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501  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Where to go? on: May 27, 2011, 03:27:32 PM
The moon does not fall into the category "nice"

You know, it kinda lacks... air.

air is overrated.

There is a common pattern with countries getting wealthier: They get tighter and tighter with immigration, xenophobia spreads in the culture, taxes and government spending are on the rise, its people stray away from politics and the meaning of liberty is gradually lost on them.

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But I am yet to figure how hard is to change citizenship, and how much they welcome mediterran caucasians (my predominant ethny)
Finland has been going full xenophobic lately.
502  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: When you start working on a block, why others won't do same thing? on: May 27, 2011, 03:15:09 PM
Thanks goatpig. Am I right though that 2-4 above are added after the event when you submit your block? For example client would be static and the timestamp would be invalid if the block wasn't solved for over an hour odd if it was part of the initial work. Not trying to be a knob (to use some Aussie slang), just wondering if my original statement that the difference between what different miners are doing mainly (entirely?) depends on the receiving address is correct or not?

Edit - xenon481 has explained more above that I skipped, I'll check back in when a little more sober  Smiley

Client version is static indeed. I don't expect to see people turn off their miner, updating their bitcoind or custom miner, and starting to mine, repeating this action several times a minute.

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Am I right though that 2-4 above are added after the event when you submit your block

I'm not sure I understand the question properly. If you are saying that transactions and such are added added after the block header is hashed, then you are mistaken.

The header is built first, then hashed. To build the header you need:

1) current version
2) the hash from the previous block (same for every one)
3) the merkle root. It is a 256 bit hash of the transaction list (including the coinbased transaction) that you are adding to the block. As such, you need to pick the transactions you want to integrate before you can attempt to solve the block
4) time stamp. I haven't looked at that part of the code so don't quote me on this but I read somewhere that this one is updated every few seconds or so by bitcoind. If you are using a custom miner, you may very well not update that part quite as often. Although there is no guarantee a given block header has a solution for the outstanding difficulty, and I don't think you can keep on adding extra nonces, so eventually, you'd have to update the timestamp to get a new header, knowing that a 5870 can perform the 2^32 possible nonce's for a given header in about 10 secondes.
5) the current target. Extracted from difficulty, that is static across the network too.
6) the nonce, a random 32bit integer value that you keep incrementing until you reach 2^32 possibilities. You can randomize work with the nonce as well, by feeding your workers different starting nonce.

The coinbase address is more of a way to differentiate you on the network rather than on the mining side. The avalanche effect makes sure that even a single bit of difference in your header will result in completely different hashes. I hope this is the answer you were looking for.
503  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: When you start working on a block, why others won't do same thing? on: May 27, 2011, 01:31:07 PM
I don't understand, why in computing period, there is no compation, won't 2 miners caculate several same has values while they are mining?
It's not just that a given hash value wins, it is that a given hash value wins for the particular block data that you are working on. The block data that you are trying to hash is unique to your miner. No other miner is ever working with the same block data that you are.
Is my understanding as posted above that the point of difference between individual miners is the receiving address is different correct? Or are there a few other things in addition that also alter the hash of the block during the generation phase? It's just I'm a relative n00b myself but thought assuming that's technically correct it's a pretty easy to understand answer to these questions. It explains the random element and why two workers aren't doing exactly the same thing because they're solving blocks for different receiving addresses.

The main differences between block headers going from a miner to the other are:

1) Coinbase transaction address (the address you submit to receive the 50BTC reward IF you hit the jackpot)
2) Included transactions. There are no rules whatsoever regarding this. As a miner you can integrate any transaction that you wish, even fake, corrupt or non standard ones. This is why the network can be attacked by someone with alot of processing power, because he can add in transactions for coins he already spent, as long as he gets to solve a block.
3) Timestamps. The global time accessible on the network isn't precise. You have to add a timestamp to your block header, and this one is a median of time values recovered from neighbor nodes which need to be within 70 minutes of each other to be considered valid.
4) Client version. Some people don't like to update heh.
504  Local / Français / Re: Banque française CIC: bof on: May 27, 2011, 01:13:48 PM
Pour info c'est via un compte entreprise... Cheesy

Sinon côté API, il faut compter ~15€ par virement émit (uh?) et ~2200 euro de setup, puis 550€/mois ... pas cool :p

=O le carroto.
505  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Where to go? on: May 27, 2011, 01:12:51 PM
The moon.
506  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: jump in stale shares on deepbit? on: May 27, 2011, 01:09:25 PM
The network evaluates the hashing speed every 2016 blocks. It then adjusts the difficulty to achieve a target of 6 blocks per hour or 2016 blocks completed over the span of 2 weeks (14 days).

Naturally, if the 2016 blocks of a span are computed faster than in 2 weeks, the next span will see its difficulty rise accordingly, and the other way around if it took over 2 weeks to cover the 2016 blocks. There has been 2 occurrences of difficulty reduction so far IIRC. The last one was early-mid April I think.
507  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why BTC hasn't and wont hit the mainstream: on: May 27, 2011, 01:03:01 PM
I mean does everyone know what every part in their car is doing at any moment?  You still drive right?

Unless you're bitching at the manufacturer cuz the car won't move when you press both pedals at the same time, in which case I call PEBCAC
508  Local / Bases de Bitcoin / Re: Question concernant la répartition de la richesse on: May 27, 2011, 12:50:53 PM
2 choses:

1) La chaine est publique donc meme si il est possible pour une institution banquaire de mélanger tous ses dêpots sous differentes addresses, il est tout aussi possible de savoir le total des fonds dont la banque dispose. La banque peut toujours essayée de passer par un intermédiaire supplementaire ou d'échanger directement ses clefs privées avec une autre institution, mais ces pratiques sont incriminantes et tendent toutes vers la meme conclusion:

   Bien que la reserve fractionnaire est evidemment praticable sur le Bitcoin comme n'importe qu'elle autre monnaie, la transparance du Bitcoin va vraisemblablement forcer les banques à déclarer publiquement la mise en place de reserves fractionnaires sur les dêpots, au risque de heurter leur crédibilité au prés du publique. Surtout, ce que l'on vera, ce seront des institutions financières qui pratiqueront la reserve totale sur tous leurs depots et accomptes.

2) Avec le Bitcoin, on a pas besoin d'une banque pour avoir un "compte". On peut directement recevoir son salaire sur une addresse Bitcoin, on peut payer electroniquement sans l'intermédiare d'une banque et ainsi de suite.
509  Local / Français / Re: Banque française CIC: bof on: May 27, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
eh ben c'est du beau travail le service au professionel...
510  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why BTC hasn't and wont hit the mainstream: on: May 27, 2011, 12:33:02 PM
The only deterrent technological aspect to Bitcoin is the mining/proof of work concept that secures the block chain. Thankfully, you don't have to know a single thing about it to use Bitcoin to your heart's content.
511  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Recent large buys all happen around 00:00 UTC? on: May 27, 2011, 12:31:05 PM
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Personally, I think these two should be classed as the same, and the guy paying with BTC is as bad as the actions of people in the sub prime mortgage crisis.

The guy trying to play the BTC market doesn't have a lender of last resort, the Fed, that also enacts the fractional reserve banking act in his favor. In the sub prime crisis, you had financial institutions speculating with money that wasn't theirs on a bubble they created themselves while the Fed ensured them it was all good and that it would cover for the losses (and it did). That's called moral hazard IIRC. The guy playing on BTC is risking his own money and won't be covered by public funds if he messes up.
512  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can't the deflation be a limit for BTC everyday usage? on: May 27, 2011, 12:23:45 PM
Inflation supports rampant debt and malinvestement, it doesn't have much to do with consumerism, which is mainly a subjective factor derived from quality of life. In that case, you'll witness more consumerism under BTC than fiat.
513  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why BTC hasn't and wont hit the mainstream: on: May 27, 2011, 10:27:16 AM
The Internet was a nerd freindly only system one day too.

Hmm, maybe making it norm friendly is a mistake.

If it involves idiots crying about early adopters and deflation, indeed...
514  Other / Off-topic / Re: Forced farming on: May 26, 2011, 10:08:55 PM
Well I'm glad I never bought any game gold, but I kinda feel bad about persecuting farmers now ='(
515  Other / Off-topic / Re: The Rapture on: May 26, 2011, 09:11:44 PM
And I was looking forward to what currency they use in Hell ='(
516  Economy / Economics / Re: Speculators on: May 26, 2011, 08:37:02 PM
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Soros could wreck the thing because he has enough money to buy out the whole market pretty easy.  He is adept at currency manipulation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros#Currency_speculation
It would benefit him because he wants a one world currency under control of certain groups.  Bitcoin would put the kibosh on that.

How is he going to speculate upon anything if he's the only buyer in the market for the prices he himself pushed upwards. If he drops his BTC, the prices will only go down. Unless his master plan is to throw his money at BTC holders. In which case, I say go for it.

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This is balanced out by the psychological good of decreasing prices.

And your savings valuating just by sitting there.
517  Economy / Economics / Re: Speculators on: May 26, 2011, 07:50:56 PM
Goatpig -
true if I had come in and saw them languishing at a few tenths of a cent for months I may not be as interested.  However I still would have been able to see the potential.

Then you know you're in for a nice ride.

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Bittertea -
true, but basically what I'm saying is I think it will go down before it goes up by the values I listed.  Unless the speculators never cool off.  If I big time investor like George Soros finds out and jumps in it could wreck the whole thing.
I see a growing problem with deflation over the long run with this currency.  Can the Bitcoins continue to be replenished even after the 21 million mark is reached?  If not the currency is doomed to die.

There has been a legion of thread discussing deflation, you should look those up before thinking deflation is outright bad. There is not limit to the divisibility of BTC, so I don't see how a 21M cap would doom the currency.

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TheKoziTwo -
You would have to make the algorithm only count for total numbers of coins in and out of the system.  Maybe the people who programmed Google's web ranking algorithm for detecting web farms would be able to come up with a way where the system would be hard to fool.

Mixing "cosmetic" decision making rule in the core code based on user action is a good recipe for security holes
518  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Deepbit versus BtcMine on: May 26, 2011, 07:42:57 PM
Also, real stats...
519  Economy / Economics / Re: Speculators on: May 26, 2011, 07:39:39 PM
A thing about early adopters:

2 things can attract you to Bitcoins:

1) The outstanding price: You are mainly showing interest in Bitcoin because of the value it managed to cumulate. As such, you wouldn't have bought in when pizza's were being sold for tens of thousands of BTC, so you don't deserve to rant about it nor do you have any right to pretend to that profit.

2) The usefulness: You see Bitcoin as proper store of value and a potential currency that is both economically sound, technologically innovative, and may very well change the face of the world. As such, you understand that early adopters deserve their profit, that the time at which you bought into Bitcoin is not relevant to your ability to use to its full potential, and that even today, you're still an early adopter and you're in for a ride.

520  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: MEGA MASSIVE HASH POWER ADDED TO THE NETWORK?! on: May 26, 2011, 07:30:59 PM
For the hundredth time:  The websites showing network hash rate are based off the time to solve the last X blocks.  The estimate network hash rate is always screwy after a difficulty change.  Wait 24 hours before your head explodes.

Or the machines have become sentient and this increase, due to the first human minds being wired into the network and tasked with hashing, is the only warning we'll get...



Nah we're cool, Vlad's mining array will go Skynet on him before that happens, so we'll have proper warning.

It's funny how this type of thread is getting more and more outrageous as we get through the difficulty spans. Full caps this time around. I'm expecting 1337 speak and a bunch of ~~~~ in 2000 blocks. Anyone taking bets?
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