[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[ArcticWolf]

Im guessing those people selling AMC shares at under 0.0025 dont read these forums haha

Well, who is to say that just because we convert shares to the new AM, that those new AM shares are worth 0.0025 for those who want to sell.

There is already the mass 2million+ wall of shares at .0025 - https://bitfunder.com/asset/ActiveMining

The minute the transfer of AMC to AM shares take place, people will sell them at 0.00249 and undercut the wall again.

So do you think the AMC shares should be valued at 0.0025 - that is why the price of shares is less than that now.

The only thing that will make the price rise, is that AM performs and value increases, then share prices will increase naturally.

I say it in lieu of the fact that I believe the share prices will be worth a minimum that is a few factors more than the release price of 0.0025.

https://bitfunder.com/asset/ActiveMining

As I said, it happening already. As soon as AM shares are in peoples hands - they will sell and undercut the 2mil+ wall of shares at .0025

Now, the price will simply start drifting down as people cut in front of each other to sell ... boom, price will be the same as AMC.

Price will never increase so long as the wall is there.

So people hoping to buy AMC shares now, and convert to AM for a profit - will fail. The price on both AMC and AM will be the same. So no point in trying to buy AMC cheap, and profit on AM - price points will be the same

Unless you plan to buy and hold, and make the 0.0025 in dividends as promised

[Ashitank]

Guys can any body point me to how to set-up 2nd factor on bitfunder , do I need to have a android phone which I dont , please help 

[ArcticWolf]

Guys can any body point me to how to set-up 2nd factor on bitfunder , do I need to have a android phone which I dont , please help 

Go to the account tab, it's in there.
Also look for "google authenticator" on the iOS App Store (if you have apple)

[Ashitank]

Guys can any body point me to how to set-up 2nd factor on bitfunder , do I need to have a android phone which I dont , please help 

Go to the account tab, it's in there.
Also look for "google authenticator" on the iOS App Store (if you have apple)

Sorry to be OT.

Let me rephrase my question, if I dont have a android phone & Apple Ios phone is there as way for me to set-up google 2nd factor like on windows it self.

[Exocyst]

https://bitfunder.com/asset/ActiveMining

As I said, it happening already. As soon as AM shares are in peoples hands - they will sell and undercut the 2mil+ wall of shares at .0025

Now, the price will simply start drifting down as people cut in front of each other to sell ... boom, price will be the same as AMC.

Price will never increase so long as the wall is there.

So people hoping to buy AMC shares now, and convert to AM for a profit - will fail. The price on both AMC and AM will be the same. So no point in trying to buy AMC cheap, and profit on AM - price points will be the same

I agree your points are valid, but you may be underestimating the impact of a perceived value increase in AM regarding the increased ownership in VMC and all dividends up to 0.0025. So, we may just see a fair slice come out of the wall as new investors join up with Active Miner.

Personally, I am holding long.

[keewee]

So how many companies will we have to follow as holders of AMC, VMC, AM? Seems like all are owned by Ken and feed each other.  Why is one joining another and swapping into a different set of shares? Just to hit that adjusted IPO price? Is a new company going to be formed with each Fast-Hash unit that is made?

Why all the hoops?

I am a little confused as to why this couldn't be handled at the exchange level.  Mergers and buyouts happen on wall street all the time and the exchanges handle things behind the scenes for the shareholders.

Ken, if you need help I'm happy to help transition everyone on AMC-PT to the new issue...  That way noone gets left behind.

Cheers.

You rock burnside! Currently all of mine are on bitfunder but I'd like to have them split between the two

I just PM'd Ken and offered up the assistance of btct.co.  When the new issue is approved we would lock trading on AMC-PT and transfer over all the shares to the new issue.  It'd be painless for everyone involved.

Cheers.

I'm all for this. I'll be overseas until the 30th so will only have intermittent internet access. Just bad timing for me

[EskimoBob]

You also need to figure out, how to lock down 60% of issued shares so it will be excluded from the dividends, until 0.0025 is paid to 40% share holders.
Please talk to Bitfunder and btct.co.

You probably need to move 60% from issued shares to a special account and have it locked down and handled as treasury stock (no divs).
BTW, when (date?) can management start selling its shares on the open market?

[ArcticWolf]

....
Well, since bitfunder does it over all the issued shares it will be over 10 million, however the dividends from the unsold shares will go into the pot for the next weeks dividends.

WHAT?! You can not pay dividends to treasury stock. Think about it for a second. This is beyond absurd if bitfunder allows this

If you have issued 1 000 shares (Shares Total in btf speak) and 100 are outstanding (not held by issuer aka issued and sold to shareholders "Shares Issued" in btf speak), profits will be divided among 100 shares and not by 1 000 shares. 900 shares are treasury stock and those have no right for dividends, voting or for anything else.

Issued shares - shares outstanding = treasury stock


If a Co buys  back its own shares for whatever reason (usually undervalued on the market and Co has huge amounts of cash laying around) those shares become automatically treasury stock.

This

Talked with Ukto, and he is going to be changing this.

Just for you EskimoBob

[EskimoBob]

.....
Talked with Ukto, and he is going to be changing this.

Just for you EskimoBob
[/quote]

Thank you, I did read it but this is only a half of the "problem".
He has a management, who owns 60% shares and if I recall correctly, they have some type of trading restrictions too.
This is where the separate locked account comes to play.

Or you can keep the shares as treasury stock until the 0.0025 is paid and then move (so it's transparent!) the shares to management accounts. What if he gets a itch to dump those at market? Remember S.DICE? It was ugly.

[stenkross]

Hi,

Will it matter if I keep AMC for a longer period (during the co-existence period) or if I switch to ActiveMining now in regards to dividends payout?
In my opinion it should not, but I just want to get it confirmed that 1 share will get equal dividend payout during this period.

Also, Ken, before paying out dividends, can you please make sure those who transferred their AMC shares to you get ActiveMining shares in return before paying out dividends.
So they don't miss out on a dividend payout because of this transfer.

Cheers.

[Ashitank]

Sorry to be OT.

Let me rephrase my question, if I dont have a android phone & Apple Ios phone is there as way for me to set-up google 2nd factor like on windows it self.

Guys without Android & Ios phones use this tool to generate google 2nd factor on your system running windows : http://www.maxoutput.com/authenticator/

[zxyzxy]

or this great thing https://github.com/gbraad/html5-google-authenticator
download the ZIP package, open index.html and go

[gambit1]

I saw this on bt.tc

Shareholders-by tendering their shares-will be able to increase their ownership in the new company from 10% in AMC to 40% in ActiveMining.  This increase in ownership should increase the dividends proportionally.  Also, there is a guarantee in place which guarantees shareholders 100% of the dividends until .0025 BTC in dividends has been paid before the remaining 15,000,000 million shares receive any dividends.

Ok. How do I tender my shares to increase my holding?

Thanks.

[ArcticWolf]

I saw this on bt.tc

Shareholders-by tendering their shares-will be able to increase their ownership in the new company from 10% in AMC to 40% in ActiveMining.  This increase in ownership should increase the dividends proportionally.  Also, there is a guarantee in place which guarantees shareholders 100% of the dividends until .0025 BTC in dividends has been paid before the remaining 15,000,000 million shares receive any dividends.

Ok. How do I tender my shares to increase my holding?

Thanks.

There were 100,000,000 shares of AMC and there are 25,000,000 shares of AM, so each share is 4x more of the company.

[gambit1]

Yeah but will they be converted automatically or do I have to do something?

[ArcticWolf]

Yeah but will they be converted automatically or do I have to do something?

Ah sorry I misinterpreted the question.
You have to send the shares to ken, and then send an email.
Details here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252531.msg2685508#msg2685508

[Vbs]

https://bitfunder.com/asset/ActiveMining

As I said, it happening already. As soon as AM shares are in peoples hands - they will sell and undercut the 2mil+ wall of shares at .0025

Now, the price will simply start drifting down as people cut in front of each other to sell ... boom, price will be the same as AMC.

Price will never increase so long as the wall is there.

So people hoping to buy AMC shares now, and convert to AM for a profit - will fail. The price on both AMC and AM will be the same. So no point in trying to buy AMC cheap, and profit on AM - price points will be the same

I agree your points are valid, but you may be underestimating the impact of a perceived value increase in AM regarding the increased ownership in VMC and all dividends up to 0.0025. So, we may just see a fair slice come out of the wall as new investors join up with Active Miner.

Personally, I am holding long.

Yes, unfortunately this works just like a panic situation where people crush each other just to get out of somewhere, while if they did it more or less orderly everyone would escape.

On this case, the more shares from the wall are sold, the more valuable is the company as a whole and more each share is worth, so the undercutters deprive everyone of that bonus until all their shares are sold, even if they are pricing them just one satoshi less.

This is why on a properly implemented exchange there are both a primary and secondary markets. Having only a secondary market is a mess. A primary market means there is always a way to buy shares from the issuer itself.

So many complains about existing exchanges but this one major flaw gets overlooked a lot. The only exchange that has this properly implemented is Havelock.

[kslaughter]

Ok this is probably a stupid question, but i missed the answer:

Have the total of 10.000.000 shares been sold yet? In other words, if i want to get on the "first-shareholders protection" (paid 0.0025BTC/per share), can I still buy these (i would buy AMC-PT) or not?

There are plenty of shares left as of this writing.  You can purchase the shares on bitfunder.com asset ActiveMining or you can purchase AMC shares on bitfunder and tender them or you can purchase AMC-PT on BTC-TC and tender them.

[merv77]

Ok this is probably a stupid question, but i missed the answer:

Have the total of 10.000.000 shares been sold yet? In other words, if i want to get on the "first-shareholders protection" (paid 0.0025BTC/per share), can I still buy these (i would buy AMC-PT) or not?

There are plenty of shares left as of this writing.  You can purchase the shares on bitfunder.com asset ActiveMining or you can purchase AMC shares on bitfunder and tender them or you can purchase AMC-PT on BTC-TC and tender them.

probably another stupid question, again
but what's the difference if purchasing shares as you've mentioned above? (ActiveMining or AMC and tendering) and/or AMC-PT and tendering. Any advantages with any? and obviously which is less work for you Ken 

[navitatl]

"There are plenty of shares left as of this writing.  You can purchase the shares on bitfunder.com asset ActiveMining or you can purchase AMC shares on bitfunder and tender them or you can purchase AMC-PT on BTC-TC and tender them."

Got it, thanks. I see that share price is considerably cheaper on BitFunder, maybe i should move funds there (and to diversify) instead of BTCT. Just one more newbie question - at the registration page on BitFunder there is a request to input BTC address. "(Note: This address will be posted in public view, with a listing of shares per asset. This will ensure your anonymity, while being able to prove identity, and holdings.)
This address will not, and can not be used to withdraw to."

Is this an address i can get in my Bitcoin wallet or where should i get/generate this address? Yeah, newbie...

You just want to use an address that you have control of, ie the private key for. It could be in your wallet, or generated in a paper wallet, or whatever.