Dexter770221, of course those numbers are unrealistic. But it's clear that they have no hard limits and may well increase the first batch by another 100-200TH if they have enough pre-order money in June. This may have significant impact on total network hashrate and miners' profits.
That's why it sounds strange to me when people talk about 130 days breakeven period even for hardware available today (like ASICMINER blades).
No breakeven in two months = probably no breakeven ever.
Sorry for offtopic in this scam/no scam poll thread.

Well, at first it could be 200TH. But then...


Translation: In general, there's almost no limits for sane chip production volumes. One wafer ~4412 chips (how many of them working is still unknown). Maximal production volume which is not hard to order (no extraordinary production planning) is <=2000 wafers per month. Factory will be glad! That's 22 PETAHASH per month. It would be cool to grow to these limits... So there will be no chip crisis. Well, some local crisis may exist, for example we might wait for 2-3 months. We cannot increase number of wafers in an already ordered batch. One of Metabank's goals is to give us a bulk order in June, so we can order right amount of wafers.
---

You see? They can produce practically any number of chips. So if tomorrow a huge investor or a group of them walk into his place and gives cash for 22 petahash/s... we might see them online in September-October.

Well, even if it's not scam, there are still some problems with it.


What I see is that there are multiple investors, and one of them (Metabank) is going to sell part of its chips. The main question which comes into my head is how many chips are they going to produce in total. They are not giving any numbers. It could end up in August like "Here are your devices, we ship them in time and the specs are even better than was announced! BTW, the factory has already produced 100,000 chips and we are licensing it to other factories, most chips going to investors, happy mining!"

You could also start it here with pre-announcement on as many realty-related websites as you can get. Then the proper buyers will find it.

Also, I think the resulting highest bid (60 BTC) is perfectly adequate, given that the market price is about 300. Not bad for an almost blind buy!

This thread is full of scam-related discussion. People argue if this auction is a scam, how could the seller and a buyer scam each other, how many lawyers and papers they need to settle the deal etc. Besides those matters, there could other interesting questions.


bitcoin_bob, is it really a common situation in the business, when people buy a house in less than a week after hearing of it for the first time?
I mean, no matter if one buys a house for himself, or just to sell it at a higher price, doesn't he want to see it first, to see other houses sold in the area, compare prices and so on before making the decision?
How could you expect to sell it at an adequate price, given that you're not posting on a German real estate forum, but in the international (English-speaking) section of Bitcoin forums? I know that many houses are sold on eBay in a similar way but this is not even eBay!
Did you expect that someone from another country just opens his bitcointalk and says 'Hey, great pictures, this house is exactly what I need, I am ready to buy it right now!'? Or that someone makes a trip (this week, hurry up!) to see the house?
I mean, that was your decision, and you are free to sell whatever you own in any way you want, but you must understand that it's a kind of urgent sale and in this case the price will most probably be times less than the market price.

I'll try to.
"Really worth" means returning at least it's price (+ a few percent) in a lifetime. Try to use the mining calculator (http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/) to predict the return. Set electricity cost to 0, and BTC price to 100 (the exact number doesn't matter, as we are calculating profitability in BTC). Break even is 134 days only if you set decline to 1 (no difficulty increase).
Now imagine difficulty doubles every 6 month. That will be 0.25 decrease per year, which makes break even time 187 days.
If it doubles every 4 months (0.125 decline), break even time is 252 days.
For 3 months doubling period it shows ">10000" days. Don't you think this scenario is probable, taking into account that next generation chips are in development?

EDIT. As a shareholder, I highly appreciate "fools" buying devices at this price. But is that really fair? And which impact will this have on Bitcoin community, if the difficulty skyrockets in 3 months and the buyers start to realize that their devices will never break even?

Here I must agree. Generally, the mistake was setting only a week time limit for the auction. It's not normal to buy a house without even seeing it IRL and without having anough time to make a decision. It's OK only if you buy it a few times cheaper than the market price.
However, I think 'scam' is not the right word here. If one places a bet, the only thing he might lose is his time. Nobody is going to transfer BTC before the agreement is signed anyway.

Schulstraße 200, 06556 Ichstedt. It's typed on the left from the map, on the same page where the link points, just one click away from the forums. You may also want to make 2 more clicks (on the map) to find out that the two houses next to it are numbers 199 and 202.

I can't understand what the problem with a fair launch is. Release the (documented) code, launch the testnet, define genesis block as hash of future Bitcoin blocks (say, hash of sequence of hashes of Bitcoin blocks xxxx00 to xxxx10, which will be mined in about a month or two after the code release). Is that that hard? They could even include their reward in the genesis block, which will be still more fair than traditional "instant launch".

You're right, but there are still questions. One has to create a new VM instance (or clean an existing one), configure it (open/close network ports) and point miners to it. I'm trying to imagine those "early adopters" awake 24/7, with running spare clean VM, hitting F5 on the forums watching for another scamcoin announcement  . Of course, it's possible but highly unprobable  .

I just can't get how the developers could write the coin, test it (as they claim), and after all the hard work mess everything up with instant launch (just like any altcoin before). Is that greed, that nobody can overcome? Will we ever see an altcoin with really fair launch, with pre-announcement and public testing in testnet for at least a month? Or maybe there will be a documented coin some day? I hope so.

It's interesting when people argue that anyone could start mining in 2 (1, 5, 15, 30, whatever) minutes.
So they mean they see an announcement, download and build the code (which they haven't even heard of before!), or even worse, the binaries, and launch it on their machines right away?!
Just another facepalm.

Read no thread @ start yelling "Scam!"

It's here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.msg2061306#msg2061306

It took me 10 minutes to find. You haven't even tried to.

I can see now why you're in top ten most-posting users. I guess that's because you don't waste your time to read before posting.

Not sure if you are joking or not. How is that possible?

In fact, the developers awarded themselves about 2000 BTB, right?

Thanks for bidding everyone!

John K.'s judgement (received by PM) is that malin's bid is perfectly valid, as it was posted in the thread (by me).

So the winner is malin at price 1.86

Please pay to 17k52PFsqwh3DjdK4rsBdY7TmyLJkQzDKH.

I have posted in the group's official share transfer thread (http://yourcoins.org/forums/index.php?threads/share-transfer-thread.4/page-3#post-553)

Time is up.

Highest bid in the thread is by fhh (1.85). Highest (and the only one) bid placed by PM is by malin (1.86).

The latter, however does not strictly comply with the rules ("Bids only in this thread").

fhh, please post here, stating whether you think that you are the winner in this situation.

By the way, who is the moderator who can dissolve such situations here?

I have just received a bid by PM @1.86 BTC from user malin.

I am not sure what should I do now. Strictly speaking, the rules (as defined by OP) allow bidding only in this thread. On the other hand, the bidder does not have possibility to post (Newbie status).

Any thoughts?

fhh, as the current highest bidder, don't you mind if I place this bid? Will it be considered violation of the rules from my side?

I will ask some of the section moderators for advice. Stay tuned.

FIXED

I have just received a bet by PM @1.86 BTC from user malin.

I am not sure what should I do now. Strictly speaking, the rules (as defined by OP) allow bidding only in this thread. On the other hand, the bidder does not have possibility to post (Newbie status).

Any thoughts?

fhh, as the current highest bidder, don't you mind if I place this bet? Will it be considered violation of the rules from my side?

I will ask some of the section moderators for advice. Stay tuned.