DEA Agents in Silk Road Case Face Fraud Charges

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Carl or nob is the one that had the stolen bitcoins..

I personally believe the Russ should still face the murder for hire...

Wow.  So DEA guy steals the coin under greens name, tells Ross it was green, and then starts a conversation about dealing with green..

Most jurisdictions in the world would throw that out in the trash where it belongs, and conduct a sworn inquiry to establish who in the DEA allowed this to happen.

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[sAt0sHiFanClub]

The journal and the chat logs were not "generated and supplied" by the two officers

The conversations involving the 'hit' were between the defendant and the DEA guy. The DEA were involved in the generation of that conversation, like you and me are generating this exchange right now. This wasn't a random conversation recovered from a server, this was engineered by the DEA.

Just having the opportunity to pay a hitman was enough for him to actually do this. Not a hero at all to me...

You said it buddy!!  The opportunity ( provided by the DEA) was the main driving force behind these conversations. Even the theft that precipitated it in the first place was perpetrated by the DEA.

The whole thing stinks, and while I dont argue the innocence or otherwise of Ulbricht, the DEA have exposed themselves to be no better than their enemies in this so called War on Drugs. The fact that they did not recognize the seriousness of the position that SA Force had put them in, but continued to prosecute the case by "insulating" the NY based case shows a disregard and contempt for the Law that is almost beyond comprehension.

[AGD]

I agree completely, that the agents are not much better than Ross/DPR. All of them deserve the sentences they'll get. My posting was directed to the guys, that call Ross U. a "Hero", which he definitely isn't.

[duckydonald]

Since alota people keep defending Ross Ulbricht like he was some kinda hero:


When Nod (DEA agent Force) asked Ross what to do with (Curtis Green) who was supposed to have stolen 350000$, he first said:

(2013-01-26 11:17) myself: I'd like him beat up, then forced to send the
bitcoins he stole back. like sit him down at his computer and make him do
it


After one day of thinking, Ross changed his mind and stated following:

(2013-01-27 15:16) Nob: as we discussed, I reached out and I have two
very, professional individuals that are going to visit green
(2013-01-27 15:16) myself: will they execute him if I want?
(2013-01-27 15:17) Nob: they are very good; yes, but I directed them only
to beat him up; that was your wishes yesterday, correct?
(2013-01-27 15:19) myself: yes it was

and a few minutes later:

(2013-01-27 15:25) myself: ok, so can you change the order to execute
rather than torture?
Case 1:14-cr-00068-KBF Document 227-1 Filed 03/31/15 Page 49 of 121
20
(2013-01-27 15:26) myself: he was on the inside for a while, and now that
he's been arrested, I'm afraid he'll give up info
(2013-01-27 15:26) Nob: yes, is that what you want?
(2013-01-27 15:26) myself: and he ripped me off
(2013-01-27 15:26) myself: it is, after i had a chance to think on it
(2013-01-27 15:26) myself: never killed a man or had one killed before,
but it is the right move in this case.
(2013-01-27 15:27) myself: how much will it cost?

When you read that part in his own written journal it goes something like:

- Set up new server
- Site got DDosd
- Paid hitman to kill that thief
- Went to the park to clean it up

I have no remorse for this m....f.... low life computer nerd, wh orders killings like other people order pizza. I hope he rots in jail forever.

STF we dont kniw if this shit was made up by the DEA and the corrupt guy. 

[AGD]

There was no proof provided by the defense, that the files have been planted on Ross Ulbrichts computer.

[btbrae]

Well his journal or log appears to be a simple text file. No handwriting. So you have agents with access to a plain text log that can be modified to fit any agenda or story. Surely, logically... as soon as there is any doubt as to the integrity of the agents (which I guess you have to assume initially for law & order purposes), the entire journal/log is no longer admissible. But this is not the half of it... as in this case the agents have an obvious monetary gain for a large sum of money, and the document cannot be trusted at all as people will go to great lengths for monetary gain, and able to employ the help of others due to the promise of monetary gain.

I think this is a big let down for the enforcement agencies... these agents have really smeared them. I can't see how there wouldn't be a retrial very soon.

[Its About Sharing]

Well his journal or log appears to be a simple text file. No handwriting. So you have agents with access to a plain text log that can be modified to fit any agenda or story. Surely, logically... as soon as there is any doubt as to the integrity of the agents (which I guess you have to assume initially for law & order purposes), the entire journal/log is no longer admissible. But this is not the half of it... as in this case the agents have an obvious monetary gain for a large sum of money, and the document cannot be trusted at all as people will go to great lengths for monetary gain, and able to employ the help of others due to the promise of monetary gain.

I think this is a big let down for the enforcement agencies... these agents have really smeared them. I can't see how there wouldn't be a retrial very soon.

I had no idea the journal was not handwitten!!!
Two corrupt agents and a text file "from" Ross = reasonable doubt plus, you said it.
No wonder the government fought tooth and nail to keep all of this out of the trial.
Just keeps getting better and better.

And now the ties to Mt. Gox going under (possibly from government having frozen accounts and some cold wallets) is making more and more sense.

Its about sharing (the evidence  )

[bigasic]

Like I said, I believe that Ross should get a retrial, but I dont think that it will change things much. The conversations in DPR's log show that Nob (Carl Force, the corrupt DEA agent) didn't ask to have the murder take place, i initially thought that he said things like " come on, you have to kill him, its the only thing to do" well, there is no proof that happened. In fact, it looks like NOB was going to do anything that DPR wanted. Trust me, im not defending Carl at all, he should burn in hell for what he did, but he did steal the coins to put the whole thing in motion, so thats where his best defense is.

What I think is ironic, the guys in Baltimore are stating that The secret service agent stole the coins, i believe they are saying that so that it wont taint their case against Ross murder for hire charge, but you cant tell me that Ross and shaun werent in on it together, Since Shaun was the computer guy, it makes sense he was the one that did all the bitcoin transfers, so he did all the leg work, but i bet you a bitcoin that Carl got a big piece of those stolen coins. Hell, i read some communication between Ross and Shaun asking how to launder the bitcoins...

The prosecution in Baltimore is grasping at straws to keep the charges going, but while I think hes still mostly culpable for the murder for hire, i dont see him totally guilty, so if there is a trial, i bet hes found innocent. Also, who knows when Carl and the other guy went bad, they are stating that everything was fine until they stole the money..lol, i dont buy that they were angels up until that point, there just isnt tons of proof yet... I wonder how much "nob" sold on SR and didn't report it..

[Its About Sharing]

Like I said, I believe that Ross should get a retrial, but I dont think that it will change things much. The conversations in DPR's log show that Nob (Carl Force, the corrupt DEA agent) didn't ask to have the murder take place, i initially thought that he said things like " come on, you have to kill him, its the only thing to do" well, there is no proof that happened. In fact, it looks like NOB was going to do anything that DPR wanted. Trust me, im not defending Carl at all, he should burn in hell for what he did, but he did steal the coins to put the whole thing in motion, so thats where his best defense is.

What I think is ironic, the guys in Baltimore are stating that The secret service agent stole the coins, i believe they are saying that so that it wont taint their case against Ross murder for hire charge, but you cant tell me that Ross and shaun werent in on it together, Since Shaun was the computer guy, it makes sense he was the one that did all the bitcoin transfers, so he did all the leg work, but i bet you a bitcoin that Carl got a big piece of those stolen coins. Hell, i read some communication between Ross and Shaun asking how to launder the bitcoins...

The prosecution in Baltimore is grasping at straws to keep the charges going, but while I think hes still mostly culpable for the murder for hire, i dont see him totally guilty, so if there is a trial, i bet hes found innocent. Also, who knows when Carl and the other guy went bad, they are stating that everything was fine until they stole the money..lol, i dont buy that they were angels up until that point, there just isnt tons of proof yet... I wonder how much "nob" sold on SR and didn't report it..

But is the journal in Ross' handwriting or just a file? If it is anything but in his handwriting, given the circumstances, I can't imagine things sticking.

The journal seems to be like an early block that the case is largely built on. If you invalidate an early block, everything that follows is invalidated, so to speak (blockchain tech).

[Blackbird0]

Like I said, I believe that Ross should get a retrial, but I dont think that it will change things much. The conversations in DPR's log show that Nob (Carl Force, the corrupt DEA agent) didn't ask to have the murder take place, i initially thought that he said things like " come on, you have to kill him, its the only thing to do" well, there is no proof that happened. In fact, it looks like NOB was going to do anything that DPR wanted. Trust me, im not defending Carl at all, he should burn in hell for what he did, but he did steal the coins to put the whole thing in motion, so thats where his best defense is.

What I think is ironic, the guys in Baltimore are stating that The secret service agent stole the coins, i believe they are saying that so that it wont taint their case against Ross murder for hire charge, but you cant tell me that Ross and shaun werent in on it together, Since Shaun was the computer guy, it makes sense he was the one that did all the bitcoin transfers, so he did all the leg work, but i bet you a bitcoin that Carl got a big piece of those stolen coins. Hell, i read some communication between Ross and Shaun asking how to launder the bitcoins...

The prosecution in Baltimore is grasping at straws to keep the charges going, but while I think hes still mostly culpable for the murder for hire, i dont see him totally guilty, so if there is a trial, i bet hes found innocent. Also, who knows when Carl and the other guy went bad, they are stating that everything was fine until they stole the money..lol, i dont buy that they were angels up until that point, there just isnt tons of proof yet... I wonder how much "nob" sold on SR and didn't report it..

But is the journal in Ross' handwriting or just a file? If it is anything but in his handwriting, given the circumstances, I can't imagine things sticking.

The journal seems to be like an early block that the case is largely built on. If you invalidate an early block, everything that follows is invalidated, so to speak (blockchain tech).

I do not believe a judge would permit questioning along these lines. The defense does not have a shred of evidence that any files were tampered, and they have no witness will testify that things were.

[Its About Sharing]

Like I said, I believe that Ross should get a retrial, but I dont think that it will change things much. The conversations in DPR's log show that Nob (Carl Force, the corrupt DEA agent) didn't ask to have the murder take place, i initially thought that he said things like " come on, you have to kill him, its the only thing to do" well, there is no proof that happened. In fact, it looks like NOB was going to do anything that DPR wanted. Trust me, im not defending Carl at all, he should burn in hell for what he did, but he did steal the coins to put the whole thing in motion, so thats where his best defense is.

What I think is ironic, the guys in Baltimore are stating that The secret service agent stole the coins, i believe they are saying that so that it wont taint their case against Ross murder for hire charge, but you cant tell me that Ross and shaun werent in on it together, Since Shaun was the computer guy, it makes sense he was the one that did all the bitcoin transfers, so he did all the leg work, but i bet you a bitcoin that Carl got a big piece of those stolen coins. Hell, i read some communication between Ross and Shaun asking how to launder the bitcoins...

The prosecution in Baltimore is grasping at straws to keep the charges going, but while I think hes still mostly culpable for the murder for hire, i dont see him totally guilty, so if there is a trial, i bet hes found innocent. Also, who knows when Carl and the other guy went bad, they are stating that everything was fine until they stole the money..lol, i dont buy that they were angels up until that point, there just isnt tons of proof yet... I wonder how much "nob" sold on SR and didn't report it..

But is the journal in Ross' handwriting or just a file? If it is anything but in his handwriting, given the circumstances, I can't imagine things sticking.

The journal seems to be like an early block that the case is largely built on. If you invalidate an early block, everything that follows is invalidated, so to speak (blockchain tech).

I do not believe a judge would permit questioning along these lines. The defense does not have a shred of evidence that any files were tampered, and they have no witness will testify that things were.

Is reasonable doubt not enough considering two corrupt cops role in all this? I can't imagine the burden of proof is soley on the defense here. I mean they aren't allowed to speak on so many topics as it is.

I am sure things will get interesting regardless, I mean we also have questions, very valid ones, asking if the government has Gox coins (paper wallets).

I get the feeling that one bad break for the government and this case is done for them. IMO that is why the judge has been unreasoble thus far, overly strict to put things lightly. It is like Ross vs. Prosecution AND Judge.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Like I said, I believe that Ross should get a retrial, but I dont think that it will change things much. The conversations in DPR's log show that Nob (Carl Force, the corrupt DEA agent) didn't ask to have the murder take place, i initially thought that he said things like " come on, you have to kill him, its the only thing to do" well, there is no proof that happened. In fact, it looks like NOB was going to do anything that DPR wanted. Trust me, im not defending Carl at all, he should burn in hell for what he did, but he did steal the coins to put the whole thing in motion, so thats where his best defense is.

What I think is ironic, the guys in Baltimore are stating that The secret service agent stole the coins, i believe they are saying that so that it wont taint their case against Ross murder for hire charge, but you cant tell me that Ross and shaun werent in on it together, Since Shaun was the computer guy, it makes sense he was the one that did all the bitcoin transfers, so he did all the leg work, but i bet you a bitcoin that Carl got a big piece of those stolen coins. Hell, i read some communication between Ross and Shaun asking how to launder the bitcoins...

The prosecution in Baltimore is grasping at straws to keep the charges going, but while I think hes still mostly culpable for the murder for hire, i dont see him totally guilty, so if there is a trial, i bet hes found innocent. Also, who knows when Carl and the other guy went bad, they are stating that everything was fine until they stole the money..lol, i dont buy that they were angels up until that point, there just isnt tons of proof yet... I wonder how much "nob" sold on SR and didn't report it..

But is the journal in Ross' handwriting or just a file? If it is anything but in his handwriting, given the circumstances, I can't imagine things sticking.

The journal seems to be like an early block that the case is largely built on. If you invalidate an early block, everything that follows is invalidated, so to speak (blockchain tech).

I do not believe a judge would permit questioning along these lines. The defense does not have a shred of evidence that any files were tampered, and they have no witness will testify that things were.

Since when it is the duty of the defence to prove they were tampered with? Surely it is up to the prosecution to prove they were NOT tampered with. A tall order considering:

1. SA Force had access to green's account ( and depending on policy probably had sudo access which can be used to alter any system file or property
2. SA Force was a Law officer, now currently under indictment for theft and passing information to criminals.

Seems to me that 2 crocked DEA agents were at the steering wheel for large periods of time while these crimes were being perpetrated. They should have offered Ross a plea, secured a conviction on lesser charges and then concentrated on nailing these agents.  Seems they did it the other way round.

[Blackbird0]

Since when it is the duty of the defence to prove they were tampered with? Surely it is up to the prosecution to prove they were NOT tampered with. A tall order considering:

1. SA Force had access to green's account ( and depending on policy probably had sudo access which can be used to alter any system file or property
2. SA Force was a Law officer, now currently under indictment for theft and passing information to criminals.

If the government is the proponent of the evidence, and they elicit testimony demonstrating that they found these files on Ulbricht's machines, and they were appropriately preserved, that would seem to me to be the end of the matter. The government has elicited no testimony and has no evidence that anyone but Ulbricht wrote those files, and indeed it appears to contain information about SR that only DPR (and not the government) would know.

So if the defense wants to bring up that somehow, they believe these agents tampered with the files, they need to have witnesses who will testify to the fact that these files were tampered with. They do not have these witnesses, because they don't exist. The notion that the DEA and USSS agents tampered with the files appears to me at least, to me entirely speculative. Yes, these agents did bad things, and yes they had access to a Silk Road forum admin account (though not the server-side account, and not Ulbricht's laptop, and I don't believe there was any evidence that the admin on the SR forums had any kind of server access), but there does not seem to me to be any evidence at all that anyone tampered with these files. Whom would the defense call who would testiyf to anything like that?

Seems to me that 2 crocked DEA agents were at the steering wheel for large periods of time while these crimes were being perpetrated. They should have offered Ross a plea, secured a conviction on lesser charges and then concentrated on nailing these agents.  Seems they did it the other way round.

My understanding is that the DEA agent had the one admin account for only a few days.

[bigasic]

The one thing that I think that will come of it, is that this will help Greens case... I believe Carl was the arresting officer, etc.. so I think he may be in pretty good shape.. They cant say that the baltimore office had nothing to do with him,  like they are with Ross' case.

Edit, just read blackbirds last comment.. from what I remember reading. Carl had the log in credentials for over a week, (cant remember the exact dates, but it seems like it was like a week or two.)

[Blackbird0]

The one thing that I think that will come of it, is that this will help Greens case... I believe Carl was the arresting officer, etc.. so I think he may be in pretty good shape.. They cant say that the baltimore office had nothing to do with him,  like they are with Ross' case.

Edit, just read blackbirds last comment.. from what I remember reading. Carl had the log in credentials for over a week, (cant remember the exact dates, but it seems like it was like a week or two.)

I just looked, it was Jan. 19-26 that he had the login credentials. As I said before though, they were just for an admin account on the website. It is not my understanding that an admin on the website had any server access. And obviously the server was a separate machine from Ulbricht's personal laptop.

[bigasic]

The one thing that I think that will come of it, is that this will help Greens case... I believe Carl was the arresting officer, etc.. so I think he may be in pretty good shape.. They cant say that the baltimore office had nothing to do with him,  like they are with Ross' case.

Edit, just read blackbirds last comment.. from what I remember reading. Carl had the log in credentials for over a week, (cant remember the exact dates, but it seems like it was like a week or two.)

I just looked, it was Jan. 19-26 that he had the login credentials. As I said before though, they were just for an admin account on the website. It is not my understanding that an admin on the website had any server access. And obviously the server was a separate machine from Ulbricht's personal laptop.

YEa, im sure that DPR and maybe a programmer if one was working for him, were the only ones with server access. I dont see a need to give anyone server access unless that was their job...but who knows... My guess is that DPR was the only one that could access the server..

[Blackbird0]

The one thing that I think that will come of it, is that this will help Greens case... I believe Carl was the arresting officer, etc.. so I think he may be in pretty good shape.. They cant say that the baltimore office had nothing to do with him,  like they are with Ross' case.

Edit, just read blackbirds last comment.. from what I remember reading. Carl had the log in credentials for over a week, (cant remember the exact dates, but it seems like it was like a week or two.)

I just looked, it was Jan. 19-26 that he had the login credentials. As I said before though, they were just for an admin account on the website. It is not my understanding that an admin on the website had any server access. And obviously the server was a separate machine from Ulbricht's personal laptop.

YEa, im sure that DPR and maybe a programmer if one was working for him, were the only ones with server access. I dont see a need to give anyone server access unless that was their job...but who knows... My guess is that DPR was the only one that could access the server..

Indeed. And our discussion of this shows how specious it would be for the judge to permit the defense to bring up this "tampering" argument without any evidence. Yes, it appears that this DEA Agent had access to the forum account, but it doesn't appear that he even could have tampered with the evidence that the New York team had collected. And even if he could, as I said above, no one is going to testify that he did. It sounds to me like a pretty straight-forward application of Federal Rule of Evidence 403: the unfair prejudice substantially outweighs its probative value.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Seems to me that 2 crocked DEA agents were at the steering wheel for large periods of time while these crimes were being perpetrated. They should have offered Ross a plea, secured a conviction on lesser charges and then concentrated on nailing these agents.  Seems they did it the other way round.

My understanding is that the DEA agent had the one admin account for only a few days.

Once you have an appropriate admin access to a system, it is very easy to ensure you can have continued access. I still have (unseen) access to servers that I worked on 8 years ago. Not due to any maliciousness on my part, but simple laziness and lack of skills of the admins at the time.

Also, I think I was conflating access to servers for running SR and its forums with access to Ross' personal computer.

[Blackbird0]

Seems to me that 2 crocked DEA agents were at the steering wheel for large periods of time while these crimes were being perpetrated. They should have offered Ross a plea, secured a conviction on lesser charges and then concentrated on nailing these agents.  Seems they did it the other way round.

My understanding is that the DEA agent had the one admin account for only a few days.

Once you have an appropriate admin access to a system, it is very easy to ensure you can have continued access. I still have (unseen) access to servers that I worked on 8 years ago. Not due to any maliciousness on my part, but simple laziness and lack of skills of the admins at the time.

Also, I think I was conflating access to servers for running SR and its forums with access to Ross' personal computer.

I don't deny anything you say. Ultimately the issues comes down to: who is going to say what in court. What could Ulbricht do? Bring in a sysadmin as an expert to talk generally about server access? I can understand a judge being very leery of opening the door on all this stuff for such unsubstantiated speculation.

Gov filed its response brief to the motion for a new trial. It's 150 pages, but maybe I can take a look over the weekend. I'm sure it'll be an interesting read.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

The one thing that I think that will come of it, is that this will help Greens case... I believe Carl was the arresting officer, etc.. so I think he may be in pretty good shape.. They cant say that the baltimore office had nothing to do with him,  like they are with Ross' case.

Edit, just read blackbirds last comment.. from what I remember reading. Carl had the log in credentials for over a week, (cant remember the exact dates, but it seems like it was like a week or two.)

I just looked, it was Jan. 19-26 that he had the login credentials. As I said before though, they were just for an admin account on the website. It is not my understanding that an admin on the website had any server access. And obviously the server was a separate machine from Ulbricht's personal laptop.

YEa, im sure that DPR and maybe a programmer if one was working for him, were the only ones with server access. I dont see a need to give anyone server access unless that was their job...but who knows... My guess is that DPR was the only one that could access the server..

Depends. web admins would normally have access to the sites file system, from the SERVER_ROOT upwards. Without knowing the arch of the site i cant tell if this included forums, dbs, etc, but it usually would. Unless they were running a CMS, where they had CMS admin access only. I find that a bit unlikely from reading how they ran things.

What they would not have had access to would be the server administration ( root ) But their admin accounts would have given them quasi root access