BFL fucked us over again (redux)

[Snagglebone]

We obviously knew there would be a settlement of some type. Usually with the FTC there is some promise to discontinue behavior that is publicly acknowledged, but I doubt all the good details will see the light of day.

I'm hoping for criminal trial of some sort so that if anything there are more facts put out. Plus it would be nice to see someone end up jailed for their role.

Did you now?

Now hopefully they newly alleged counts will be strong enough for an injunction.

I enjoy how the judge was like, "yeah some of what hey claim doesn't even meet the criteria of affirmative defense, but I'll allow it because I want to see there this thing goes."

i'm not picking on you rik. i would like to make  aformal request to the ones in this thread that keep posting with no useful information to please stop so that ghose of us that want to watch this thread for useufl updates can do so. Gleb, puroto libre, sbogovac searing and a bunch of others just add nothing but noise to this thread. some of them post (like gleb) what looks like useful information but it just turns out to be false and fake. i have yet to see anything gleb posted be acted upon or turn out to be true, same goes for purto libre. before you to tell me that i am wrong plese review your past posts where you say someting is true and it turns out not to be. it has not happened just once but many times. please, i am asking for the rest of us who really care, stop posting in this thread and leave it for real updates with honest and factual information and not speculatio nand made up "facts".

[QuestionAuthority]

We obviously knew there would be a settlement of some type. Usually with the FTC there is some promise to discontinue behavior that is publicly acknowledged, but I doubt all the good details will see the light of day.

I'm hoping for criminal trial of some sort so that if anything there are more facts put out. Plus it would be nice to see someone end up jailed for their role.

Did you now?

Now hopefully they newly alleged counts will be strong enough for an injunction.

I enjoy how the judge was like, "yeah some of what hey claim doesn't even meet the criteria of affirmative defense, but I'll allow it because I want to see there this thing goes."

i'm not picking on you rik. i would like to make  aformal request to the ones in this thread that keep posting with no useful information to please stop so that ghose of us that want to watch this thread for useufl updates can do so. Gleb, puroto libre, sbogovac searing and a bunch of others just add nothing but noise to this thread. some of them post (like gleb) what looks like useful information but it just turns out to be false and fake. i have yet to see anything gleb posted be acted upon or turn out to be true, same goes for purto libre. before you to tell me that i am wrong plese review your past posts where you say someting is true and it turns out not to be. it has not happened just once but many times. please, i am asking for the rest of us who really care, stop posting in this thread and leave it for real updates with honest and factual information and not speculatio nand made up "facts".

You want Bitcointalk to be something more than just trolling and bullshit remarks? Yeah, ok. lol

[noddy2000]

We obviously knew there would be a settlement of some type. Usually with the FTC there is some promise to discontinue behavior that is publicly acknowledged, but I doubt all the good details will see the light of day.

I'm hoping for criminal trial of some sort so that if anything there are more facts put out. Plus it would be nice to see someone end up jailed for their role.

Did you now?

Now hopefully they newly alleged counts will be strong enough for an injunction.

I enjoy how the judge was like, "yeah some of what hey claim doesn't even meet the criteria of affirmative defense, but I'll allow it because I want to see there this thing goes."

i'm not picking on you rik. i would like to make  aformal request to the ones in this thread that keep posting with no useful information to please stop so that ghose of us that want to watch this thread for useufl updates can do so. Gleb, puroto libre, sbogovac searing and a bunch of others just add nothing but noise to this thread. some of them post (like gleb) what looks like useful information but it just turns out to be false and fake. i have yet to see anything gleb posted be acted upon or turn out to be true, same goes for purto libre. before you to tell me that i am wrong plese review your past posts where you say someting is true and it turns out not to be. it has not happened just once but many times. please, i am asking for the rest of us who really care, stop posting in this thread and leave it for real updates with honest and factual information and not speculatio nand made up "facts".

You want Bitcointalk to be something more than just trolling and bullshit remarks? Yeah, ok. lol

+1

It was good in 2010-2011 but to many people get onto a good thing and ruin it, just like they have with BTC

[rik_khaos]

We obviously knew there would be a settlement of some type. Usually with the FTC there is some promise to discontinue behavior that is publicly acknowledged, but I doubt all the good details will see the light of day.

I'm hoping for criminal trial of some sort so that if anything there are more facts put out. Plus it would be nice to see someone end up jailed for their role.

Did you now?

Now hopefully they newly alleged counts will be strong enough for an injunction.

I enjoy how the judge was like, "yeah some of what hey claim doesn't even meet the criteria of affirmative defense, but I'll allow it because I want to see there this thing goes."

i'm not picking on you rik. i would like to make  aformal request to the ones in this thread that keep posting with no useful information to please stop so that ghose of us that want to watch this thread for useufl updates can do so. Gleb, puroto libre, sbogovac searing and a bunch of others just add nothing but noise to this thread. some of them post (like gleb) what looks like useful information but it just turns out to be false and fake. i have yet to see anything gleb posted be acted upon or turn out to be true, same goes for purto libre. before you to tell me that i am wrong plese review your past posts where you say someting is true and it turns out not to be. it has not happened just once but many times. please, i am asking for the rest of us who really care, stop posting in this thread and leave it for real updates with honest and factual information and not speculatio nand made up "facts".

Indeed I did figure it would end in a settlement, the only party that would have prevented that would likely have been BFL. Using the word hopefully doesn't speak strongly to the idea that I believe it will happen.

Also I don't see how a settlement has anything with what the judge says. A settlement is an a agreement between the two parties. The FTC settles with the people it's suing fairly often.

IF you don't like any commentary or people talking about things perhaps an open forum isn't for you. There have been links to the docket posted multiple times and you are welcome to go through and read every document for yourself as I have.

[Searing]

So is the consensus on this thread that BFL and the folk involved with running this 'scam corp'  are gonna pay a fine and walk> ...and by fine i mean the BFL corp proper...thus protecting the individuals responsible and they walk?

(likely bfl corp will go bankrupt if not already ..but that is a different question)

again not trying to confrontational on the above view..but dragging on this long and the FTC's past actions (GM etc) I myself think the folks that ran this 'scam' are gonna walk with
perhaps 'reputations' in tatters but walk none the less (again hope I'm wrong) with no other consequences...but the likely liquidation and bankruptcy of BFL corp proper.

would LOVE to be convinced otherwise however! Please state your views on what you think the likely outcome will be (should you wish)

anyway others on here your thoughts on the likely resolution of all this...even it goes all the way to trial and verdict....need a wider view on this then my own narrow view I think

[QuestionAuthority]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=788886.msg9993421#msg9993421

[sbogovac]

[...]your thoughts on the likely resolution of all this...even it goes all the way to trial and verdict....need a wider view on this then my own narrow view I think

OK, so:

100% fine/settlement between FTC and BFL;
99% Bankruptcy of BFL;
80% BFL senior staff will get some sort of beef with some kind of Tax collection agency (fines, repo's et cetera); and,
20% Sonny goes to jail because of parole violation...
<10% some legal agency goes after the principals on some ground of criminal behaviour and asks for further jail-time...

my 2c...  

[Searing]

[...]your thoughts on the likely resolution of all this...even it goes all the way to trial and verdict....need a wider view on this then my own narrow view I think

OK, so:

100% fine/settlement between FTC and BFL;
99% Bankruptcy of BFL;
80% BFL senior staff will get some sort of beef with some kind of Tax collection agency (fines, repo's et cetera); and,
20% Sonny goes to jail because of parole violation...
<10% some legal agency goes after the principals on some ground of criminal behaviour and asks for further jail-time...

my 2c...  

Ah...good point I forgot ..in USA in 2013 they have the 2013 IRS Guidelines on Virtual Mining...I doubt those involved as 'indivituals' (josh, etc) did any of this at
all...thus after FTC is done...they may very well refer them to the IRS and then Josh and company will have to show they did not pay 'taxes' at the 25% rate the
IRS expected you to from the guidelines...they could be screwed yet (good to know)

By the by in the USA the IRS ASSUMES you are honest on your 'self-reporting'  of Taxes...but god help you if they find out you have not been......then they go
ruthless...finding out about a whole bunch of individuals mining from march 2013 on and not reporting it on taxes would be a very very big deal...I think the
mandatory jail time on such if convicted is 1 year and 1 day (thou that maybe can be waived and modified by judge) ..heh forgot about the IRS angle..so you have
shed some light against them likely walking completely (i hope)

From the guidelines link here Question 8 below (link)  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf


Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer
resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin
transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency
resulting from those activities?
A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines” virtual currency, the fair market value
of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See
Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on taxable
income


Not likely to get caught on this if a small time USA miner...however ...with FTC already investigating..the IRS will likely look at this ..in that case it is the 'conspiracy' to
not pay taxes on such which would be the big deal..not the amount imho. The could really have walked into a 'buzz saw' by screwing with us and getting the FTC involved

[sbogovac]

[...]forgot about the IRS angle..so you have
shed some light against them likely walking completely (i hope)[...]

You're welcome...   I hope so too...

Was a little bit reluctant about posting it; not to make BFL "the wizer" during the negotiations. But seeing as Mrs. Wong (representing the FTC) contrary to BFL's lawyers is acting professional... Think it will be OK, but still very curious about the details of the settlement.

For other people who are interested: check the docket (see link in my sig) or follow Xian's updates!

[Xian01]

http://ia802308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.373.0.pdf

[noddy2000]

http://ia802308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.373.0.pdf

Welcome to JUST-US (Justice) lol

Joke is an understatement, but the peons need to believe it in it hahahaha

[PuertoLibre]

We obviously knew there would be a settlement of some type. Usually with the FTC there is some promise to discontinue behavior that is publicly acknowledged, but I doubt all the good details will see the light of day.

I'm hoping for criminal trial of some sort so that if anything there are more facts put out. Plus it would be nice to see someone end up jailed for their role.

Did you now?

Now hopefully they newly alleged counts will be strong enough for an injunction.

I enjoy how the judge was like, "yeah some of what hey claim doesn't even meet the criteria of affirmative defense, but I'll allow it because I want to see there this thing goes."

i'm not picking on you rik. i would like to make  aformal request to the ones in this thread that keep posting with no useful information to please stop so that ghose of us that want to watch this thread for useufl updates can do so. Gleb, puroto libre, sbogovac searing and a bunch of others just add nothing but noise to this thread. some of them post (like gleb) what looks like useful information but it just turns out to be false and fake. i have yet to see anything gleb posted be acted upon or turn out to be true, same goes for purto libre. before you to tell me that i am wrong plese review your past posts where you say someting is true and it turns out not to be. it has not happened just once but many times. please, i am asking for the rest of us who really care, stop posting in this thread and leave it for real updates with honest and factual information and not speculatio nand made up "facts".

Actually, alot of it is true. So true, someone related to BFL probably asks to have it taken down.

Check Mate.

[Gleb Gamow]

We obviously knew there would be a settlement of some type. Usually with the FTC there is some promise to discontinue behavior that is publicly acknowledged, but I doubt all the good details will see the light of day.

I'm hoping for criminal trial of some sort so that if anything there are more facts put out. Plus it would be nice to see someone end up jailed for their role.

Did you now?

Now hopefully they newly alleged counts will be strong enough for an injunction.

I enjoy how the judge was like, "yeah some of what hey claim doesn't even meet the criteria of affirmative defense, but I'll allow it because I want to see there this thing goes."

i'm not picking on you rik. i would like to make  aformal request to the ones in this thread that keep posting with no useful information to please stop so that ghose of us that want to watch this thread for useufl updates can do so. Gleb, puroto libre, sbogovac searing and a bunch of others just add nothing but noise to this thread. some of them post (like gleb) what looks like useful information but it just turns out to be false and fake. i have yet to see anything gleb posted be acted upon or turn out to be true, same goes for purto libre. before you to tell me that i am wrong plese review your past posts where you say someting is true and it turns out not to be. it has not happened just once but many times. please, i am asking for the rest of us who really care, stop posting in this thread and leave it for real updates with honest and factual information and not speculatio nand made up "facts".

Don't mind me. I'm just here to add noise to this thread given I've provided more than enough to authorities to rock Josh Zerlan's world.


A bathroom ONLY fit for the legendary Inaba. HAHAHA

[Gleb Gamow]

We obviously knew there would be a settlement of some type. Usually with the FTC there is some promise to discontinue behavior that is publicly acknowledged, but I doubt all the good details will see the light of day.

I'm hoping for criminal trial of some sort so that if anything there are more facts put out. Plus it would be nice to see someone end up jailed for their role.

Did you now?

Now hopefully they newly alleged counts will be strong enough for an injunction.

I enjoy how the judge was like, "yeah some of what hey claim doesn't even meet the criteria of affirmative defense, but I'll allow it because I want to see there this thing goes."

i'm not picking on you rik. i would like to make  aformal request to the ones in this thread that keep posting with no useful information to please stop so that ghose of us that want to watch this thread for useufl updates can do so. Gleb, puroto libre, sbogovac searing and a bunch of others just add nothing but noise to this thread. some of them post (like gleb) what looks like useful information but it just turns out to be false and fake. i have yet to see anything gleb posted be acted upon or turn out to be true, same goes for purto libre. before you to tell me that i am wrong plese review your past posts where you say someting is true and it turns out not to be. it has not happened just once but many times. please, i am asking for the rest of us who really care, stop posting in this thread and leave it for real updates with honest and factual information and not speculatio nand made up "facts".

Inaba Dude, you are one delusional fucked up piece of shit! For a person - ME - who has yet to provide one iota piece of factual information pertaining to Josh Zerlan, Sonny Vleisides, Jeff Ownby, BFL, et al. and etc., the FBI didn't seem to be wasting their time on the phone with me discussing https://www.walletexplorer.com/address/1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs among other niceties pertainin' to their asses. HAHAHA

Among other things, Josh Zerlan really fucked up when he had BFL sent me a 1099 for services rendered when the moneys paid to me was due to a bet between Josh and myself, with BFL not even in the equation with the exception that the 10 BTC paid me was directly connected to the 1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs as were some funds used to pay for Josh's BTC-House. HAHAHA Not to mention that the same address was used by Sonny Vleisides to convert bitcoins to fiat via BitPay using the third-party payment provider as an exchange to the tune of over $10M. HAHAHA

May I suggest you go and blow your fuckin' brains out given that by your postings you're no longer useful for ANY society? HAHAHA

[h@shKraker]

I'm sensing a current of ButtHurt in the BFL camp.

H@shKraker

[STT]

 I keep expecting to read about a class action concluding against Butterfly Labs and monies being awarded but maybe the company dodges it by going bankrupt?     The whole pre order thing sucks, I'd only ever do it through a credit card and then just use no goods delivered to get my money back which usually puts the burden on the credit provider or at least thats the law where I live.   Hope I would do that or remember this case in future but anyhow I dodged a bullet on this, hopefully people get some reasonable conclusion eventually on these shysters

[sbogovac]

Just noticed a few things:

1. If you take a look at BFL sales webpage: http://products.butterflylabs.com you'll notice BFL stopped Consumer-sales and switched to: "Available for Institutional Sales only". There must be a lot of people with deep pockets who are willing to give BFL a bucket-load of money... 

2. If you try to go to the BFL forums at: https://forums.butterflylabs.com the webpage seems to time out and gives me the error message: "Safari can't open the page [...] because the server where this page is located isn't responding. That must be a real inconvenience to all those people engaging in constructive discussions over there... 

 

[QuestionAuthority]

Just noticed a few things:

1. If you take a look at BFL sales webpage: http://products.butterflylabs.com you'll notice BFL stopped Consumer-sales and switched to: "Available for Institutional Sales only". There must be a lot of people with deep pockets who are willing to give BFL a bucket-load of money... 

2. If you try to go to the BFL forums at: https://forums.butterflylabs.com the webpage seems to time out and gives me the error message: "Safari can't open the page [...] because the server where this page is located isn't responding. That must be a real inconvenience to all those people engaging in constructive discussions over there... 

 

I talked to a guy at a conference I attended about the BFL fiasco. He claimed they gave up on US sales because of the bad press and set up shop overseas. They mainly sell to Chinese farms now. I wonder if he's right? If BFL has attorneys handling everything for the US case against them and never had to appear, couldn't they just go set up shop somewhere else? Has anyone seen or heard from them lately?

[Paul Revere]

Maybe look in Texas. They might be down there hanging out with Josh Garza and his GAW Gang. Birds of a feather and all...

[Xian01]

I talked to a guy at a conference I attended about the BFL fiasco. He claimed they gave up on US sales because of the bad press and set up shop overseas. They mainly sell to Chinese farms now.

This doesn't make any sense.