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701  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Can i mine with a NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT? on: June 11, 2012, 07:53:49 AM
In short answer : Yes, but you shouldn't.

Long answer:
It can be used for mining, however the design of all Nvidia chip GPU's don't work well compared to ATI, due to their differences at a hardware level.
At a software level, the mining process mostly uses OpenCL to make use of the "Shaders" (hardware) on the GPU. Nvidia and ATI both have these, but Nvidia took the approach of a few complex ones and ATI too the approach of lots of simple ones. The mining process is relatively simple, thus having lots of simple shaders is very efficient for this task. Nvidia more complex shaders in some areas are less efficient and thus far there has been no way to compensate for that. There is in the region 5-10 less bitcoins generated out of a similar power (watt) consuming processor between nvidia and ati. This makes Nvidia GPU's so inefficient you actually spending money to make these bitcoins rather than turning a profit, which generally speak you will always do on an ATI GPU.
Both GPU markers, choose these different paths quiet a few years ago and ATI kept theirs when they realise they had adopted a secondary market outside of gamers, Nvidia already had the TELSA to bring in the more Scientific use of GPU so were not going to change their design.
702  Other / Off-topic / Re: FPGA Shipping on: June 09, 2012, 08:04:25 PM
I don't think realistically any FPGA makers can work to those deadlines, however enterpoint (yohan on the boards) with their quad spartan 6 boards has done a really good job getting them to market quicker than anyone else.
703  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 08, 2012, 08:34:31 PM
Thanks Yohan, so that overcomes the issues you spoke of a week back ( i think ) that came with going from dual to quad processors and the communication to the "back" two.
704  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 08, 2012, 04:33:12 PM
Good to hear Yohan,

Are those in developers program going to see the code behind the initial bitstream on these first ones, so they can try to improve upon it.
Or is it every developer for himself to try to get something working?

I don't have confirmation yet, so it be nice to take a look at and work on a bitstream I know at least works on these.
705  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: At what point is Solo Mining good? How much Ghash do you need? on: June 06, 2012, 06:54:36 PM
Try it out, try solo mining for a month. See how much you end up with.
Next month do it with your favourite pool.

Let your own experience choose for you.

Sometimes the ease of a pool that can directly convert your bitcoins & namecoins for you direct to payment via paypal is something that appeals to some. Eclipse is one of those pools and has no mandatory fees, just donations. Their is of course other pools out there.
706  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: 7970!!!!!!! on: June 06, 2012, 06:07:12 PM
*lights his flame bait*

pfft no hdmi port. Pointless.

*runs*

707  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 05, 2012, 09:54:20 PM
We might get a bitstream into the board this week based on a re-build of standard stuff but for higher performance one of our own is probably about 4 weeks away. That's also dependent on what else we have to do in the next few weeks on other projects. There may be third party solutions available before our optimised solution is available. So don't expect spectacular bitstream results from us this week. You are going to have to be a bit patient on this. Our target this week is ensuring that the in-built programmer is totally rock solid, getting the production line more optimised, actually shipping boards and trying to get a standard bitstream working to our satisfaction. That's all on top of a large number of UK people being on holiday this week.

Although we have not had a massive amount of time to work with standard bitstreams but we have had some progress and can get a test nonce to run now using our CGminer based test harness. We still have some coms issues to resolve and that is the main area of work this week at the bitstream level.

Are you planning on keeping your bitstream opensource and viewable via something like github?
Something many bitstream developers have done for other spartan 6 based boards.
708  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 04, 2012, 09:18:51 AM
Not sure it be as beneficial as you think.
Just because they are the designers/developers of the hardware and software does not guarantee it would be the fastest possible bitstream.
There could be other developers out there, given the chance whom could make a faster one. That is why Yohan has the developers program.

Now I doubt I'll be one of the developers to make the fastest bitstream, but I at least want to try and learn, so one day I could. Everyone has to start somewhere.
709  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 04, 2012, 08:21:28 AM
Enjoy





Look forward to getting mine now even more.
710  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Here is how to compensate bitstream developers on: June 03, 2012, 08:38:38 AM
It might sound complicated, but he has achieved something very impressive and it is up to him how to monetise if that is how he plans to release it.

Sure there might be simpler or easier ways, but his method ensures he controls it so that no one can go around reselling it.

He is obviously prepared to put a lot of money and investment aside to ensure it stays that way, so I can not fault him.

Simpler methods do not give him that so why bother. Otherwise he might as well just have it open source and ask for donations.
711  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 01, 2012, 02:34:26 PM
I think it is wise not to jump too quickly into ASIC. There is a lot on the horizon that could effect the market for it.
Also ASIC are notoriously expensive and a big investment, for both the end-user and manufacter, can't blame them for not wanting to jump into it without seeing the success of their first product. Which is quickly looking like one of the best FPGA boards on the market at the moment.

Btw Yohan, I'm tempted to jump into learning a HDL to create a bitsteam, or improve one, any recommendation on where to start?
Most of my programming experience is in C, C++, C#, PHP, etc. Is the Spartan-6 partial to a specific HDL?
I like the look of Verilog, seems a bit better imho than VHDL (Both popular choices apparently).
Also with it's appearance being "C-like" I think I'll pick it up quickly.
I've done part of this http://hackaday.com/2011/12/30/so-you-wanna-learn-fpgas/
Must make more time free to do more, but at the moment diablo 3 is so much fun Smiley

It was a good read, however since the article focused on how it's done on a spartan 3, I'm off to find one on the spartan 6 for see how things changed between the two.
712  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 01, 2012, 02:15:34 PM
I'm tempted to jump into learning a HDL to create a bitsteam, or improve one, any recommendation on where to start?
The language choice doesn't really matter. This project is so simple conceptually that the normal reasons for chosing the language are immaterial. This project stresses later stages of the design flow. Your experience with classical sequential programming languages is probably even counterproductive. What really helps is understanding the basics of logic design: combinatorial and sequential logic, flip-flops, etc. as well as any previous experience with declarative or parallel programming languages.

Most of the time you will spend researching various ways of transforming your program to convince the toolchain to accept your idea of how the design should be laid out. If you use Xilinx ISE as your toolchain then be aware of the following:

1) dense LX150 design will require more than 4GB of RAM during the later stages of the workflow, make sure that your machine has at least 8GB and the OS is 64-bit.
2) Xilinx changed the toolchain front-ends (both for Verilog & VHDL) with their "-6" FPGA families. When using tutorials prepared around older Xilinx FPGA families you may experience problems related to the corner-case differences in the HDL implementations.
3) even very small designs on a large chip take comparatively long time to compile. By the time the toolchain reads the floorplan and pinout of the LX150 chip the whole workflow on the LX9 chip will be done. Therefore for the beginners I recommend obtaining $98 Avnet Spartan-6 LX9 kit. If you start with a full LX150 design, especially unrolled one, you will experience annoyingly long workflow iteration times, in the order of hour or two.

FPGA design is like playing tetris, chess and contract bridge all on the same board that is rectangular, not square.

Picking a language was just a way of peaking interest amongst those more experienced than myself Smiley It worked.
Optimisation is something I'm known for in my software, so tweaking code to run a fraction of a ns faster per clock is something I will be petty enough to do to improve the bitstream.

1) Not a problem, I have that.
2) Noted.
3) Something to consider. I am patient, so if it takes a while to compile that doesn't bother me. Not like I don't have other projects. I will however see if I can find a uk seller doing something like that.
713  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 01, 2012, 12:20:38 PM
On languages both VHDL and Verilog have similarities and relationships to C. VHDL probably is now the closest although the more advanced System Verilog is in there too. VHDL tends to have a bigger base in Europe and in the FPGA community. Verilog is strong in the US and in ASIC teams. We work with both but strongly biased to VHDL which is 80-90% of what we do. Things like "types" and "overloading" are used in VHDL and a very familiar concept to a C programmer. C programmers tend to have most difficulty dealing with the parallelism. It's a bit different handling 10000 things happening on a clock edge to 1 thing happeing in most CPUs.

Thanks for your insight into VHDL.
My initial look into VHDL vs Verilog was just a quick over view of example code and it looked quiet simple to pick up, maybe I too quickly judged VHDL.
If over the next few days I feel confident I understand what I'm doing I'll be asking to add a programming cable to my order, since It's my understand it is needed to reprogram these.
I have a background in both game engine development and commercial programming in C based languages. I've done it both as a hobby and for a job.
At least if I learn how to program these, I can have fun with them, rather than just make a bit of money.
You never know, if I get good at it, I can release them for the good of the community.
714  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Mini Rig card = 2 x Altera Arria II EP2AGX260 on: June 01, 2012, 12:08:51 PM
Okay, maybe I see why, most places that sell these chips or the boards they come on have a price tag of $2k+ for these.
They must be getting a really nice deal of them.  Shocked
715  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Mini Rig card = 2 x Altera Arria II EP2AGX260 on: June 01, 2012, 12:03:14 PM
Edit: you changed the picture from your original post. It does look more similar now...

Yup. The one I had linked to was a much smaller Arria II with only 45k LE.

Then you probably have found out their source of chips.
I admit I don't have the same fascination of figuring these stuff out but good detective work.
716  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Mini Rig card = 2 x Altera Arria II EP2AGX260 on: June 01, 2012, 11:41:40 AM
I'd agree with you.
However I'm not totally convinced, as the chip size is a little bit different, the main processor is actually smaller on the altera FPGA board.
I'm not refuting that the techy data probably backs it up of course.

Edit: you changed the picture from your original post. It does look more similar now...
717  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 01, 2012, 08:42:06 AM
I think it is wise not to jump too quickly into ASIC. There is a lot on the horizon that could effect the market for it.
Also ASIC are notoriously expensive and a big investment, for both the end-user and manufacter, can't blame them for not wanting to jump into it without seeing the success of their first product. Which is quickly looking like one of the best FPGA boards on the market at the moment.

Btw Yohan, I'm tempted to jump into learning a HDL to create a bitsteam, or improve one, any recommendation on where to start?
Most of my programming experience is in C, C++, C#, PHP, etc. Is the Spartan-6 partial to a specific HDL?
I like the look of Verilog, seems a bit better imho than VHDL (Both popular choices apparently).
Also with it's appearance being "C-like" I think I'll pick it up quickly.
I've done part of this http://hackaday.com/2011/12/30/so-you-wanna-learn-fpgas/
Must make more time free to do more, but at the moment diablo 3 is so much fun Smiley

Thanks so he prefers VHDL. Interesting, guess I'll keep reading to find out why.
718  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 01, 2012, 08:12:29 AM
I think it is wise not to jump too quickly into ASIC. There is a lot on the horizon that could effect the market for it.
Also ASIC are notoriously expensive and a big investment, for both the end-user and manufacter, can't blame them for not wanting to jump into it without seeing the success of their first product. Which is quickly looking like one of the best FPGA boards on the market at the moment.

Btw Yohan, I'm tempted to jump into learning a HDL to create a bitsteam, or improve one, any recommendation on where to start?
Most of my programming experience is in C, C++, C#, PHP, etc. Is the Spartan-6 partial to a specific HDL?
I like the look of Verilog, seems a bit better imho than VHDL (Both popular choices apparently).
Also with it's appearance being "C-like" I think I'll pick it up quickly.
719  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: May 31, 2012, 03:43:45 PM
How many of these boards can we expect to run on a single molex from an ATX PSU ? I have seasonic 1250 golds, so I hope they can run several of these plus a few 5970's. Could we expect to run like 3 5970's on the PCI E connectors and then 4-5 of these on the molex connectors and then maybe 2 on the extra PCI-E ?

I would like to run rigs with 3 5970's and 6-8 Quad FPGA's for a while, per rig.

Hmmm, 7-8.5 GH/s per rig at maybe 1100-1200 watts would be sweet.

This might get me to 40 GH/s...

A molex connector is actually capable of drawing a lot of wattage, at a max of 187 Watts.
Not recommended to try do that of course.
Assuming that is you are taking from both the 12 and 5 volt, as they can carry upto 11amps each.
So your talking 132 Watts and 66 Watts respectively; going over 110W per strand you'll like encounter heat issues.

In comparison the 6 pin connector is rated at 8amps but will only handling 12volts; it however is rated at 75Watts.
I assume then, the molex connector is only being used for it's 12volt pin(s). Forgive me if this is actually stated.

So with this in mind, I would personally keep it to 1 per molex. If you have a lot of molex connectors on one strand you will have to limit it to two per strand. Just because I don't know for sure this FPGA won't go over 50 watts.
The Seasonic 1250 Gold has 8x 6+2 pins and 8x 4 pins connectors should you should be able to do that configuration without a problem.
Hope you got something good in mind to deal with the heat.
720  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: May 31, 2012, 02:20:51 PM
Looking forward to seeing some epic results from these boards.
So do these 4 spartan 6's actually have the potential to do 250 - 300Mhash/s each?
I understand it's hard so won't get my hopes up.
However it's just a software thing that makes is possible?



Currently EldenTyrell has a custom bitstream which can push these same chips to 250MHash/s approx.

And BitFury has a custom bitstream pushing (liquid cooled I believe) LX150s (same chips as Cairnsmore) to 300MHash/s or more.

But it should be pointed out that neither of those has been "independently verified" by a third party.

So yes the chips have the potential to reach much higher hash rates using a new bitstream (essentially firmware for an FPGA).

But right now, I think Enterpoints goal is to get "icarus-like hashing per chip" (so 190-200mhash) out of them to get them in customers hands, with an easy method of usb updating the boards so that once a new/improved bitstream is available, they can be updated easily.

Thanks for that.
I'm going to start reading up on what it takes to code these bitstreams.
Expect it to be difficult, but I kinda like tweaking things so I could really get into this.
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