excellent you can now SHORT bitcoins  Do it. |
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In your old age what will you tell your grandkids about Bitcoin? You're welcome. |
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Never seen this before. What is this?
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(5) If, in the US, I'm merely subject to capital gains, my tax rate is significantly reduced by holding my bitcoins for more than a year.
I know bit offtopic but I mined coins instead of buying any, would waiting 1 year still qualify, or I had to buy the coins instead ? Not sure. Hopefully I know more in the next few weeks. In addition to having somebody understand tax obligations, and ways to legally reduce them, another reason I've hired an attorney is to have somebody familiar with the relevant legal processes who can represent me in case my bank were to threaten or close my bank account as a result of bitcoin related transactions. At a certain point, you should hire your own attorney/cpa/both, because you're only going to go so far getting information from the internet. |
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This has been the most difficult of all the crashes to watch without moving significant sums of bitcoin to the exchanges (because opportunity seemed so obvious), but I remain resolved that the risk of allowing 3rd parties control over my bitcoins is too great. The best I was able to do was have some fiat on a couple of exchanges with buy orders staggered all the way down to $250, many of which, as you can imagine, were hit, and the bitcoin have subsequently been removed from the exchanges.
I'm with you on this. Here, take more money then I've ever had in my life and please don't make it disappear ok? ok?ok?ok?ok?ok?ok?Yep. It's really an absurd risk, on top of the risk of merely being involved in bitcoin in the first place. You can trade only with a slice. Ofc risk is higher, but so is possible gain also. Without risk, there's no win. Gox and Stamp has not directly stolen anyones money (if goxxing doesn't count). The value I'd be willing to risk trading around on an exchange probably isn't worth the possible gain, and exposes me to, at least, losses from making bad guesses about the short term market, but potential problems with the exchange itself, or worse. I took a pretty substantial risk in early 2011 that has paid off in an incredible way. I think it'd be foolish to compound the risk that still exists merely holding bitcoin at all by allowing a 3rd party control over even a portion of my bitcoins. Just isn't worth it. As to Gox having not directly stolen anyone's money, that's maybe only technically true in a very narrow sense. They are, as a matter of fact, sitting on over 150BTCs of mine that were transferred via a MTGOX code to bitcoinica's MtGox account in early 2012. Those bitcoins were never actually used in any positions on bitcoinica. MtGox, so far, has refused to cooperate in helping to get those bitcoins back to me...and those are just the ones that belong to me. They're sitting on many tens of thousands of bitcoinica bitcoins. They may not have technically stolen them, but it sure feels like it. |
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US citizens
This is bad - feeling sorry for you. Why not leaving while you can? because some of us arent allowed to leave or cant afford it. If you cant afford to leave a sinking ship you can afford to get dragged down with it. As much as I'd love to move to some place friendlier to financial innovation that has more sensible tax laws, it's just not as simple as 1,2,3 pick up and move. I've got a family here and extended family throughout the US and locally. Also, my entire social life is here, and my job is here. So, as much as I dislike the way things are going here, I just isn't clear that the social cost is overcome by the dislike I have for how things are going here and whatever financial advantages I might gain somewhere else. |
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Here are some of the main practical reasons I didn't sell:
(1) I don't trust the exchanges, or any 3rd party, with my bitcoins.
(2) There are possible (negative) tax consequences to moving in and out of bitcoin on exchanges
(3) There are additional, and as yet unresolved, tax consequences to withdrawing significant sums of bitcoin, especially to US bank accounts.
(4) There are yet potentially more (negative) tax consequences to using non-local exchanges as a US citizen.
(5) If, in the US, I'm merely subject to capital gains, my tax rate is significantly reduced by holding my bitcoins for more than a year.
I've engaged an attorney and a CPA to work the details out for me, because it's actually quite complicated. US citizens goofing around on foreign exchanges with sums of money the IRS would care about are playing a dangerous game, IMO.
Finally, I'd simply prefer to keep my bitcoin wealth in bitcoin and spend bitcoin for the things I want/need. I've been in the market for a new vehicle or two, and now that there are a couple of dealerships in the US that sell cars for bitcoin, it's preferable to take care of that transaction without liquidating on my end. The tax consequences are simpler to work out (at least right now), and greatly reduced on my end by simply spending bitcoin.
I am very interested in all of this. Anyway you could make a thread when the attorney and CPA get back to you? I wasn't even aware of (4). Is that an additional percentage? I don't really know how it all works, which is why I've hired somebody to figure it out. What I do know, so far, is capital gains is the ideal scenario, but there are still a lot of open questions. If you're in the US, and you're trading on foreign exchanges and withdrawing USD (especially atypical/large sums), and you're not personally equipped to work out the tax consequences of what you're doing, then you're playing a dangerous game that could come back to bite you later. I'm not saying don't use foreign exchanges. I'm simply saying that if you think you can simply buy bitcoins on exchanges, and magically come to possess the results of appreciation and use it without any accounting, you are ignorant in a way that could cause you some pretty serious problems in the future. |
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US citizens
This is bad - feeling sorry for you. Why not leaving while you can? Bitcoin or the US? |
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This has been the most difficult of all the crashes to watch without moving significant sums of bitcoin to the exchanges (because opportunity seemed so obvious), but I remain resolved that the risk of allowing 3rd parties control over my bitcoins is too great. The best I was able to do was have some fiat on a couple of exchanges with buy orders staggered all the way down to $250, many of which, as you can imagine, were hit, and the bitcoin have subsequently been removed from the exchanges.
I'm with you on this. Here, take more money then I've ever had in my life and please don't make it disappear ok? ok?ok?ok?ok?ok?ok?Yep. It's really an absurd risk, on top of the risk of merely being involved in bitcoin in the first place. |
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Here are some of the main practical reasons I didn't sell:
(1) I don't trust the exchanges, or any 3rd party, with my bitcoins.
(2) There are possible (negative) tax consequences to moving in and out of bitcoin on exchanges
(3) There are additional, and as yet unresolved, tax consequences to withdrawing significant sums of bitcoin, especially to US bank accounts.
(4) There are yet potentially more (negative) tax consequences to using non-local exchanges as a US citizen.
(5) If, in the US, I'm merely subject to capital gains, my tax rate is significantly reduced by holding my bitcoins for more than a year.
I've engaged an attorney and a CPA to work the details out for me, because it's actually quite complicated. US citizens goofing around on foreign exchanges with sums of money the IRS would care about are playing a dangerous game, IMO.
Finally, I'd simply prefer to keep my bitcoin wealth in bitcoin and spend bitcoin for the things I want/need. I've been in the market for a new vehicle or two, and now that there are a couple of dealerships in the US that sell cars for bitcoin, it's preferable to take care of that transaction without liquidating on my end. The tax consequences are simpler to work out (at least right now), and greatly reduced on my end by simply spending bitcoin.
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Nope. From what I understand, MtGox is one of the biggest reasons nobody is getting anything back. They're effectively holding a significant sum of bitcoins hostage. If anyone wants to help me get back the 150+ BTCs I lost with bitcoinica, you can have half of them. Haha, but I'm not even sure anything is possible at this point. If you're an attorney and you think you can get something back, hit me up, and take half.
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This has been the most difficult of all the crashes to watch without moving significant sums of bitcoin to the exchanges (because opportunity seemed so obvious), but I remain resolved that the risk of allowing 3rd parties control over my bitcoins is too great. The best I was able to do was have some fiat on a couple of exchanges with buy orders staggered all the way down to $250, many of which, as you can imagine, were hit, and the bitcoin have subsequently been removed from the exchanges.
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Has there been a crash yet that's actually looked like that?
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Thats sad how easy they manipulate the Bitcoin price. This could be the begining of the end of BTC.
It sure is a bad thing for the BTC-economy After the April crash this forum was filled with exactly these kind of comments. And after November 2010, and February 2011, and June 2011, and January 2012, and August 2012... |
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The big crashes seem to be caused by big events. Earlier this year it was Gox, this time it's the chinese. If we can recover from the only real trading central at the time exploding, we can recover from one country losing interest. Give it time.
Big events contribute to or catalyze crashes, but crashes are primarily caused by over-extended run ups in the price. We danced this dance many times before. The price needs more time at lower levels to solidify those levels in the hive mind of the market. After a while the market will very likely move up again and set new highs on the way to the next overextension and crash. This will happen again at new highs. |
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A moment of silence for all the panic sellers who will have lost in this most recent, but oft repeated bitcoin ride. We've all been there. Your initiation is complete. Welcome to the club.
Too early to brag I am afraid. I'm not bragging. Whether the bottom is actually in or not, lots of newcomers are going to have lost on this as they try to be day/swing traders and fail at it. This is the, what, fourth time I've experienced this? The infrastructure is stronger than ever and more people than ever recognize a value in a distributed ledger system. Bitcoin is finally bumping up against governments, who are taking it seriously, and the market is working through that uncertainty. Nevertheless, I think odds are in favor of the system making it through these challenges. That isn't to say it still won't be a very rough ride for a while. |
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A moment of silence for all the panic sellers who will have lost in this most recent, but oft repeated bitcoin ride. We've all been there. Your initiation is complete. Welcome to the club.
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I'm getting the feeling is that 576 USD is about as low it would go... at least for mtgox. It could hit 1000 by the end of the year again too (but I rather see it stabilize somewhere in the region of 600-800 than oscillate).
This. I get the feeling the bottom is in. |
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Do you have any Rivals keys available?
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tripple bottom achived, now into the 1400's
Maybe. Though, it'd be kinda nice to go into an infamous long-slow-slide period so that all the (new) told-you-it-would-fail crowd could finally release their load and move on with the satisfaction that they were right all along about bitcoin. After that, we can begin the march toward $10k and beyond. #beenherebefore #like3or4times #formerbitcoinwillfailtroll |
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