SNIP
And here comes the get out clause, We'll use the stolen assets to chuck it out of courts. Because the courts/FTC are more corrupt than BFL, where you think this is going?
![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif)
haha
TOLD YA SO!
Come on boys and gals, Surely you can see how it all works now? Fucking love this BFL show, Laughing all the way ain't they at you all!
warning: rant mode below .you don't like me put me on /ignore I don't mind
jeez you act like we don't know this...most folk who got burnt by paypal when they were legit (spring/summer 2013) with PAYPAL...they drag'd out shipping beyond 90 days with promises and lies...thus stuck and ..they HAD delivered an FPGA miner before that point...in 2013 so looked legit.....so at that point in time no evidence they were SLIMY
that happened after they figured out they could not get a chip to work before the middle/end of nov 2013 imho and get it out to the pre-order masses ..so with NOT giving refunds with no product delivery ..well the fact it took the FTC till spring of 2014 to act tells you something as well
so yeah....folk knew they were screwed prob on an april order by sept...the unique thing about BFL is they did NOT go bankrupt or under even TRYING to get a miner out the door...which at least you would expect from a failing asic business as at least ......some tried to do...BFL decided they would NOT ship product on time....keep profits for invest in monarch boards (next gen before shipping last gen) and with lax FTC they almost got away with it..and mine with the equip they were stalling on shipping to keep the revenue stream going when everyone stopped buying product in aug/sept 2013 .....
IF imho they would have refunded even as late as oct/nov 2013 and just folded the business ..they would have had a good faith argument that they tried and the 'tech' was too hard and they failed..thus no one would have known about them mining customers asics etc while not shipping product.....but they got greedy and tried to go too far even for the weak ftc response to tolerate...a whole bunch of steps too far imho
so yeah they screwed us..but when (spring/summer) the majority of 65mm product was getting ordered ..under paypal etc....it was not obvious for those months they were swamped with all that $$$$ ...so yeah you could make the case the $$$ turned them .in that they did not (or could not due to development costs) give that $$$ back w/o shutting down the BFL corp and wrapping it up in such a way that probably NO case by FTC would be filed..their greed/ego etc took them down the present path before the FTC
but again they pushed it too far
I got my 8.5K back 1 yr and 20 days later in the 3 week window before FTC jumped in (BFL imho was trying to suddenly show concern for customers and keep FTC at bay imho) but too late by that time in that the majority of stuff had not been converted (like me) from 65mm stuff to their new monarch stuff....so they tried to walk from the 65mm generation of debt and that was a step too far for FTC and they stepped in ..ending refunds....when BFL could no longer mine held equip for revenue and no new revenue coming in..again imho
so me ....I admit I was lucky is all...but as a newb ordering a BFL product April 13th 2013 being told via email I would have it by May 20th 2013..then June 20th then Aug 30th etc.....well...at that point in time they had not yet gone 'rouge' imho and no refunds well I was stuck after the 90 day paypal window...if I'd had paid with credit card and amex
I was told in August I would have had a shot maybe as good as 120 days...some folk did get refunds but then BFL moved $$$ away from bank(s) and then they tried to play
paypal...I kinda wonder if when FTC settles this if Paypal and others will chime in on this then?
I contacted FTC in Aug 2013 their reply was like if I got a TV.....if from the Aug 2013 call to FTC date if it did not arrive (again treated like a TV) in 6 months I was to call them again...so no pressure on BFL to do refunds till prob feb/march of 2014 imho.....took that long for FTC to get up to speed on the scam
but again ...sometimes you get burnt ..but my lesson 20/20 from this was not really BFL ...I can't stop someone for voiding a contract etc....it is the FTC I found out that consumer protection was a LOT and I mean a LOT less robust then I thought
(as a current example GM killed 140 some people with their ignition switch problem on vehicles they HID for 10 years and paid about a 1 Billion? or some such in fines and NO ONE WAS HELD ACCOUNTABLE...so I guess this probably is not much of a surprise in 2015...but again this was 2013 and they had delivered a FPGA product the previous year..it was them or Avalon at that point in time
that indeed is my 'legit' fear with BFL that they will let the corp go bankrupt protecting themselves from $$$ damages under corporation and that the corp will pay a fine and the folk who bent to this scam rather then get a product out and/or refund promptly will 'walk' with NO jail time etc
but again 20/20 hindsight is always clearer then a newbie I was in april 2013..and again I got my $$$ back...but that does not mean it does not really piss me off in that I was 2nd guy banned from bfl shoutbox (end of aug 2013) (after rocky raccoon) for bringing up the very facts above ..ie with josh in chat (someone has the 2 hr argument someplace) and they flat out lied ..the arguement was essentially how did we know that we were not being played in the manner they ultimately did play us...so too close to home on facts/guesses thus banned...and from what they say on the transcripts we've seen (and pointed out by ftc) that was the time they were saying my april jally (1st order) would arrive in nov 2013 rather then may 2013 as promised ...i guess a mess of folk defended us twoguys above banned from shout box with our 'legit' questions and were also banned like 20 folk the next day..for same reason...too close to home about the truth indeed from what we know now
so yeah.....screwed by BFL or the attempt made sure...but in spring/summer 2013 I'm pretty sure with all the IPO $$$ etc their egos were plenty large enough to think they could get a product out...so they sold a hell of a lot in those months ..the rubber met the road when they could NOT do so and decided to keep the $$$
If they had legit gone bankrupt did what they could ...there would be no FTC case..and it would have been just one of those things (like alcheminer did...went under but barely got all I think their units out with v1.0 firmware (flakey) but did get it out...but went under doing so) ...thus they 'tried' and under the umbrella of corp bankruptcy protection...BFL it was 'lets go crooked' now that we know this boat won't float...thus now and FTC imho
anyway my 2c worth
(on the other hand they pissed me off so much after a 1/2 hr convo with amex and paypal THAT I could get REALLY my money back in 90-120 days on a paypal KNC order......I made sure (more if you filed at 90 day mark an in process if they tried to screw me to up to 120 days)
So on that 'hope' I got a knc 550 gh (they (knc) had a prototype in that time period...so had some proof and cover on paypal....and they met timeline too boot... and at that time they took paypal via amex so covered my butt...just so I could get my 8.5k back I lost to BFL ..from maybe mining enough with the knc equip (yeah they pissed me off so bad I 'doubled down" ....the 550 gh jupiter did that (on paper held btc) ..and SURPISE spring 2014 BFL refund of 8.5k I got back too boot
With the Titan(s) (1 new &1 used) (and to be fair knc also went rouge later imho) anyway made ROI so right now after elec I'm 15k ahead as of today on BTC and LTC ...so I sure hope Josh is lurking and reading this forum...I overcame your being a pissy asshole and am over 100 btc in combined worth if i converted all LTC (prob 20%) and the BTC I have to BTC....so FU JOSH...and BFL in general
I WIN....and hope you enjoy jail you pr*ck...
(heh and I got a REFUND good thing I don't hold a grudge....I can't imagine some of the pain some folk had in all this that did not manage a refund)
Well HOPEFULLY they will get taken to task by FTC ...but yeah...they could walk too..the world often as not is not a fair place
ok off soapbox but how I see it from my 20/20 hindsight view of these clowns at BFL
so older/wiser etc etc etc...but it is easy to throw stones now (remember bear sterns the bank ..poof AAAA+ rating ...gone in a weekend on bank crisis)
sometimes the only 'redress' is to take them to court/FTC whatever and destroy them as an answer to future attempts at this crap
hopefully that is how it will wrap up ...all involved in jail/no $$$ and bfl corp kaput too boot
ok end of rant
(go help us the guy gets on here that had 8.3k in BFL and NOT get a refund....he will make this rant look like unicorns/rainbows and fairy dust)