If Greece defaults

[GreenStox]

I totally agree that all those peeps hiding their stash at home are going to be very prone to theft now especially when you see all the news channels and morning breakfast programs showing insider reports on what kind of places they are hiding their cash in..Like tiled draws in the bathroom was one and wooden bits of a bed and chair lol.

Yea, i dont know about home invasions in greece, but if everyone, i mean you say everyone, but if really everyone holds piles of cash at home, then obviously it will increase.

Not to mention burglars and other forms of cheats, i remember my grandma got robbed when a guy came to his house to install new lamps and wires.

They stole all precious decorations while she was sleeping, she was 82 so obviously old people are more prone to this but still, some swindlers pretend to help, when they are just come to steal.

[dinofelis]

They managed to drag it out a few days more, with expanded ELA. God luck.

I see the folks in greece know that the government, the banks, the troika have failed them miserably, but they don't know what to do.

Underscore the private property rights.

Default, keep the euro, reduce taxes, sell off everything to people who have money at home or abroad, use the proceeds to pay the government until they can fire all the emloyees.

The euro is for a single country the currency most akin to sound money that realistically exists.

The Culture Department Incorporated, what an esthetic name.

Indeed.  What the Greek tragedy simply shows, is that states are not able to deal with sound money, as they are so used to cheat that they can't deal with right accounting.  With bitcoin it would even be worse.

[Searing]

If Greece defaults then a few days after if the Greek government steps in with Capital controls and bank slowdowns on withdrawals etc


then you may see if ONLY perceived by the worldwide press to sell some of the usual eyeballs to their sites with the usual FUD

well BTC could spike on such..... but I suspect a lot of folk have ALREADY  got out a lot of their stuff in euros and thus this

may not be as big as a surprise as what happened in Cyprus on this kinda issue

once burnt don't ya know

but again if it all goes 'pear shaped' here in the next couple weeks If I was some Greek folk.... talk of BTC would be very
interesting indeed to move some $$$ to say a trusted relative in the USA or some such

but so far with BTC price I see no action so perhaps this potential FUD is already built into the price of current BTC

(the ways of crypto are mysterious to me)

[manselr]

But Greece already defaulted partially.  How do you call getting half of your debts wavered away ?

Hehe, indeed. It happened before, and it will happen again. Just take a hard look at the numbers -- there is no way in hell that Greece can repay its debts.

Almost NO state ever pays back its debts.  In fact, almost every state debt is just a Ponzi scheme, paying back former loans with even bigger new loans.  The only thing that varies is the ratio of the total amount of debt and the economic activity.  In case of strong economic growth and small deficit, the relative debt to the GDP can decrease.  But very rarely the absolute debt decreases.

Japan too, has no intentions ever to pay back its debt.  But as long as creditors are willing to believe that THEIR loan will be paid back because the state at hand will find a next bigger fool creditor (exactly as in a Ponzi), they will be willing to give out new loans.

What happened to Greece was simply that the belief that the Greek gouvernment would be able to find next bigger fools was gone.

This could in fact happen to any state playing the eternal debt Ponzi scheme.  Of course for a state like Germany with only 65% debt and almost no deficit, there's little chance that they won't find a next bigger fool creditor for the moment, so it is pretty safe to bet on giving them a loan.  For a state like Greece, with more than 150% debt and 12% deficit, that was over the limit of the belief of a next bigger fool.  That's what got them in this mess.

But in fact, Greek debt isn't supposed to be paid back.  Just to be replaced with eternal new loans.  As most state debts in the world.

Until the Ponzi collapses.

This is basically it, spot on analysis. No debt will ever be paid back, this has to be clear. And remember when you hear in talkshows when they invite politicians and journalist saying debts will be paid they are lying to extend the ponzi scam forever.
Any country is prone to not find a greater fool, except (I think) the US. The US are the money makers after all... if they print more dollars, everywhere in the world their dollars will be accepted. Can they extend their ponzi scheme literally forever? we'll see.

[LiteCoinGuy]

[ifightformerkel]

It would be nice imagination.
When only 1% from the greece population of 11 million would start to using bitcoin, then bitcoin would be unstoppable.
The volume would be explode with over 100.000 more users.

[Erdogan]

They managed to drag it out a few days more, with expanded ELA. God luck.

I see the folks in greece know that the government, the banks, the troika have failed them miserably, but they don't know what to do.

Underscore the private property rights.

Default, keep the euro, reduce taxes, sell off everything to people who have money at home or abroad, use the proceeds to pay the government until they can fire all the emloyees.

The euro is for a single country the currency most akin to sound money that realistically exists.

The Culture Department Incorporated, what an esthetic name.

Indeed.  What the Greek tragedy simply shows, is that states are not able to deal with sound money, as they are so used to cheat that they can't deal with right accounting.  With bitcoin it would even be worse.

Sound money brings into light from darkness the scam that is the welfare state.

[Erdogan]

If Greece defaults then a few days after if the Greek government steps in with Capital controls and bank slowdowns on withdrawals etc


then you may see if ONLY perceived by the worldwide press to sell some of the usual eyeballs to their sites with the usual FUD

well BTC could spike on such..... but I suspect a lot of folk have ALREADY  got out a lot of their stuff in euros and thus this

may not be as big as a surprise as what happened in Cyprus on this kinda issue

once burnt don't ya know

but again if it all goes 'pear shaped' here in the next couple weeks If I was some Greek folk.... talk of BTC would be very
interesting indeed to move some $$$ to say a trusted relative in the USA or some such

but so far with BTC price I see no action so perhaps this potential FUD is already built into the price of current BTC

(the ways of crypto are mysterious to me)

According to statistics, half the deposits are still there. It is always too late for somebody, those who think the state will not let them down, to the degree of confiscating everyting.

Are you prepared?

[Erdogan]

Complaints about life-threatening poverty in Greece...

Oh yeah? Poverty means death, prosperity means life. Consume or die.

So why do the socialists want minimum wage, non-eviction of non-paying tenants, non forclosure of people who does not pay the mortgage, income dependent support, progressive taxation, free stuff paid for under threat of force by people not interested in the products, state ownership of production units, violent labour unions, work permits, tariffs, monopolies on condition of force. When every one of those mechanisms destroys prosperity.

[qiwoman2]

There is a consorted effort by the Eurozone Oligarchs to kill what Greece has left of it's agrarian sector and tourist industry ..forget the crapola tax rise for small businesses. Basically they want to get rid of a leftist government and create another slave nation. Tsipras is the only Hero left standing in my books and if the Greek People do not rally and stand by him, well enough said basically. I am not left, right or center but with the righteous..Samaras from the ND party is just trying to stir so much sh*t in Greece at the moment along with the other radical parties and this isn't helping Greece at all. To yield to the EU demands as they stand now would be a bigger suicide than to Grexit.. Basically they want to give us bailout funds to pay the IMF and EU and not have an ounce left to rebuild the Country, on the contrary just create even more poverty and drive down the economy further by killing the above centers..i.e tourism and agriculture..so basically there will be nothing left..

Only 9.9 million slaves will be left, the rest have exited with their billions already in swiss banks..

What Greeks have to get rid of is living beyond their means, corrupt governments and officials and get the unemployed peeps to work in the countryside..this is the main internal problem along with tax evasion by the rich.. Also if they love their country they have to rebuild it by bringing back their money into the country..This is the downside of Greek culture since the 1050's..the brainwashing that came from the U.S has damaged the society badly..

[GreenStox]

Hahaha thats a really nice artwork, please post it on facebook or twitter, we need alot of people to see this, its very hilarious, and in the same time it would help bring attention to Bitcoin from Greece!

[JackH]

It is actually game over!

The Greek government earlier rejected the proposals, aimed at avoiding the country defaulting on its debt.

Greece has to make a €1.5bn ($1.7bn; £1.06bn) IMF debt repayment on 30 June.

In the speech, Mr Tsipras said: "These proposals, which clearly violate the European rules and the basic rights to work, equality and dignity show that the purpose of some of the partners and institutions was not a viable agreement for all parties, but possibly the humiliation of an entire people."

[bryant.coleman]

Greece can't pay back its debt, because its major revenue sources are dead. Consider these:

1. Export of Greek agricultural products to Russia: Banned by Russia, in retaliation to the EU sanctions. Greek farmers are losing huge amounts of money, as there is no one to buy their products.

2. Corporate tax: Declining, as the tax increases have left many of the businesses unprofitable.

3. Turkish Stream pipeline: The Greeks would have got €1.5 billion to €2 billion in transit fees from this pipeline, but once again, the EU is blocking the construction of this pipeline.

4. Tourism revenues: Declining, as the EU sanctions on Russia has halved the number of Russian visitors.

[muhrohmat]

well you exposed right this factors greece its in a tie rope now for the coins but its will of democracy must be retained soo there will be exterior help in future and the porblem its the devalues the UE and italy and ireland and spain and portugal to also get out of the euro its a chain of rections the greece power thouards to democracy its a big icon

[Erdogan]

It is actually game over!

The Greek government earlier rejected the proposals, aimed at avoiding the country defaulting on its debt.

Greece has to make a €1.5bn ($1.7bn; £1.06bn) IMF debt repayment on 30 June.

In the speech, Mr Tsipras said: "These proposals, which clearly violate the European rules and the basic rights to work, equality and dignity show that the purpose of some of the partners and institutions was not a viable agreement for all parties, but possibly the humiliation of an entire people."

1) Work; no right, you have to offer your service on the market.

2) Equality; no right, impossible, all people are different.

3) Dignity. Check. (provided you respect other's rights).
 

[LiteCoinGuy]

If Greece defaults then a few days after if the Greek government steps in with Capital controls and bank slowdowns on withdrawals etc


then you may see if ONLY perceived by the worldwide press to sell some of the usual eyeballs to their sites with the usual FUD

well BTC could spike on such..... but I suspect a lot of folk have ALREADY  got out a lot of their stuff in euros and thus this

may not be as big as a surprise as what happened in Cyprus on this kinda issue

once burnt don't ya know

but again if it all goes 'pear shaped' here in the next couple weeks If I was some Greek folk.... talk of BTC would be very
interesting indeed to move some $$$ to say a trusted relative in the USA or some such

but so far with BTC price I see no action so perhaps this potential FUD is already built into the price of current BTC

(the ways of crypto are mysterious to me)

According to statistics, half the deposits are still there. It is always too late for somebody, those who think the state will not let them down, to the degree of confiscating everyting.

Are you prepared?

that is the thing that suprise me the most...i cant believe that some people have to jump from the cliff - they will never do something to protect themselfs.

[LiteCoinGuy]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-26/its-2-morning-and-greeks-are-lining-atms-alpha-limits-online-banking


  ...

[Amph]

they are screwed right? what will happen after they will leave the eurozone? their citizen will go abroad? or there is a chance that they can start from zero?

surely those without money need to do something if they do not want to die...

[LiteCoinGuy]

they cant and never will pay back the debt in € (about 380  billion € as i read) .

they will have their own weak currency which is good for greece. with that they can rebuild their economy.

europe cant pay hunderts of billions to other countries will different laws & rules. that is lunatic.

[bryant.coleman]

they are screwed right? what will happen after they will leave the eurozone? their citizen will go abroad? or there is a chance that they can start from zero?

If they leave the Eurozone, these will be the benefits:

1. They will be able to sell their agricultural products to Russia, which was one of their main buyers before the sanctions.
2. They can go ahead with the construction of the Turkish Stream pipeline, which can bring an advance payment from the Russians.
3. They will be able to attract investment from China, Russia.etc, without obeying to the strict EU policies.