares (40% of the whole net income), while Active Mining Corporation owner(s) shall hold 15,000,000 AM shares (60% of the whole net income), for a total of 25,000,000 AM virtual shares. ActiveMining shares have the privilege of getting all net profits until 0.0025/share from the day when dividends begin to be paid.

The issuing of more AM shares will be allowed in the future, provided there is strong economic justification, mainly on the basis of covering emergent capital needs. Existing shareholders also get the first choice for buying new shares before they are sold on the open market. The volume of new shares shall be kept at a minimum as much as possible and the pricing of them should be such that the total value of all AM assets (tangible and intangible) per share does not diminish, protecting shareholders as much as possible from future dilution of value.

How to buy shares
AM shares will be sold on BitFunder and BTCT.CO, following asset approval. Existing Active Mining Cooperative (AMC) shareholders will be entitled to trade their shares for ActiveMining shares, on a 1:1 basis.

Dividend payment
The whole Active Mining Corporation's income, including mining income, sales via bitcoins or other cryptocoins and fiat income transferred to bitcoins, will be paid to ActiveMining shareholders proportionally, when all manufacturing, maintenance, labor costs, R&D, and miscellaneous expenses are deducted.

Our chips
Generation 1: Fast-Hash. 28nm. Each chip's rated frequency is 800 MHz at 1.15V. It translates to 16,000 MH/s because it does 20 hashs per cycle. Chip requires proper handling of heat and power supply.

 I think the added clause can be key in supporting the .0025 price, as it says two things to investors:
- For current AMC investors, it says that they don't need to sell now, because they will get their .0025 anyway AND support AM's expansion;
- For new investors, it says the price they pay will be guaranteed to have a fast return, and be fully paid back.

Basically, the company structure is: Active Mining Corporation owns VMC; the profits structure is: ActiveMining shares represent 100% of the whole profits, to be split 40% to public owned and 60% to management.

[auto2nr1]

ActiveMining (AM) is a virtual identity totally held by the owner(s) of the Active Mining Corporation. The Active Mining Corporation's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC).

I don't get it, does it look like this now?

    AMC
  ---^---
  |       |
 AM   VMC

AMC owns a 100% VMC, and owns 60% of AM?

Why the confusion? Bitfountain also holds ASICMINER in the same way.

In the example above, AMC (in Belize) owns VMC Delaware (the management owned part) and ActiveMiner (the public owned part). The parent company has to be outside of US, for avoiding legal troubles.

**COMPANY STRUCTURE**

  COMPANY NAME HERE (name can be anything/replace it)
    -------^-------
   |                     |
  40%                60%
 PUBLIC            MGMT
 OWNED           OWNED
10M SHARES  15M SHARES

Can't we just do this? Why do we need VMC DELAWARE? There is no need for more than one entity to be formed and making it more difficult for everyone to understand. Let's keep it simple. We have all been agreeing that we should make things as simple as possible. Let's do away with all these names and subsidiaries that end up confusing everyone and just say that COMPANY NAME HERE will be what the shareholders are going to be investing in and 40% will be us and 60% will be the management. If the company must be located outside of the US for legal issues then that is not a issue as long as the structure looks and stays the same as it is shown above. I am pretty sure everyone is on board with this. Does anyone object to this? Any confusions? I think this is as simple as it gets and it is pretty straightforward.

[EskimoBob]

ActiveMining (AM) is a virtual identity totally held by the owner(s) of the Active Mining Corporation. The Active Mining Corporation's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC).

I don't get it, does it look like this now?

    AMC
  ---^---
  |       |
 AM   VMC

AMC owns a 100% VMC, and owns 60% of AM?

Why the confusion? Bitfountain also holds ASICMINER in the same way.

In the example above, AMC (in Belize) owns VMC Delaware (the management owned part) and ActiveMiner (the public owned part). The parent company has to be outside of US, for avoiding legal troubles.

You expect them to produce 3 monthly reports? AMC as a holding co. and one for AM and for VMC?

I personally like if it's all in one Co and has 2 "departments" but they all report as one. In the real world, I do not mind but there are mechanisms to keep this stuff in check. Guess what, regardless of strict rules and regulations, subsidiaries are still used to milk the parent co and fuck over the shareholders or vs.  
Thank you but no thanks.

[auto2nr1]

You expect them to produce 3 monthly reports? AMC as a holding co. and one for AM and for VMC?

I personally like if it's all in one Co and has 2 "departments" but they all report as one. In the real world, I do not mind but there are mechanisms to keep this stuff in check. Guess what, regardless of strict rules and regulations, subsidiaries are still used to milk the parent co and fuck over the shareholders or vs.  
Thank you but no thanks.

+1

One company is what we should go for. Within that one company we can call the 40% division/department ACTIVE MINING and we can just call the 60% division/department VMC (management). This is strictly just to distinguish the split between 40% and 60%. The name doesn't really matter we can call the 40%  INVESTORS and the 60% MANAGEMENT for all i care. The important thing is for shareholders and potential investors to know they are putting their money into ONE company. No confusion. Plain and simple.

[EskimoBob]

You expect them to produce 3 monthly reports? AMC as a holding co. and one for AM and for VMC?

I personally like if it's all in one Co and has 2 "departments" but they all report as one. In the real world, I do not mind but there are mechanisms to keep this stuff in check. Guess what, regardless of strict rules and regulations, subsidiaries are still used to milk the parent co and fuck over the shareholders or vs.  
Thank you but no thanks.

+1

One company is what we should go for. Within that one company we can call the 40% division/department ACTIVE MINING and we can just call the 60% division/department VMC (management). This is strictly just to distinguish the split between 40% and 60%. The name doesn't really matter we can call the 40% just INVESTORS and the 60% MANAGEMENT. The important thing is for shareholders and potential investors to know they are putting their money into ONE company. No confusion. Plain and simple.

There is no need to even do that because it's a single co. Management and general public (as shareholders) are equal.
Management holds 60% of the shares and rest of it is sold to public. That is it.
On the financial reports, yes, you can show the income from different departments but the profit it's still distributed equally per! share.

[discobean]

ActiveMining (AM) is a virtual identity totally held by the owner(s) of the Active Mining Corporation. The Active Mining Corporation's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC).

I don't get it, does it look like this now?

    AMC
  ---^---
  |       |
 AM   VMC

AMC owns a 100% VMC, and owns 60% of AM?

Why the confusion? Bitfountain also holds ASICMINER in the same way.

In the example above, AMC (in Belize) owns VMC Delaware (the management owned part) and ActiveMiner (the public owned part). The parent company has to be outside of US, for avoiding legal troubles.

No, bitfountain has shares in asicminer.  Just as Joe off the street does.

This is 3 companies, with what correlation?

Legal troubles?  What part of everything here is legal?

[Vbs]

"ActiveMining (AM) is a virtual identity representing all the profits of the Active Mining Corporation and is totally owned by it. The Active Mining Corporation's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC)."

This should make it more clear. AM is not a real "entity" or structure, it just represents the profits. The only "real" structures are Active Mining Corp who owns everything, including VMC.

AM shares just represent how the whole profits are split.

[bigdude]

I don't get it, does it look like this now?

    AMC
  ---^---
  |       |
 AM   VMC

AMC owns a 100% VMC, and owns 60% of AM?

Why the confusion? Bitfountain also holds ASICMINER in the same way.

In the example above, AMC (in Belize) owns VMC Delaware (the management owned part) and ActiveMiner (the public owned part). The parent company has to be outside of US, for avoiding legal troubles.

No, bitfountain has shares in asicminer.  Just as Joe off the street does.

This is 3 companies, with what correlation?

Legal troubles?  What part of everything here is legal?

Doesn't ASICMINER look like this?

     ASICMINER
    ------^-------
    |                |
 Public     Bitfountain
Shares    (managers)


In which case, no one needs to worry about Bitfountain - they do their own thing (ie. own majority shares, and manage asicminer)?

Then ALL income belongs to ASICMINER, and profits are distributed. Simple

Ken has it so that everything is intertwined, 10% royalties, different company mining, to different company doing hardware and sales and blah blah.

Stop making this complex.

Below is the structure as it should be as done by auto2nr1, nice and simple.

**STRUCTURE**

   ENTITY NAME
   -----^-----
  |               |
 40%          60%
PUBLIC       MGMT
OWNED      OWNED

40% of the shares will be sold to the public (10m shares)
60% of the shares will be held privately by management (15m shares)

Then all revenue goes to 'Entity Name', and it ditributes profit to share holders (40% / 60%)

Then, Ken's salary and whatever else should be his own business, coming out of the 60% - that's his pay. This is what ASICMINER does I believe.

[Vbs]

I don't get it, does it look like this now?

    AMC
  ---^---
  |       |
 AM   VMC

AMC owns a 100% VMC, and owns 60% of AM?

Why the confusion? Bitfountain also holds ASICMINER in the same way.

In the example above, AMC (in Belize) owns VMC Delaware (the management owned part) and ActiveMiner (the public owned part). The parent company has to be outside of US, for avoiding legal troubles.

No, bitfountain has shares in asicminer.  Just as Joe off the street does.

This is 3 companies, with what correlation?

Legal troubles?  What part of everything here is legal?

Doesn't ASICMINER look like this?

     ASICMINER
    ------^-------
    |                |
 Public     Bitfountain
Shares    (managers)


In which case, no one needs to worry about Bitfountain - they do their own thing (ie. own majority shares, and manage asicminer)?

Then ALL income belongs to ASICMINER, and profits are distributed. Simple

No, it looks like this:

        Bitfountain
     ------^-------
     |                |
ASICMINER  Bitfountain
   Shares       Shares

Ken has it so that everything is intertwined, 10% royalties, different company mining, to different company doing hardware and sales and blah blah.

Stop making this complex.

Below is the structure as it should be as done by auto2nr1, nice and simple.

**STRUCTURE**

   ENTITY NAME
   -----^-----
  |               |
 40%          60%
PUBLIC       MGMT
OWNED      OWNED

40% of the shares will be sold to the public (10m shares)
60% of the shares will be held privately by management (15m shares)

Then all revenue goes to 'Entity Name', and it ditributes profit to share holders (40% / 60%)

Then, Ken's salary and whatever else should be his own business, coming out of the 60% - that's his pay. This is what ASICMINER does I believe.

It's not complex anymore. All royalties, complex details, etc were scrapped. It's not complex anymore!

The biggest confusion at the moment seems to be people are thinking there is a new division in place (AM). It's not!

There is just ONE thing now, Active Mining Corporation, that owns everything. AM shares are just a means to divide the profit, nothing else.

The current structure is:

     Active Mining Corp
       ------^-------
       |                |
   10M AM       15M AM
    Public      Management
   Shares         Shares

[lolstate]

I don't get it, does it look like this now?

    AMC
  ---^---
  |       |
 AM   VMC

AMC owns a 100% VMC, and owns 60% of AM?

Why the confusion? Bitfountain also holds ASICMINER in the same way.

In the example above, AMC (in Belize) owns VMC Delaware (the management owned part) and ActiveMiner (the public owned part). The parent company has to be outside of US, for avoiding legal troubles.

No, bitfountain has shares in asicminer.  Just as Joe off the street does.

This is 3 companies, with what correlation?

Legal troubles?  What part of everything here is legal?

Doesn't ASICMINER look like this?

     ASICMINER
    ------^-------
    |                |
 Public     Bitfountain
Shares    (managers)


In which case, no one needs to worry about Bitfountain - they do their own thing (ie. own majority shares, and manage asicminer)?

Then ALL income belongs to ASICMINER, and profits are distributed. Simple

No, it looks like this:

        Bitfountain
     ------^-------
     |                |
ASICMINER  Bitfountain
   Shares       Shares

Ken has it so that everything is intertwined, 10% royalties, different company mining, to different company doing hardware and sales and blah blah.

Stop making this complex.

Below is the structure as it should be as done by auto2nr1, nice and simple.

**STRUCTURE**

   ENTITY NAME
   -----^-----
  |               |
 40%          60%
PUBLIC       MGMT
OWNED      OWNED

40% of the shares will be sold to the public (10m shares)
60% of the shares will be held privately by management (15m shares)

Then all revenue goes to 'Entity Name', and it ditributes profit to share holders (40% / 60%)

Then, Ken's salary and whatever else should be his own business, coming out of the 60% - that's his pay. This is what ASICMINER does I believe.

It's not complex anymore. All royalties, complex details, etc were scrapped. It's not complex anymore!

The biggest confusion at the moment seems to be people are thinking there is a new division in place (AM). It's not!

There is just ONE thing now, Active Mining Corporation, that owns everything. AM shares are just a means to divide the profit, nothing else.

The current structure is:

     Active Mining Corp
       ------^-------
       |                |
   10M AM       15M AM
    Public      Management
   Shares         Shares

That's how I see it as well. I'm ok with the proposed structure.

[mobile]

The current structure is:

     Active Mining Corp
       ------^-------
       |                |
   10M AM       15M AM
    Public      Management
   Shares         Shares

That's how I see it as well. I'm ok with the proposed structure.

+1 Looking good....

[kslaughter]

(This Is For Community Review Only)

The Final Offering May Be DIFFERENT

(This Document Is For Community Review Only And May Contain Errors)

Version 2 7/5/13

============================================================================================================================

Introduction
ActiveMining (AM) is a virtual identity representing all the profits of the Active Mining Corporation and is totally owned by it. The Active Mining Corporation's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC). The Active Mining Corporation's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC).

Currently, it is expected for interested investors to hold 10,000,000 AM shares (40% of the profits), while Active Mining Corporation owner(s) shall hold 15,000,000 AM shares (60% of the profits), for a total of 25,000,000 AM virtual shares that represent 100% of the global profits of the Active Mining Corporation.

The first 10,000,000 ActiveMining shares bought by interested investors have the privilege of getting all profits until BTC0.0025/share is paid, starting from the day when dividends begin to be paid.

The issuing of more AM shares will be allowed in the future, provided there is strong economic justification, mainly on the basis of covering emergent capital needs. Existing shareholders also get the first choice for buying new shares before they are sold on the open market. The volume of new shares shall be kept at a minimum as much as possible and the pricing of them should be such that the total value of all Active Mining Corporation's assets (tangible and intangible) per AM share does not diminish, protecting shareholders as much as possible from future dilution of value.

How to buy shares
AM shares will be sold on BitFunder and BTCT.CO and any other exchange, following asset approval. Existing Active Mining Cooperative (AMC) shareholders will be entitled to trade their shares for ActiveMining shares, on a 1:1 basis.

Dividend payment
The global Active Mining Corporation's income, including mining income, hardware sales via bitcoins, other cryptocoins and fiat transferred to bitcoins, will be paid to ActiveMining shareholders proportionally, when all manufacturing, maintenance, labor costs, R&D, and miscellaneous expenses are deducted. The first BTC0.0025/share dividends will only be paid to the first 10,000,000 AM shares sold, providing investors a priority in getting back 100% return of their investment.

Our chips
Generation 1: Fast-Hash. 28nm. Each chip's rated frequency is 800 MHz at 1.15V. It translates to 16,000 MH/s because it does 20 hashes per cycle. Chip requires proper handling of heat and power supply.

Our current hardware assets
- 6 Avalon miners, running on BTC Guild under "Team AMC" for around 430 GH/s.
- Order of Avalon chips from steamboat's batch #1, for 68 Klondike-16 boards, rated at 68*16*282 = 307 GH/s
- 20,000 Avalon chips (end of May and beginging of June orders), for a combined hashrate of 20,000*282 = 5,640 GH/s
In total, around 6,377 GH/s[/b].

Version 2 7/5/13

[Vbs]

Well... I can't figure out how it can get any better than this guys!

The fact Ken isn't receiving any dividends on his shares until the public shares get a whooping 0.0025/share in dividends should really stop all the FUD!

My hat is off to you sir!

[funkymunky]

This is getting better by the day.

Thank you for the perseverance.

[lolstate]

This is getting better by the day.

Thank you for the perseverance.

Yep, this does it for me! 

[forensick]

started to be too complicated, usually i prefer easy business, 1 company, 1 profit

[lolstate]

started to be too complicated, usually i prefer easy business, 1 company, 1 profit

What's complicated? At this stage it is decision time, you are either in or out. If you don't like the deal sell or walk away.

[ChefBorjan]

I'm in as always, but watching BTC value slide down is tempting me to temporarily let go of my stock and try and sell BTC with the aim of buying back in a few days... then buying back AMC. I'm sure by then AMC will have risen yet again, cancelling out any small gains I made.