If Greece defaults

[Erdogan]

Once again this debt will never be paid, they are just buying time. As a sovereign state Greece has the ability to cancel any of this whenever they like. It's not done until the collateral is sold and Greece accepts it. At the first sign of the inevitable Greek backpedaling this agreement is over and Greece is once more in crisis mode.

Greece will continue to be in crisis mode even with the last help in money. IMF told that without a reconstruction of the debt the Greece will not be able to pay his debt. So all the other credits given by everyone will facilitate the situation but never will resolve that. The problem is that Tsipras with his politic and demagogie in all that 5-6 months in power are deteriorated badly the economic situation and the needed credits or helps must be more consistent and must serious. No one can predict how will finish this situation. There are to many imprevedible conditions that can happen. Let's hope that the consequences don't fall to the most poor people.

They will not be able to pay it, unless the debt is crossed over. Some commenters do not see that in both cases, debt crossed over or debt not crossed over, the debt will not be paid. If you think the problem for the creditors will be solved either way, you are in danger of incurring cognitive dissonance in yourself.

And if you think that the creditors can take the hit, think of who the real creditors, when everything is cleared out, is: It is the public, and they have to pay through higher taxes, or lower profit from interest on savings (pensions), or through inflation.

And with inflation I mean stagflation. This time it will be stagflation, because the capital structure is now not well adapted to demand.

[Erdogan]

The inflation (as in a general price increase) can not be determined. If you take into account all prices, the increase or decrease of the prices is solely dependent on the quantity of money and the holding preferences for money amongst the public.

In the shock that we are facing, some prices will go up, some down. Therefore you will see that the keynesian commenters will not agree on which we have, inflation or deflation, or maybe some will say that we have both at the same time.

In a scenario of lower prosperity, because the capital structure is misadapted due to ZIRP, people will still demand everyday things and basic foodstuffs, which will then appreciate in price. While not so necessary things, like nice houses, will go down. And investments will go down, because people have to use their savings for consumption. Therefore peoples wages will go down relative to the basic foodstuffs. Due to excessive regulations, the capital structure will be slow to adapt, adding to the pain.

[Erdogan]

The effect of low interest on saving and consumption: When you have pension savings, and say a house where, due to inflation, the mortgage is only 40% of the house, you can borrow more to spend, thinking that the interest rate is low, the value of your house raises, and your pension is safe. But - since the pension fund invests the money in the debt market, you really borrow from your own savings.

To make it clearer, we can take out the money from the experiment. The money, as you know, have only exchange value and therefore has no relevance to the real economy of goods and services.

Think that the only thing you consume, is food, some kind of food that can be saved and used later, however long it is held in storage. While you work, you save a part of what you produce in a pension fund, which have the form of a gigantic silo to hold the food. Then you borrow from the pension fund for immediate consumption, which is the same as you take out the food of the silo and eat it. Now when you retire, what are you going to eat? This is what the greeks now have to learn the hard way, and we will, later.

With sound money, and therefore an unfucked interest rate, the pension fund would keep the money, and you would not be so quick to borrow, thinking it will have to be paid back, with interest.

[n2004al]

The inflation (as in a general price increase) can not be determined. If you take into account all prices, the increase or decrease of the prices is solely dependent on the quantity of money and the holding preferences for money amongst the public.

Wrong. There is a very important institution named Central Bank that have as principal duty the control of inflation. There are to many monetary policies that can be used to control this. If the inflation would be not controllable the economy will be in chaos and everyone will have big difficulties in its everyday life.

[g1974ak]

The inflation (as in a general price increase) can not be determined. If you take into account all prices, the increase or decrease of the prices is solely dependent on the quantity of money and the holding preferences for money amongst the public.

Wrong. There is a very important institution named Central Bank that have as principal duty the control of inflation. There are to many monetary policies that can be used to control this. If the inflation would be not controllable the economy will be in chaos and everyone will have big difficulties in its everyday life.

Correct. If the inflation cannot be controlled every salary or pension will lost his bought power very soon and continuously. So no one will be able to assure their needed things to do a normal life. Needed more money to live normally, more money mean more inflation and this will be a closed circle without end.

[Erdogan]

The inflation (as in a general price increase) can not be determined. If you take into account all prices, the increase or decrease of the prices is solely dependent on the quantity of money and the holding preferences for money amongst the public.

Wrong. There is a very important institution named Central Bank that have as principal duty the control of inflation. There are to many monetary policies that can be used to control this. If the inflation would be not controllable the economy will be in chaos and everyone will have big difficulties in its everyday life.

Trying to measure inflation only makes sense if you limit yourself to a class of prices, like consumer product prices, building prices, building material prices, raw material prices, heavy machinery prices and so on. If you add up everything, a price index is the same as the money value.

[desertfox470]

I think that if Greece continues to fail the euro will fall also. People will think That bitcoin is fail proof when in actuality it is not perfect for thier situation.

[Paashaas]

Stop that hyping about Grexit, it's not ganna happen, to bad for all those doom porn lovers....

[misterycoins]

The precedent that Greece abandoning the Euro sets would be devastating. It means that Germany or France could do so if they ever pleased, and the possibility of that happening would place the Euro in a lot of trouble.

[Miracal]

The precedent that Greece abandoning the Euro sets would be devastating. It means that Germany or France could do so if they ever pleased, and the possibility of that happening would place the Euro in a lot of trouble.

Yes, it would seem to them like Euro is giving away free money and letting go of Greece, which will be taken as an advantage by these countries. They would default and leave stating the same, debating why Greece got added benefits and question Eurozone's authenticity. Its one of the most complicated economic situations, hope things work our for all parties involved.

[Erdogan]

Here is backgound material for the invention of a tax based alternative money system, in the center of the Varoufakis' latest adventure (PDF):

"real-world economics review", the first article, page 2, with an update on page 11.

http://www.paecon.net/PAEReview/issue71/whole71.pdf

It turns out it is an electronic IOU system, unlimited issue, centrally (government) controlled. The economic logic it is based on, is the keynesian: More money unlocks trade and therefore gets the production going.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Greek Crisis - Breakdown Of Situation With Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QowxTnF02DU

[HarHarHar9965]

The precedent that Greece abandoning the Euro sets would be devastating. It means that Germany or France could do so if they ever pleased, and the possibility of that happening would place the Euro in a lot of trouble.

Why wouldn't they go, they saw a country in the same euro group fall to its knees, despite making promises to return what it was. There is no way better for these countries, with all the drama that is happening, this is the best time for them. All other countries will leave, it will leave Eurozone worthless, and I think Greece knows that and they are making excellent advantage about that as well as the importance of their geographical location, which Eurozone values immensely.

[GreenStox]

The precedent that Greece abandoning the Euro sets would be devastating. It means that Germany or France could do so if they ever pleased, and the possibility of that happening would place the Euro in a lot of trouble.

Why wouldn't they go, they saw a country in the same euro group fall to its knees, despite making promises to return what it was. There is no way better for these countries, with all the drama that is happening, this is the best time for them. All other countries will leave, it will leave Eurozone worthless, and I think Greece knows that and they are making excellent advantage about that as well as the importance of their geographical location, which Eurozone values immensely.

Because the politicians are paid off, and they dont do what the people want but what their puppet-masters want.

Just look at the referendum, if that is not enough proof then i dont know what is. The people specifically said "no", and they couldnt even keep their promises for 2 fkin days!

[alani123]

Seems like I was right when I was speculating both sides would do their best to keep Greece from not defaulting. I was kinda surprised to see how "revengeful" the deal Syriza ended up coming into agreement with the institutions for in the end. But even as the PM said, keeping greece from disorderly bankruptcy wasn't a matter of ideological matters. The move to reach the last agreement created a lot of tensions even between the current government and some laws are now passed with the help of the opposition. I don't know how long the current government will last, it would be unresponsible for other parties to call for election at such a time though. But most importantly, even with a government that many mistakenly keep calling "radical left" only because of the name we're not heading to a default.

[deisik]

The precedent that Greece abandoning the Euro sets would be devastating. It means that Germany or France could do so if they ever pleased, and the possibility of that happening would place the Euro in a lot of trouble.

Why wouldn't they go, they saw a country in the same euro group fall to its knees, despite making promises to return what it was. There is no way better for these countries, with all the drama that is happening, this is the best time for them. All other countries will leave, it will leave Eurozone worthless, and I think Greece knows that and they are making excellent advantage about that as well as the importance of their geographical location, which Eurozone values immensely.

Because the politicians are paid off, and they dont do what the people want but what their puppet-masters want.

Just look at the referendum, if that is not enough proof then i dont know what is. The people specifically said "no", and they couldnt even keep their promises for 2 fkin days!

I guess the referendum was an ace up Syriza's sleeve in the Greek government negotiations with the creditors. When people said "no", the Troika group saw the possibility of Greece leaving the Eurozone as real, not just as a blackmail from Tsipras and company...

[Gronthaing]

Seems like I was right when I was speculating both sides would do their best to keep Greece from not defaulting. I was kinda surprised to see how "revengeful" the deal Syriza ended up coming into agreement with the institutions for in the end. But even as the PM said, keeping greece from disorderly bankruptcy wasn't a matter of ideological matters. The move to reach the last agreement created a lot of tensions even between the current government and some laws are now passed with the help of the opposition. I don't know how long the current government will last, it would be unresponsible for other parties to call for election at such a time though. But most importantly, even with a government that many mistakenly keep calling "radical left" only because of the name we're not heading to a default.

They may see themselves as radical left too. Many of their members are very left leaning. But the government's actions certainly haven't been. Maybe because of the pressure they were put under by the troika. And maybe because of their failure to prepare for a exit if they couldn't reach an agreement. They ended doing little more than what they were told to do like the others before them. As for if the government will last, I'm not so sure. It may collapse or be replaced in early elections not because of the opposition parties calling for elections, but because of their own left platform. They're not happy with the government agreeing to the latest terms and basically forcing them to go along with it.

[MasterYii]

Greek Crisis - Breakdown Of Situation With Mike Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QowxTnF02DU

Its great that this guy explains what most of us know.

But, that guy also a gold selling person on his websites, and other book selling on gold. So the video is more of a indirect pitch to buy your trust as a "come buy my gold by me" since I showed you a educational video and now you trust me thing.

[Miss Fortune]

The precedent that Greece abandoning the Euro sets would be devastating. It means that Germany or France could do so if they ever pleased, and the possibility of that happening would place the Euro in a lot of trouble.

Why wouldn't they go, they saw a country in the same euro group fall to its knees, despite making promises to return what it was. There is no way better for these countries, with all the drama that is happening, this is the best time for them. All other countries will leave, it will leave Eurozone worthless, and I think Greece knows that and they are making excellent advantage about that as well as the importance of their geographical location, which Eurozone values immensely.

Because the politicians are paid off, and they dont do what the people want but what their puppet-masters want.

Just look at the referendum, if that is not enough proof then i dont know what is. The people specifically said "no", and they couldnt even keep their promises for 2 fkin days!

Well just keep in mind theres not much they can do.

Just like everyone has influence and has money, people get bought out and they make the game in their favor.

[GreenStox]

The precedent that Greece abandoning the Euro sets would be devastating. It means that Germany or France could do so if they ever pleased, and the possibility of that happening would place the Euro in a lot of trouble.

Why wouldn't they go, they saw a country in the same euro group fall to its knees, despite making promises to return what it was. There is no way better for these countries, with all the drama that is happening, this is the best time for them. All other countries will leave, it will leave Eurozone worthless, and I think Greece knows that and they are making excellent advantage about that as well as the importance of their geographical location, which Eurozone values immensely.

Because the politicians are paid off, and they dont do what the people want but what their puppet-masters want.

Just look at the referendum, if that is not enough proof then i dont know what is. The people specifically said "no", and they couldnt even keep their promises for 2 fkin days!

Well just keep in mind theres not much they can do.

Just like everyone has influence and has money, people get bought out and they make the game in their favor.

Yes the entire system: political & financial is rotten to the core. These abominational policies like QE forever and endless regulations and high taxes are slowly dooming humanity and the creativity of the human soul.

If this persists, humans will become walking zombies in a few decades with empty souls and brains filled with propaganda.