Obama or Romney ?

[mdude77]

4. Make one self-defense law stating "If you are attacked then you have a right to defend yourself as long as you do not kill the attacker or attackers"

This one's not good.  Not unless you add another one about getting rid of all the lawyers.  There are many cases of whacked out attackers suing their victims.  Dead people can't sue.

If someone poses an immediate threat to my life or my family's life, they'd better be prepared to meet their maker.  Dead people can't pull triggers either.

M

[1715555773]

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[Lethn]

An attacker is an attacker, it doesn't matter how a lawyer puts it, if someone attacks another person then they should be in jail because they are a threat to society, if they have mental hospital then they should be in a there own separate cell with care. Also if someone breaks into your home to attack you then that's just another case of self-defense, he's trying to attack you, you can defend yourself, it's when you shoot him and then shoot him again while he's running that I would make that against the law because then you're just murdering him.

[JoelKatz]

#4. Install Flat (sales) Tax at 20%. Convert IRS into regulating entity for monitoring, collecting and reporting on income from this new tax.

Good luck. No government has ever been able to successfully enforce such a high sales tax.

[mdude77]

An attacker is an attacker, it doesn't matter how a lawyer puts it, if someone attacks another person then they should be in jail because they are a threat to society, if they have mental hospital then they should be in a there own separate cell with care. Also if someone breaks into your home to attack you then that's just another case of self-defense, he's trying to attack you, you can defend yourself, it's when you shoot him and then shoot him again while he's running that I would make that against the law because then you're just murdering him.

You didn't say anything here I disagree with.  Shooting someone while they are running away is not self defense, that is murder.

Shooting someone dead who breaks into your house with clear intent of bodily harm is self defense.

Scenario #1:

For example, hearing noises in your house in the middle of the night, you go to investigate, armed and prepared for the worst.  You find an intruder, aim your gun and tell him to drop to the ground and keep his hands where you can see them.

If he turns, and starts to pull a gun, you shoot, he dies, self defense.
If he turns, and starts running toward you with a knife drawn, you shoot, he dies, self defense.
If he turns, sees you means business, slowly raises his hands and gets down on his knees, then belly, with his hands outstretched, you'd better do nothing other than call 911, and hope he didn't come with a buddy.

Scenario #2:

Wake up in the middle of the night to the sound of your daughter screaming for help.  You investigate and find someone molesting your daughter.  You point your gun and tell him to stop.  

If he turns and runs towards you.  You shoot, he dies, self defense.
If he stops, and runs away, you'd better leave him alone, even though you're seething that someone was molesting your daughter.

Scenario #3:

This one actually happened not too long ago.  Your 12 year daughter is home alone.  Some stranger knocks at the door.  She wisely leaves it alone.  He goes around back and starts pounding on the back door.  She calls 911, then you.  You tell her to get the family gun and hide.  She does just that, hiding a closet.  He breaks in, and she can hear him going through the house searching for her.  He comes to the room she is in, and starts to open the closet door she is in.  She fires.  Clear self defense.  In this case he got away wounded.  If she had chased him down, that'd be murder.  If she had killed him with the first shot, that'd be self defense.  If he didn't run after being shot and started to assault her, and she manages to get another shot off that ends his life, self defense.

I hope this proves my point that your statement about "not killing your attacker" doesn't fly.  Changing it to "killing your attacker is clear self defense is fine, otherwise you're no better off than the attacker" would be better.

The key is clear intent of bodily harm.

M

Edit: Put another way, if I have every reason to believe it's going to me (or family member), or the attacker, I going to do my best to make sure it's the attacker that loses.

[TheButterZone]

[myrkul]

[kokojie]

Misleading, Obama has several deal breaker stance on issues for me, AA, STEM and legalization of illegals. There are huge differences on issues between Obama and Romney, to say they are the same, is highly misleading.

[myrkul]

Misleading, Obama has several deal breaker stance on issues for me, AA, STEM and legalization of illegals. There are huge differences on issues between Obama and Romney, to say they are the same, is highly misleading.

Uh huh. You keep saying that...

Maybe you'll eventually convince yourself.

[RodeoX]

4. Make one self-defense law stating "If you are attacked then you have a right to defend yourself as long as you do not kill the attacker or attackers"

Where should I shoot them then?

[bitcoinbear]

4. Make one self-defense law stating "If you are attacked then you have a right to defend yourself as long as you do not kill the attacker or attackers"

Where should I shoot them then?

Why even put a self-defense law in a plan to reduce the deficit? That makes no sense. Also, self-defense is handled at the state level.

[Lethn]

If you knew anything about the nervous system like I do you'd know where, in martial arts you get taught where the most vital points of a body are so you can avoid killing them by accident, as for guns well, of course the person is going to bleed to death anyway if you just leave them there, but you can't be that much of an asshole you'd just leave them to die right?

Having self-defense laws that make sense would mean you wouldn't have to waste as much money on a police and military while providing a lot of clarity for the people who are kept so it would drastically reduce the amount of money involved in law.

Did you attack this person? Yes? Then you're going to jail, it's that simple.

[Richy_T]

If you knew anything about the nervous system like I do you'd know where, in martial arts you get taught where the most vital points of a body are so you can avoid killing them by accident, as for guns well, of course the person is going to bleed to death anyway if you just leave them there, but you can't be that much of an asshole you'd just leave them to die right?

Having self-defense laws that make sense would mean you wouldn't have to waste as much money on a police and military while providing a lot of clarity for the people who are kept so it would drastically reduce the amount of money involved in law.

Did you attack this person? Yes? Then you're going to jail, it's that simple.

The whole "proportional force" thing is a crock anyway. If you fear for your life, you shoot* to stop. The logic follows from there.




*(In England, you wave a toilet brush or pull a scary face and hope the attacker has a heart attack)

[RodeoX]

If you knew anything about the nervous system like I do you'd know where, in martial arts you get taught where the most vital points of a body are so you can avoid killing them by accident, as for guns well, of course the person is going to bleed to death anyway if you just leave them there, but you can't be that much of an asshole you'd just leave them to die right?

Having self-defense laws that make sense would mean you wouldn't have to waste as much money on a police and military while providing a lot of clarity for the people who are kept so it would drastically reduce the amount of money involved in law.

Did you attack this person? Yes? Then you're going to jail, it's that simple.

I spent 7 years studying martial arts 3 times a week. What I learned is that no one is a super hero. Fighting is risky stuff. So I would not use my martial arts training if I have my gun.
I learned to shoot from my Dad, who learned it in the FBI. I do know what to do if attacked. If during the attack my life is in danger then the attacker will die before he/she ever see the gun. Even if your law were in effect I would do this. I would rather live in jail than be dead.

[SysRun]

http://archive.org/details/COMW_20121024_063000_The_Colbert_Report#start/587/end/617

[SgtSpike]

If you knew anything about the nervous system like I do you'd know where, in martial arts you get taught where the most vital points of a body are so you can avoid killing them by accident, as for guns well, of course the person is going to bleed to death anyway if you just leave them there, but you can't be that much of an asshole you'd just leave them to die right?

If they attacked me in the first place with intent to rob or kill, then yeah, I'd be pretty guilt-free letting them die.

[Richy_T]

If you knew anything about the nervous system like I do you'd know where, in martial arts you get taught where the most vital points of a body are so you can avoid killing them by accident, as for guns well, of course the person is going to bleed to death anyway if you just leave them there, but you can't be that much of an asshole you'd just leave them to die right?

If they attacked me in the first place with intent to rob or kill, then yeah, I'd be pretty guilt-free letting them die.

It depends. If I lived somewhere that didn't have strong recognition of self defense, I might be tempted to finish the job, dispose of the body and pretend nothing had happened.

[myrkul]

If you knew anything about the nervous system like I do you'd know where, in martial arts you get taught where the most vital points of a body are so you can avoid killing them by accident, as for guns well, of course the person is going to bleed to death anyway if you just leave them there, but you can't be that much of an asshole you'd just leave them to die right?

If they attacked me in the first place with intent to rob or kill, then yeah, I'd be pretty guilt-free letting them die.

It depends. If I lived somewhere that didn't have strong recognition of self defense, I might be tempted to finish the job, dispose of the body and pretend nothing had happened.

That's just prudence, not guilt.

[notme]

#4. Install Flat (sales) Tax at 20%. Convert IRS into regulating entity for monitoring, collecting and reporting on income from this new tax.

Good luck. No government has ever been able to successfully enforce such a high sales tax.

Govcoin... Bitcoin, now with mandatory fees!

[myrkul]

#4. Install Flat (sales) Tax at 20%. Convert IRS into regulating entity for monitoring, collecting and reporting on income from this new tax.

Good luck. No government has ever been able to successfully enforce such a high sales tax.

Govcoin... Bitcoin, now with mandatory fees!

And 0 users.

[notme]

#4. Install Flat (sales) Tax at 20%. Convert IRS into regulating entity for monitoring, collecting and reporting on income from this new tax.

Good luck. No government has ever been able to successfully enforce such a high sales tax.

Govcoin... Bitcoin, now with mandatory fees!

And 0 users.

I suppose the usual "you need it to pay taxes" doesn't hold here   Large coorporations could be forced to use it though.