Does anyone have a good accurate estimate about the expected ROI of batch 1 customers if they deliver in mid december? It's something like -90% right?
It depends on which device you are talking about, how much you paid for it, what you think the next few difficulty adjustments will be and how far out you're projecting the horizon. |
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https://hashfast.com/hello-world/Things are moving quickly! We finally have the first Golden Nonce chip, we began testing it —sending the first current through the 28nm chip to see how it performs. So far, things are looking very good. HashFast co-founder and CTO Simon Barber to give us the play-by-play of the first tests.
We brought up IOVdd first. Up to 1.8V — draws less than the minimum 10mA the bench supply reads.
Next core. Something odd was observed here. Initially, we saw high current draw as we brought the voltage up, reaching 0.7V where it was drawing 2.5A. As the voltage increased a little over 0.7v the current suddenly dropped to 82mA. It stayed there up to Vddcore=0.8v. This odd pattern of high current at low core voltage was repeatable. RST held low. MODE and BYPASS were held high. PLLVdd pulled to Vdd. All other inputs seemed to float low, with a 1Mohm impedance probe.
Next CLK was applied — first 37Hz. 4mA increase in Vdd core current. Took chip out of reset. No change. Next increase clock speed, this increases current. In a couple of steps, we got it to 6Mhz, where the core Vdd was drawing 548mA.
After a few minutes, we turned things off. On retrying, we didn’t find the same odd, high current during ramp of core Vdd. Perhaps this was due to CLK floating then, and not since?
Calling it a night, having trouble getting the serial port levels shifted correctly. Will continue in the morning.
— Simon
Over the next few days, the HashFast engineering team will be working intensely as they subject the GN to more tests. As we’re able to get them to break and give us an update, we’ll let you know how it’s going.
Simon will also be tweeting on the HashFast account — if you’re interested in seeing the results as the they come, follow us @HashFast on Twitter.
Hooray! There is light at the end of the tunnel. All you concern trolls, disgruntled obsessives, and misc haters can now stop worrying. PCBs are fast and easy to make. They have these newfangled things called "robots" that can populate a PCB with components in seconds. I feel bad for HF because icebreaker does more harm than good their reputation and they can't really silence him, because he's "trying to help". |
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@HashFast - 10:58PM ET - 4 Dec 13
GN chip bringup - having trouble getting readings from the on die temperature sensor. Debugging the firmware/protocol now.
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I'm not doing the tweets. According to Amy, Simon is posting them. I've let them know they are a very popular improvement over forum updates and blog posts.
Wait a second - they are a popular improvement over forum updates and blog posts because you are not doing any forum updates or blog posts. The way you communicate this information is not as important as the fact that you are actually giving us information or engaging us in a discussion. |
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You referring to me? I never claimed to be any expert. Another internet tough guy hurling insults. Again its not my problem what they did with my btc. I'm not an investor, their bills are not my problem nor should I be involved with what currency they are paid in. Its documented they said they would refund in btc, i have quoted and referenced the post. Call me stupid for believing the founder of the company, fine. But, what kind of guy does that make you for kicking a guy when he's down?
I didn't delete my post and I wasn't talking about you.. |
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I will always remember when due to the euro going lower and a full refund policy i found myself with a few % more after asking for a refund (that was not btc related).
Anyway, what are we discussing? They promised BTC refunds, there is not a lot to argue. They probably won't issue them, they won't have to (i mean, they won't issue the USD refunds they will have to issue after non issuing BTC refunds in the case they don't ship by the end of this month).
I guess we're arguing with yet another person who thinks they are pretend-law-expert. I don't even know why Hashfast said they would accept money in BTC. All their bills are in USD. It was just a marketing ploy (much like MPP) and I suppose if you couldn't see through that, people need someone to blame (since blaming yourself for a bad gamble seems to be too much to handle). |
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How about you stay on topic, instead of going of on tangents and hypotheticals?
Hashfast has promised to refund its customers in the currency it was paid in. When said currency became 10x as valuable, they reneged on that promise. Simple.
Sure thing, if you can handle the discussion without converting to analogy, let's try it. You said that Hashfast wouldn't have to convert to fiat to pay their manufacturing expenses citing some kind of consumer protection law. Cite the law. |
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Funding R&D and manufacture with pre-order money runs afoul of a slew of consumer laws. Hashfast is legit & wouldn't do that.
Show me the consumer law that says this. We can sue kickstarter.com for creating a business model completely based on this illegal behavior. Kickstarter participants are investors, not consumers. They're funding an enterprise, not pre-ordering goods. Please familiarize yourself with the topic that you are so eager to rage on. You're raging, I'm not. I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous you sound, but you're a true believer, so it's might be impossible. How about companies that accept payment in multiple currencies. When they do a currency exchange and the value wildly fluctuates - then what? |
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Funding R&D and manufacture with pre-order money runs afoul of a slew of consumer laws. Hashfast is legit & wouldn't do that.
Show me the consumer law that says this. We can sue kickstarter.com for creating a business model completely based on this illegal behavior. |
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Can you just stop spamming the thread? Open your thread and put it on your signature, thanks.
Seriously, take the fucking "I want to buy your miner" conversation to the appropriate forum. I don't understand why a community of early technology adopters has so many people that fail at proper forum usage. |
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@HashFast - 4 Dec 13 - 2:32PM ET
GN chip bringup - Power consumption: 0.14ua/MHz at 0.77volts at low speeds. That's 0.56W/GH/s. More tests happening now.
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@HashFast - 3 Dec 13 - 6:46PM ET
GN chip bringup - chip is hashing and first nonce found!!! PROOF OF WORK RESULT: true (yay!!!)
@HashFast - 3 Dec 13 - 6:48PM ET
GN chip bringup - next steps, verify PLL operation, temperature sensor, and then start raising the clock speed.
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I'm speechless that they have actual good, positive updates and they STILL do not post here or their website. They must be seriously understaffed.
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Mmm, I don't understand. The Genesis Block says this is not going to be profitable, but people keep ordering the Cube...am I missing something?
The last difficulty adjustments were 16, 19, 30, 46, 41, 27, 32, 29, 32, 29, 35, 19, 19, 22, 10, 23, 28, 8, 11, 12, 16, 14, 38, 10. Show me how you put that in the genesis block and I'll accept its profitability calculations. |
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Alright iCE... seeing as how you are happy with your 12 month payback. How about we test your sincerity. I will offer you 2 batch 1 BabyJets for 10 btc less than I paid. I can prove payment of over 89btc https://blockchain.info/tx/b97e4a16ebf5e7da03a32e0c31fe04de69c29ddde689f2c03f0ccb5c67ae7075 and am willing to sell this pre-order to you for the bargain basement deal of the century of only 79btc. I'm basically giving you $12,000 USD in the next 12 months according to your math. Interested? I might be interested, what's your position in the order queue? Oh wait, you paid for them with $120 August Bitcoins, not $1200 Nov Bitcoins. How silly of you to expect August Bitcoins in November, three months after you voluntarily sent them to Bitpay for conversion to fiat.  I don't get your objection. He is offering you 79 BTC for 2 batch 1 BabyJets. If you think BabyJets will produce 45 BTC in a year and that makes you happy, it shouldn't matter what month the bitcoins were purchased. You're making 18.6BTC per unit in year 1 and everything else is gravy. |
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I also asked John about the delivery times of the next batches and upgrade chips and he has told me that they are going be shipped in order of payment. He told me that at full production they are limited by 700 boards per day Lets hope boards come up next week and we could see units shipping soon. If they produce 700 units a day they will clear the shipping queue really fast We all know that they are really late and what they have been doing about the shipping dates and Tos is not something we will forget so easy. I would say it's pretty dificult to reach the 700 units in a day production in a short period of time, but lets hope Ciara do its job. There is nothing more we could do also  Cautiously optimistic.. |
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You'd be wise not to confuse the rabid purchase of miners in a market with very little supply and high demand with running a business successfully.
The BTC/ASIC phenomena will settle soon enough and unless your plan was for AMT to only last a few months, you will find that being an asshole to your existing and/or potential customers will bite you in the ass.
I think what we're doing is the furthest thing from "being an asshole" or confusing this with running a business successfully. We are not running this successfully at the moment at all, we're basically just trying even run it. And other manufacture out there that claims anything but the same, is full of it. And this business of BTC miner manufacturing can only be comparable to something like "riding a psychotic horse into a burning stable". We've designed our miners to have the ability to work with several different types of chips. Slotting a board on 3.5 modified heatsink will not only allow us to keep shipping but to partner with most of the real chip manufacturers in the process. As long as our boards stay the same size, and we master ways to cool these things which is another challenge of the week (Avalon), we're fine. The LTV of our customers will surpass those of any other manufacturer. Because if your a miner and the difficulty just sky rocketed, do you want to wait for a another full miner on pre-order, or to order an AMT 220ghs drive that you can use to swap out your 45ghs bitfury drive. Coincraft is a great chip, I promise you that. And bitfury is still a great chip and will always be the best chip design during the blossoming of the BTC mining industry. But since the value of BTC skyrocketed they have chosen halt sales for the moment. Bitfury was designed by a Ukrainian man so intellectually and so smart that even 1 year later the chip itself yields a higher hashing power with the right board design. No one ever seems to notice or recognize that fact, and their distributors Dave and Niko are honest and good men as well. But in a world of chaos and greed, I don't blame them for being out of stock, but it does present an issue and a possible problem which we foresaw when designing our miners. So that effects our business obviously, but since our board/hotslot model is a versatile one, we can swap these out with Avalon boards and change our products to the AMT100 and AMT 150, and continue to ship. A problem we have currently is that Avalon heats up like crazy, so now we have to figure out a smart cooling method to the hot slot model, which we will, and needed to anyway, because moving 320W of heat per board (Coincraft) out of an aluminum case isn't an easy one. So whats the solution to that - the most simplest - slid-able removable side panels for the moment. We've designed this business and these miners with the idea of what the mining customers goes through, the problems of greed in this industry from all levels, and the problems that that the customer faces, and basically the only thought process anyone could and should have needs to start with " Ok, So what's the worst that can happen " and then make the business model backwards. So do we want to flaunt these miners, create videos and gain the attention of some of the other competitors out there who obviously invest their time and money in trolling and DDOS attacking sites(Our site is undergoing one right now by the way) and putting down other companies over the phone trying to sell their clients. (A few of our larger clients came from one company who spent 20 minutes on the phone just bashing everyone else ). Or do we want to sell and ship quietly to our customers which are also, on the level. But between DDOS attacks, an attempted break in, merchant processors/banks screwing things to hell, chip suppliers limiting availability and the worst of all it, trolls. Most men would have quit by now. But we are not most men - and if we come off like an asshole, we don't mean to and apologize in advanced. Okay, I feel bad, you sound like you're working hard. And if you are, it's even more tragic that you sound like you're running a scam, which if you just take a step back and objectively read this thread, is honestly what it sounds like. That being said, don't blame the bitcoin community or these forums as some kind of unique environment where everything is horrific. Running any small business is like what you describe. People are trying to swindle you, from suppliers to customers. I've seen it in the restaurant biz, I've seen it in B2B. You're not cursed, in fact, you have the unique opportunity to have a large amount of customers concentrated in one place (here) and that should be an advantage to you, not something to hide from. Put on your game face, show people how excited you are about it and people will drink the kool-aid if you sound positive and like a believer. Don't be pressured to promise anything because of b.s. promises other companies are making. Speaking to customers and making them believe in you and your product is a skill and it takes hard work to get there. It means not getting pissed off (in public) when someone talks shit about you or the little company you are trying to build, it means taking feedback from people with a smile on your face, even though you are boiling with rage inside, it means telling everyone to "calm down, be patient, we're hard at work!" when you mean "fuck off, we're working on it you impatient bastards". It means have a real plan and a schedule for updates even though it seems like your time is better spent on actually doing the work. Just to use a Thanksgiving analogy, when you're cooking a turkey you are tempted to open the oven and check on the turkey a bunch of times, which slows down/ruins the cooking. But, you can solve that problem with a digital meat thermometer - even though the process hasn't changed, the information, whatever it is, is the difference between watching the game and enjoying your family and standing around in the kitchen, getting short with anyone who wants to know when we will be eating. |
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..... (the highest ever was +46%)
300% Argh, I was too lazy to go back before August 2011. Thanks for the correction! +400% is the max at once I read somewhere a while ago. EDIT: A single retarget never changes the target by more than a factor of 4 either way to prevent large changes in difficulty.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/TargetFactor of 4 = +300% 100% multiplied by 4 = 400% Yes, the plus sign has meaning. Starting with $10 $10 = +0% $20 = +100% $30 = +200% $40 = +300% |
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Other asics company already moved to 20 nm.
By the time you found enough fools to invest, 65 nm is already outdated
I think you are mistaken, no ASIC can be at 28nm, the semiconductor titans like Intel and Samsung are not even there for real production yet. |
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