А как их можно продать мало ?  Если речь про полноценный ASIC именно по такой цене, то произвести надо десятки тысяч, как минимум. Да, конечно, можно остальные выбросить, но цена готовых продуктов, вроде, не такая уж высокая для этого. А Вы думаете их на заводе Фоксконн заказали? Думаю, это было сделано в маленькой компании, которая специализируется на выпуске пробных небольших экспериментальных партий. Кстати я в своем городе обратился к такому отделу завода (тут есть бывший оборонный завод, где делали чипы!  ) , так партия из 1000 шт очень грубо будет стоить 100кУсд, но они щас оборонзаказом завалены, так что не так все печально.Так от завода не зависит. $100к - это очень оптимистично, наверное без масок или 320 нм технология или без корпусировки ? Дело в том, что основные затраты - это маски и разработка самого дизайна. Если считать что вся партия обойдётся в $1m, то это будет $1000 за чип в итоге при партии в 1000 или $100 за чип при партии в 10 000, ну или $25 за чип (условно) при партии в 100 000. Да, заказать экспериментально на общей вафле или одну вафлю можно. Но рентабельным это не будет никак. Как я уже писал, лишние можно и выбросить. Но заказывать 10 000 и меньше, если это именно реальный ASIC, никто не будет. Из этого можно сделать один замечательный вывод... Покупайте Ялопены, они на самом деле не совсем 3,5Гх, я бы даже сказал совсем не 3,5гх ))), и всего за $150. |
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Well, I could say you have to have a banking license, 'just to participate' in banking business. You need a license for frequency 'just to participate' in communication business. And there are no small licenses for starters, i.e. not affordable for an average person. Bitcoin personal banking system lets you 'mine' at very low cost. Right now you're complaining that in order to dig for gold you have to buy a shovel, since all gold on the surface is gone and you can't just take it with your hands, so to speak. However, unlike shovels for gold digging, ASICs can be eventually integrated into other, more casual items, like cars, public bitcoincard processing hubs, even laptops and cellphones. That's if Bitcoin becomes widely accepted....
I think trying to compare mining bitcoin to two federally regulated industries is a bit of a straw-man argument. With that said I'm not even going to bother talking about those points. As per your shovel and mining gold analogy: I view digging with your hands akin to CPU mining and the shovel akin to GPU mining. You can mine for gold with a shovel, sure. You can also pot plants; dig a grave, ditch, hole; and clean up dog shit. A shovel is a pretty versatile tool that can be used for many other things than digging for gold. In fact, a lot of people already own shovels so re-purposing the shovel to dig for gold means anyone who owns a shovel can potentially dig for gold. I suppose one could say that the FPGA is like a back-ho. It's much more efficient, however it costs more to purchase and at the end of the day, in most places you need to be a ticketed operator to use one. I view the ASIC kind of like a specialized industry specific machine:  It's going to be insanely efficient at serving it's purpose (ignoring cost), and it's not something you have just kicking around the backyard. It's also got no real use outside of it's intended industry. All of those points aside, I think there's a massive disconnect between the current ASIC state and having manufacturers designing BTC mining ASIC into everyday appliances. Do you honestly think you're going to see GM shipping trucks that mine bitcoins while you drive at any point, ever? Yes, you've provided a better analogy. But imagine being able to have that huge machinery (or a small one) which does it's work without you having to drive it or do anything? Just plug-n-...work . That's what I'm trying to get through here. I have no idea if we ever see cars with ASICs on board, just like I had no idea if we will ever see a car with tv, computer, hybrid power and etc... Time will show, sorry for using cliches. |
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ААА, ну ладно. А то я подумал сейчас снег пойдет в Африке...
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вот https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92162.0 человек уже занимается наклейками, сделал мне даже бесплатно парочку, т.к. мне для рекламных целей какраз На машину наклейку биткоинт наклеить, да значок/ленточку нацепить, и всех делов.
Да, я как только в Россию прилечу сразу займусь наклейками. Можно будет покупать за бтц через веб сайт. Да, я видел. Скоро можно будет купить наклейки через интернет магазин за бтц. На ибейе тоже думаю разместить лоты. |
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А как их можно продать мало ? Если речь про полноценный ASIC именно по такой цене, то произвести надо десятки тысяч, как минимум. Да, конечно, можно остальные выбросить, но цена готовых продуктов, вроде, не такая уж высокая для этого. А Вы думаете их на заводе Фоксконн заказали? Думаю, это было сделано в маленькой компании, которая специализируется на выпуске пробных небольших экспериментальных партий. Кстати я в своем городе обратился к такому отделу завода (тут есть бывший оборонный завод, где делали чипы! ) , так партия из 1000 шт очень грубо будет стоить 100кУсд, но они щас оборонзаказом завалены, так что не так все печально.У нас делают чипы  Вы из какой страны пишете, если не секрет?  |
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This is the best pool I've tried so far, but it is also the pool that does weird stuff (admittedly little insignificant stuff). Just now I logged into my account and my workers were all reported as being offline even though my hashrate was reported as normal and my home worker was submitting shares no problem. I logged the home worker off and back on and then all my workers reported as being online. As far as I can tell, my workers were never offline, except when I logged off-on with the home worker. To this I say, , but also, meh-  . I observed the same: the hashrate of my workers was reported as 0, while the total of all workers combined seemed correct (25-35 GH). My 24h-income dropped from 15 to 5 BTC. It might be just bad luck, but to me it looks like shares were not accounted correctly. Same here, I'll wait for a few more hours and if estimated income wont start to clime back I'll have to switch  |
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...still no EU servers |
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I asked Sonny about your claim to have an order with them, and he didn't reply on that. I'm forced to believe that your claim is hence false. Otherwise I would buy your order with a premium, even more than 50btc. |
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Some people just don't get it. The fear of loosing profit blinds I guess...or maybe just trolling others.
Were you referencing my statement, or someone elses? Well, if you're agreeing that ASICs will kill the 'casual' miner, then yes I refer to your statement. What BFL does, is giving miners ability to purchase high efficiency products with high range in price. They effectively cover prices from $150 to $30k. They sell to anyone. Now tell me, why is the casual miner will be killed? I say, the casual miner's thickheadness conservatism could kill him, nothing more, nothing less... I suppose I view it like this. The casual miner could have mined coins back in the day just by owning a computer. Then, you could mine if you had a decent enough video card. As soon as that was figured out, it essentially killed the ability for anyone who owns a basic computer to participate unless they had a decent video card. If you had a computer with a decent video card, just turn it on and away you go. When you're done, go back to your gaming or what have you. FPGA's came out but didn't really mess with the ability for those with just a decent video card to participate. But, now with the ASIC what's been done is essentially made it so that anyone who wants to participate has to spend money they normally wouldn't have on an application specific device that has absolutely 0 purpose outside of mining... just to participate. Well, I could say you have to have a banking license, 'just to participate' in banking business. You need a license for frequency 'just to participate' in communication business. And there are no small licenses for starters, i.e. not affordable for an average person. Bitcoin personal banking system lets you 'mine' at very low cost. Right now you're complaining that in order to dig for gold you have to buy a shovel, since all gold on the surface is gone and you can't just take it with your hands, so to speak. However, unlike shovels for gold digging, ASICs can be eventually integrated into other, more casual items, like cars, public bitcoincard processing hubs, even laptops and cellphones. That's if Bitcoin becomes widely accepted.... |
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@bitcoin.me Would you like to discuss what those funds would be spent for? I'd like to donate, but I want to be sure that your plans are consistent with mine so to speak Its pretty specific. The first 5 bitcoins raised will be donated to Gavin's bitcoin faucet to replace the ones that were stolen. After that dividends will go to other free faucets and http://bitcoin100.org/ The only other projects it would go to are ones that promote bitcoin itself. |
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@bitcoin.me Would you like to discuss what those funds would be spent for? I'd like to donate, but I want to be sure that your plans are consistent with mine so to speak |
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Some people just don't get it. The fear of loosing profit blinds I guess...or maybe just trolling others.
Were you referencing my statement, or someone elses? Well, if you're agreeing that ASICs will kill the 'casual' miner, then yes I refer to your statement. What BFL does, is giving miners ability to purchase high efficiency products with high range in price. They effectively cover prices from $150 to $30k. They sell to anyone. Now tell me, why is the casual miner will be killed? I say, the casual miner's thickheadness conservatism could kill him, nothing more, nothing less... |
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By the time we get to colonize the Mars, we should have quantum entanglement effect studied in deep, so all communication, no matter how far will be instantaneous.
Btw, research shows that quantum entanglement is part of photosynthesis process, and the entanglement 'lives' much longer in organic, living things. This might lead to organic communication devices. I bet everyone is just too lazy to learn telepathy, so yeah, we'll have to use devices.
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wo 1500 orders ...
Assuming an average $800 from each, that's $1,200,000. So all the theories about BFL not following through cannot be logically valid (yet), as they haven't made nearly enough sales for that to be in their best interest. I wonder how many of those 1500 order numbers correspond to completed trasnactions, real or otherwise. Maybe really small group of people are sending in ~20 fake orders a day across the planet from different fake ip addresses. Just to make sure the speculation on the forums will maybe hold people from ordering. I to, wonder... My guess is that out of those 2k orders, at least 1500 are real. If you take 100Ghs per order on average, that's around 150Ths pre ordered. Only BFL knows the real figures |
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so this survey is a bit useless An interesting question that I hope this poll will answer is what existing non-BFL FPGA miners will do. Will they sell their device on the secondary market to recoup costs or continue mining because the incremental cost to do so is next-to-nothing? Cost is indeed next to nothing, but the revenue will also be next to nothing... |
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For speculation.
07/09/2012 3028
07/09/2012 3063
I'm skeptical that BFL is getting 30+ orders per day at this point. I wonder what's going on.
probably just people adding in bogus orders to try and throw off the people trying to calculate the hash to be added to the system... Could be. Also could be people ordering 1 Jalapeņo to try out and another half of those orders are people trying to see how many orders have been made. )) |
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BFL-Engineer
i can resolve this issue.
I have singles, that will be ready shortly.
i can add payment for buy mini-rig + update to minirig-ASIC )
He wants SC singles, not FPGA |
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I can take that mini rig, no problem. When is it going to be ready?
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Yep, I guess it could be possible to create it as a charity fund.
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I still hope that someone would be interested . We could also have GLBSE fund investing into implementation of bitcoin into popular online shops. Then we could get our money back from the exchange interest over some time. Revenue wouldn't be high, but it would help to spread bitcoin. |
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