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321  Economy / Speculation / Re: hold or dump? on: January 04, 2015, 07:30:55 AM
Hold or dump depends on your financial situation and the % of your net worth you have invested in cryptocurrencies.
You should never base your trading action on what the price is doing.
322  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 30, 2014, 07:38:21 AM
The amount of CPU power necessary to generate a PoS block is nominal at most. A single very old computer would be able to handle creating every single block of a PoS coin.

If it does not cost anything to produce a PoS coin then it does not cost anything to attack the network. As a result any PoS coin can be attacked for free

Blah blah blah, do it!

In the end the truth is bitcoin is consuming 10% of its market cap each year (500 million $) to mantain a decentralized (not so decentralized lately) ledger.
10% a year today,  6 % in 2016, 5% in 2017, 3% in 2019, and 0.5% in 2026.

you can just buy all the NXT you can for the current extra cheap price, sit on them and enjoy all the benefits of a natural steady deflation which increases your purchasing power. Cool
That something I like about Nxt. Bitcoin is Disinflationary, while nxt has no inflation besides the ICO. This may be its undoing though because distribution wasn't the best initially. The nxt currency isn't deflationary in of itself .... are there any true deflationary currencies in existence? (I am not talking about deflationary in reference to minting vs adoption)

The 10% will not decrease, as shown by the last halving. If it decreased to 0.5% in 2026, then it will only cost 0.5% to attack the Bitcoin network, which is laughable as security.

I think you can actually try an attack spending 2 or 3% of the bitcoin market cap.  
When inflation drop to 0.5%, 0.1% of the bitcoin market cap will do the job, maybe even less then that if the mining has centralized further.
By then, not the government, not a terrorist organization, not an asteroid but speculation will have destroyed it.
And for those who think transaction fees will be enough to pay for the security i want to ask them how useful is bitcoin if you must spend 2 or 3 $ to do a transaction.
The bell shaped curve of yearly transaction revenues from fees, has a point of maximum which is not proportional to the market cap of the coin, if you raise fee beyond that point revenues will drop and the same will happen if you set minimum fee too low, i don't know how much total revenues from fees could be at best, but i'm sure it will not be enough and it is a very stupid idea imposing 100% of the costs on those who make transactions and will porbably result in a disaster.
Cost of security in a POW must be proportional to market cap, and must be paid by stakeholders via inflation like it's happening today.
That's why bitcoin economic model is actually working, neverending inflation is necessary for POW to continue working properly.
323  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 29, 2014, 09:06:39 PM
Another 15 pages of POW vs POS debate, such WOW!  Grin

In the end the truth is bitcoin is consuming 10% of its market cap each year (500 million $) to mantain a decentralized (not so decentralized lately) ledger.
That means if you have 100k $ of wealth in bitcoin you need to pray that the USA government don't change its mind about bitcoin while you work hard to earn at least 10k $ per year if you do not want to lose purchasing power. Undecided
Or...
you can just buy all the NXT you can for the current extra cheap price, sit on them and enjoy all the benefits of a natural steady deflation which increases your purchasing power. Cool


324  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 27, 2014, 09:59:51 AM
This is wrong i think.
Imagine you have two coins only.
Coin A is POW, it is 10 years old, it has 100 billion market cap, it has 5% inflation, it costs 1 billion to attack it and every merchant on earth accepts it.
Coin B is POS, it is 5 years old, it has 1 billion market cap, it has 0% inflation, it costs 1 billion to attack it and no merchant accepts it.
You can switch from one coin to the other one for free or very very cheaply.
In this scenario every rational investor would chose to have most of his savings in coin B and he would switch to coin A only when he needs to spend.
As time goes by almost everyone moves from coin A to coin B, coin B market cap grows to 1 billion, coin A is abandoned and merchants forget about coin A and start to accept coin B only.
Network effect might not be enough to save bitcoin.
Bitcoin will have 6 % inflation in 2016, 5% inflation in 2017, 3% inflation in 2019, and 0.5% inflation in 2026

Well there certainly is a race a foot and we will see if other alts can play catchup when Bitcoin is slowly switching from mining hashes to secure the network to mining transactions to secure the network.

You clearly didn't understand what i was trying to say.
POW is not stable with low or 0% inflation and the entire cost of network security pushed on those who make transactions, it simply cannot work properly.
For a POW coin to be stable and reliable cost to attack must be proportional to market cap and it must be paid by stakeholders via a constant inflation.

325  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 27, 2014, 09:40:49 AM
No, I believe that PoW is equal to PoS if we measure all pros and cons. PoW or PoS is just a matter of trade-offs.

Unfortunately(from a perspective of curiosity), since Bitcoin has such a large lead and a much better network effect we are unlikely to see an fair battle between the two as history has shown that technologies must have a significant competitive
advantage to be able topple the established incumbent with such a sizable lead.

I am not suggesting PoS is slightly superior either but merely the fact that any alt has to be shown to be significantly superior to Bitcoin in order to catchup.


This is wrong i think.
Imagine you have two coins only.
Coin A is POW, it is 10 years old, it has 100 billion market cap, it has 5% inflation, it costs 1 billion to attack it and every merchant on earth accepts it.
Coin B is POS, it is 5 years old, it has 1 billion market cap, it has 0% inflation, it costs 1 billion to attack it and no merchant accepts it.
You can switch from one coin to the other one for free or very very cheaply.
In this scenario every rational investor would chose to have most of his savings in coin B and he would switch to coin A only when he needs to spend.
As time goes by almost everyone moves from coin A to coin B, coin B market cap grows to 100 billion, coin A is slowly abandoned, merchants forget about it and start to accept coin B only.
This is why i thin the coin that will win the crypto race is the coin which provides the strongest network at the lowest cost.
Network effect might not be enough to save bitcoin.
326  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 27, 2014, 08:45:58 AM
Don't forget bitcoin gets a lot weaker at every halving.
Good luck having your wealth in a POW coin with inflation below 2%.

Define "weaker" in your suggested context and provide historical evidence to support this claim.

A = resources you have to waste to attack the coin
B = market cap of the coin
k = constant

Y = Probability the coin is succesfully attacked in the real world = k * (B/A)

Since A in a POW coin is proportional to inflation rate you can conclude that as inflation goes down the probability of an attack increases.
327  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 27, 2014, 08:32:50 AM
You are moving goalposts. Inflation is not problematic because it is mathematically fixed at a known predictable rate. Price is baked in.

Number of Bitcoins today = 13'646'425
Number of Bitcoin 365 days ago = 12'177'500
Inflation = (13'646'425 - 12'177'500) / 13'646'425 = 10.76%

Price of 1 BTC today = 324 USD
Price of 1 BTC 365 days ago = 734 USD

Aye, the price is indeed baked in.
Right and PoS always goes up in price, right? Notice that the average yearly price goes up substantially every year.

The value of a coin that is inflating at 10% is pushed down 10% per year against a coin who has 0% inflation, this is done by speculators.
In reality some years the inflationary coin will go down 30% some other years it might gain 10%, but on average the 10% yearly inflated coin will always go down 10% per year against a coin who has no inflation.
That's why bitcoin block rewards halve every four years.
Don't forget bitcoin gets a lot weaker at every halving.
Good luck having your wealth in a POW coin with inflation below 2%.
328  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 27, 2014, 08:26:25 AM
You are moving goalposts. Inflation is not problematic because it is mathematically fixed at a known predictable rate. Price is baked in.

Number of Bitcoins today = 13'646'425
Number of Bitcoin 365 days ago = 12'177'500
Inflation = (13'646'425 - 12'177'500) / 13'646'425 = 10.76%

Price of 1 BTC today = 324 USD
Price of 1 BTC 365 days ago = 734 USD

Aye, the price is indeed baked in.
Right and PoS always goes up in price, right? Notice that the average yearly price goes up substantially every year.

The value of a coin that is inflating at 10% is pushed down 10% per year against a coin who has 0% inflation, this is done by speculators.
In reality some years the inflationary coin will go down 30% some other years it might gain 10%, but on average the 10% yearly inflated coin will always go down 10% per year against a coin who has no inflation.
In the short term everything can happen but in the long term you might find yourself working hard just to keep up with inflation if all your holdings are in a 10% inflationary coin.
And please don't tell me bitcoin inflation is temporary and it will go to 0, no POW will ever work with 0% inflation.
329  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 27, 2014, 08:21:36 AM
So you really think majority of hash power having full control of the protocol is better then stake holders leading the coin development? Are you serious?

To control the majority of hash power, you must put real resources and might still fail due to slow in movement, it is much more difficult than controlling a few stake holders. Imagine that once bitcoin is becoming POS, then top 10 stake holders will immediately enter the watch list of CIA

Yes i agree with you, it is ACTUALLY more difficult to control majority of bitcoin hash power then a few major stake holders of a 1 year old POS coin.
However it will not always stay the same, as POW mining reward decreases and POS coins get more distributed the former becomes weaker and the latter becomes stronger.
If you try to attack two coins with the same market cap, one is POS and the other one is POW, you will probably end up wasting a lot more resources attacking the POS.
POW ages like milk, POS ages like wine.
330  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 27, 2014, 07:57:30 AM
POS=no production cost=no value

If I can produce a coin without any cost, why should I pay any thing valuable to exchange it??? I will just go ahead to mine it

Fiat money can do this because there is a law to force its circulation, and the cost to make that law can be a war, which costs millions of times more energy than POW mining

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=848881.0

Point 7

And POS coin is against the nature of decentralized system: It is fixed by a small group of stake holders while the others can never change the system even if the time comes. The POW coins instead will change when the majority of hash power decided that a change is necessary

So you really think majority of hash power having full control of the protocol is better then stake holders leading the coin development? Are you serious?
331  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 26, 2014, 07:04:47 PM
POS=no production cost=no value

If I can produce a coin without any cost, why should I pay any thing valuable to exchange it??? I will just go ahead to mine it

Fiat money can do this because there is a law to force its circulation, and the cost to make that law can be a war, which costs millions of times more energy than POW mining

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=848881.0

Point 7

332  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 26, 2014, 06:04:45 PM
Bitcoin POS version would turn badly very soon.
99.9 % of bitcoiners are POW fanatics, as soon as you gift them a POS coin they would rush to sell it at any price the market is paying for it.
This would probably crash the market cap of the bitcoin POS to 2 or 300k $, as a consequence it will become very centralized in the hands of a few believers, better stick to the oldest POS coins, they are better distributed then any bitcoin POS fork will ever be.
333  Local / Обменники / продaю koды BTC-E за 2,000,000 руб on: December 18, 2014, 09:43:21 AM
продaю koды  BTC-E за  2,000,000 руб возможная оплата через банковский перевод пишите мне ваши предложения.
вожмозноe разделение на меншее кол во не менше 100,000
334  Local / Mercato valute / Re: [VENDO] BITSTAMP +7% COMPRO BTC-e -7% on: December 15, 2014, 03:54:40 PM
ho sempre comprato da crypto, non sono nuovo del "mondo bitcoin", ho fatto affari con lui per un anno, l'ultima volta ho acquistato in ottobre, e mi aveva segnalato che aveva skype hackerato e non funzionante. Detto ciò devo anche dire che l'ultima volta che ho acquistato da lui mi aveva chiesto un prezzo molto superiore alla media con cui eravamo d'accordo e dopo aver raggiunto un compromesso ho dovuto aspettare 4 ore per l'invio dei bitcoin. Ho anche visto che non si collega da due mesi... Ma ripeto da crypto ho acquistato molti bitcoin, è da un anno che compro da lui e non ho mai avuto problemi, anzi mi voleva dare il numero di cellulare se in caso volevo contattarlo personalmente. spero di esserti stato d'aiuto.

No non mi sei stato d' aiuto, io ho perso 3 btc per colpa sua e dopo aver promesso di restituirmeli, è sparito e non si è fatto più vedere.
Per me è abbastanza per dire che è uno scammer ed è importante che altri utenti lo sappiano, beato te che non hai mai avuto problemi.
335  Local / Mercato valute / Re: [VENDO] BITSTAMP +7% COMPRO BTC-e -7% on: December 08, 2014, 04:20:41 PM
Scammer.
Dovevo vendergli 4 btc qualche mese fa, dopo che ho inviato per primo si è inventato la storia di un hacker che gli ha rubato l'account di skype proprio il giorno in cui ci eravamo messi d' accordo per scambiare.
Dopo essersi impegnato a rimborsarmi, è sparito dalla circolazione oramai da più di un mese.

Evitate di fare affari con lui.
336  Economy / Exchanges / Re: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading on: November 26, 2014, 12:24:22 PM
I'm trying to use the API call for cancelling multiple orders at once but it doesn't work.


If i post a request with the following JSONpayload:

{"request":"/v1/order/cancel/multi","nonce":"311508580","order_ids":[{"order_id":"140046162"},{"order_id":"140046163"},{"order_id":"140046164"}]}


I receive the response:

{'result':'Orders cancelled'}


But the orders are not really cancelled, they remain opened.
What am i doing wrong?

EDIT:
Thx to Raphael i solved this, the correct payload should be:
{"request":"/v1/order/cancel/multi","nonce":"311508580","order_ids":[140046162,140046163,140046164]}
337  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi will donate all his coins to the world's poorest people in the future. on: November 26, 2014, 09:01:30 AM
If he is a man,he will do it like me!
this is a very valuable business!


That would crash the price of bitcoin so hard...
338  Local / Mercato valute / Re: █ 【VENDO】 █ Bitcoin a 310,67 €. Pagamento bonifico o contanti zona MACERATA on: November 23, 2014, 04:10:19 PM
Prezzo aggiornato a Bitstamp + 7%!
339  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The greener side : Bitcoin being used to heat buildings on: November 15, 2014, 11:56:14 AM
Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that because of the economics. If money is saved by using the waste heat then the savings will be spent on more mining.

Exactly.
340  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bear market to continue another 12 months on: November 09, 2014, 04:50:13 PM
I will move 100% to NXT
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