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301  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Karpeles back to living large in one of the most expensive apartments in Tokyo on: June 20, 2014, 06:48:38 PM
Shouldn't he be rotting in jail right now.
302  Economy / Speculation / Re: USD Swap demand on Bitfinex has never been so high on: June 20, 2014, 02:07:50 PM
if bitfinex was more trusted, we would see the sawp demand fulfilled, not saying bitfinex is not legit or trustworthy, but i'm sure the shady look and feel to the bitcoin exchanges is holding back alot of money.

Good point.  The silk road coins auction will likely be a better indication of real demand, especially by larger, more established players... it depends on how close to spot those coins are sold.
303  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What's your percent chance that Bitcoin will be the "Myspace" of cryptos? on: June 19, 2014, 02:25:47 AM
... I know the Myspace analogy technically isn't that great of one. I'm speaking more in terms of Bitcoin being over-hyped and there potentially being a better successor to come along.

You have to understand the context of "better successor". Bitcoin was not an incremental improvement on prior attempts at digital cash. It was a large breakthrough in computer science (specifically solving global consensus; the "byzantine generals problem"). The problem stood unsolved for decades. The network-effect surrounding the solution to this problem as applied to digital money, as you can see with bitcoin's success, is huge.

Possible incremental improvements over the current implementation details of bitcoin are nowhere near interesting enough to unseat bitcoin's dominance. It's not proper to compare bitcoin to specific companies (FB, Myspace); a far better analogy is core internet protocols.

Bitcoin is the first viable protocol for trustless exchange of value. It's more analogous to things like SMTP or IP. Did improvements to those protocols exist? Of course... But when we're talking about things that are a large break from the past, "good enough" plus first usually wins over incompatible alternative approaches.

It's also worth noting that these protocols evolve and incorporate new ideas. Bitcoin has the same properties; if new ideas come along that are indeed very beneficial, it's likely they'll be incorporated into bitcoin.

For me to get worried about successors, I'd have to see fundamental new solutions to the problem of achieving trustless global consensus over an insecure network. No alt does that. And even if one did come along, I'm not sure quite how it would do it massively better. The fact is, bitcoin's consensus solution works, and that's all it takes to launch the virus of digital money.

For the non-technical person, think of it this way:  The Bitcoin protocol is analogous to the English system of measurement.  Do we have a better system of measurement?  Of course.  The metric system is better because it is based on a factor of 10.  However, the English system is still predominantly used in many countries because it would require an enormous amount of effort for society to change to the metric system.  We would have to change mile marker signs on roads, change the the tools that we use to measure length and quantities, change the game of baseball, basketball, football.  These changes would not be worth undertaking when the English system is "good enough."

Protocols are similar to systems of measurement.  IPv6 is better than IPv4 but we still use IPv4 because in order to change solely to IPv6 we would have to change existing routers, switches, servers, NICs, OS, ect.  IPv6 has been in existence for 15 years but has yet to be used as the primary Internet Protocol. 

Bitcoin is a wealth transfer protocol.  For society to switch to another protocol as the primary currency and payments system, mining operations would have to be changed, exchanges and wallet services would have to switch to the new protocol, hardware wallets such as the trezor would have to be redone, ect.  While bitcoin is still young, the possibility exists that a better currency could take its place, but I believe we are near the point of no return and society will choose not to change existing infrastructure because a coin is slightly better.  Myspace and Facebook are just applications on the internet that users can switch back and forth between willy nilly without any repercussions or changes in infrastructure.


And this:

The "Myspace" / "Facebook" analogy breaks down because of the economic concept of opportunity cost.

There is essentially nothing preventing a person from reaping as much utility as they're going to get out of both Myspace and Facebook simultaneously. Having a Myspace account in no way inhibited you from just going and signing up for Facebook when it became available. In fact it's probably the opposite, the kind of person that even cared about Myspace would also like Facebook.

With Bitcoin versus some unspecified future altcoin, there is a serious barrier. You don't have infinite money.
In addition to this, network effects are stronger for currencies than social networks.

Content on a social network depreciates rapidly. Currency does not (absent limitless issuance of more units).
304  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: June 15, 2014, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: rebuilder link=topic=68655.msg7329479#msg7329479
That's what I'd like clarified - has such a statement been made, and where?

Short answer:  no

The government is not going to give up all that revenue by tainting coins.  Besides, they couldn't do it directly.  They would just have to follow UTXOs, which would be much easier said than done if privacy protocols are used such as coinjoin.  Tainting is out of their control.
305  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin not decentralized anymore? on: June 15, 2014, 08:01:25 PM
Bottom line:  how many people have been the victim of a double spend?  I am not sure a case of a successful double spend exists post march 2013 fork.  BTC is still better than fiat.
306  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin not decentralized anymore? on: June 15, 2014, 02:15:33 PM
The question should be:  is bitcoin decentralized enough?  The fact is when a new block is mined, that miner or pool has  limited control over what transactions get included in that block and subsequent blocks they mine.  Once another miner or pool mines another block, then the previous miner no longer has that limited control.  Also, once a block is mined, it is up to the rest of the network to agree to that broadcast block as the longest chain.  If other nodes on the network find a major problem with a block, then they will likely not accept that as the longest chain.  According to this site:  https://getaddr.bitnodes.io, bitcoin has 7859 nodes in 99 countries.  Nearly all have to agree on the longest chain.  I would call that decentralized enough. 

tldr; Each new block mined is subject to limited attack by the miner who mined it and subsequent blocks that same miner is able to mine.  However, with 7859 nodes in 99 countries, most of whom have to agree on the longest chain, bitcoin is decentralized enough.
307  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Scarcity model bullshit. on: June 12, 2014, 05:03:30 PM
The value of my money goes up or remains constant over time = scarcity is bad... that argument makes no sense to me.
308  Economy / Speculation / Re: We're not going anywhere, until the 51% question is answered on: June 12, 2014, 03:19:15 AM
I think the point you seem to be missing is: *he can't*

Looking beyond the irrational actor argument, for which you haven't provided a counter-argument, the NSA could decide that Bitcoin is a threat.  They could have a team of hackers break into a mining pool that controls >50% of the hash rate and perform the following operation:

1) Transfer all of the pool's coins out to an exchange, sell them in small chunks for USD, and wire to an undisclosed location.
2) Initiate a double-spend attack on the coins that were sold, thus stealing them from the wallets of the general public, and causing Bitcoin to fail in the eyes of the public.

The Bitcoin Foundation thus has 2 options on how to respond.  They can either:
1) Leave the new blockchain in place.  Have an angry population that was stolen from.  Bitcoin loses confidence and dies.
or
2) Revert the blockchain such that the double-spend never took place.  Consumers keep the Bitcoin.  The largest Bitcoin mining pool goes bankrupt.  Miners do not receive their rewards and become disillusioned with Bitcoin.  Hash rate suddenly drops substantially.  Bitcoin becomes open to further >50% attacks due to low hash rate.  NSA repeats the operation until Bitcoin is dead.

Or... the Bitcoin Foundation could be proactive and fix this before we have an attack in the first place.


This doesn't have to be the NSA either.  Any sufficiently advanced government could do this.  China would have a good motive.


I think you, like many, overestimate the ability of the NSA and underestimate the resiliency of the bitcoin network as far as a 51% attack goes.  Miners would leave compromised pools as soon as they detected a problem, probably before the 51% threshold had even been reached.  The attack you describe would be a long shot at best with minimal success, if any.

Like I said before, the NSA would have better luck and inflict much more pain if successful by trying to crack ECDSA, and they probably are trying to crack ECDSA.  The fact that they haven't cracked it yet speaks to its resiliency.
309  Economy / Speculation / Re: We're not going anywhere, until the 51% question is answered on: June 11, 2014, 07:42:06 PM
The March 2013 fork was much scarier and the core devs and miners had the prob fixed in an hour.

If you really want something to worry about, worry about ECDSA being broken.  If someone could crack public addresses within a reasonable amount of time AND without forewarning, then things might get interesting.  Of course this scenario is next to impossible also. Anyone able to crack ECDSA would have to make a decision of whether to steal some bitcoins or set off some nuclear warheads first.
310  Economy / Speculation / Re: We're not going anywhere, until the 51% question is answered on: June 10, 2014, 11:17:20 PM
The 51% question *is* answered for those who care to understand its true ramifications

can you link me or summarize what you're implying?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Attacker_has_a_lot_of_computing_power

Basically, someone with 51% can reverse a few transactions and prevent some people from spending money.  If you see greater than 51%, its best not to send or recieve any bitcoin at the time.  If your coins are buried more than six blocks deep, you should be fine.

Frankly, I would have to see one single entity control more than 51% of the hashrate for a lenghty period of time AND people complaining about their transactions being reversed or not getting included in a block for me to panic.  I realize the possibility for a major problem is always there, but of course you could have just as bad or worse problems at any given time with fiat.
311  Economy / Speculation / Re: Some Bearish Observations. on: June 10, 2014, 05:33:37 PM
Good.  Matt has flipped back bearish.  Time for a rally.
312  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bit-thereum on: June 10, 2014, 03:53:57 AM
is it peer-to-peer?

-bm


It sounds like more of a hybrid solution, but if you have to access external data (which adds elements of centralization anyway) then this is probably the best way to do it.  My question is how are oracles chosen?  Are they chosen dynamically, by a group of peers, or are they chosen in a more centralized way?  How oracles are chosen would probably make a big difference.

Edit:  looks like they can be chosen by users.
313  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-06-05] Video: Digital Currencies MOOC: Q&A Session with Andreas M. Antonop on: June 06, 2014, 07:12:49 AM
For some reason I always understand this stuff much better after listening to Andreas.  For example his explanation of orphan blocks using the Canada/Australia illustration.
314  Economy / Speculation / Re: 10/21 EMA has crossed! Weekly MACD set to cross up! Full Moon in 7 days! on: June 05, 2014, 05:55:20 PM
Dammit Matt.  I was looking forward to riding this trend up.  Now that you have turned bullish, I have to put my worry cap back on.
315  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Looks like my Huntington branch banks have terminated my accounts due to BTC on: June 04, 2014, 07:40:39 PM

you might want to try looking at the fiat side of your business and see why banks hate your business.. your obviously doing something on the fiat side they dont like.

too many people blame bitcoin when infact its their fiat transactions that do not follow wire transfer regulations, let me guess you have:
1) moved more then $1000-$15000 in one lump/day to an entity. (meaning not a bill payment to another business)

2) put it this way, you deposit bank notes (no employment salary gets wired in) just cash deposits, which you then move to another account regularly, which does not belong to you. you show no sign of using the bank account for buying groceries, using at an ATM or even a gas station.

in both cases this would look suspct and has nothing to do with bitcoins

Yes its his bank that should decide what he does with his own money.  I look forward to the day when these institutions are completely bypassed.
316  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-06-01] CD: Cash-Strapped MultiBit Developers to Charge Transaction Fee on: June 02, 2014, 12:53:30 AM
I'm glad to see some of these tools and services start to be monetized.  It still undercuts fees charged in the legacy financial system and funding is necessary for further development and support.  It will produce a stronger system in the long run.
317  Economy / Speculation / Re: A break-out? on: May 30, 2014, 02:18:47 PM
Disagreed on the "led by China" statement. I made my case against that often enough now, so I'm not repeating it here. China is a large factor still though, so if it's just hyperbolic phrasing to say that, I'm okay with it.

The volume surge on Huobi was 2 minutes ahead of Stamp. This isn't up for debate, it is there in black and white (or red and green).

Sorry, but this happens almost 9 times out of 10 and it cannot be ignored.

Arb bots are most likely keeping the exchange rates in line.
318  Economy / Speculation / Re: Why are psychics bearish on bitcoin? on: May 29, 2014, 01:00:46 PM
I guess its time to sell everything now.
319  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 28, 2014, 01:31:07 PM
Ha Ha.  Peter Schiff and other gold bugs came to mind.  They seem to understand the economics of sound money.  Its the keynesians who are totally clueless.
320  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 28, 2014, 01:11:48 PM

it's about understanding Bitcoin as a whole; the technical aspects plus the economic incentives involved.  if he fails to understand either one of those, he fails to understand Bitcoin.

The same can be said for economists who dismiss BTC.  They fail to understand the technology behind it.
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