Pirate accomplices

[bitlane]

The reason I believed it to NOT be a Ponzi was that I truly believed that he manipulated the market, but gradually lost his stranglehold on it once Bitcoinica disappeared and he lost the ability to trigger panic liquidity on 'the down swing' from inexperienced traders using that along with shitty BOTs.

<EDIT>
In hindsight, the Ponzi may have very well been born when the above that I wrote took place and personal returns diminished, requiring new money to pay old.

[Vladimir]

Theymos, you have your opinion, I have mine. We can agree to disagree. This is a relatively minor point anyway.

[556j]

Im sure others will find more juicy ones, there must be a bazillion posts where you insult anyone questioning Pirate or BST, but these should be enough to make you crawl back under your rock.

Yah I remember the thread he said something to the tune "no one with half a brain thinks it's a ponzi", Someone replied "yes only people with a full functioning brain do". Can't find it now since goat post too much. He joined in on spamming "ponzi, ponzi, ponzi, mushroom, mushroom" mocking anyone that suggested it was a scam. Was really aggressive during July, him, Clipse, BurtW, imsaguy, aq are the ones that really got desperate. Sure there's more but those were the ones that really put the propaganda machine into full motion that I can remember. Now he's totally flipped position, his arguments in this thread are devoid of any logic and half of them are just ad hominem attacks, this guy is a world class sleaze ball.

[P4man]

Thanks, I googled your memory

The one thing that I have noticed is the more people yell herrp a derrp ponzi the more people invest after checking it out. You guys are helping this grow. No one with half a brain thinks it is a ponzi...

6 months from now you will be calling ponzi, 1 year from now you will be calling it a ponzi. We get it you think it is a ponzi move on unless you really have nothing better to do with your life.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91306.msg1008107#msg1008107

To his credit, he probably was right on the second paragraph

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I haven't seen anyone mention anywhere the possibility that Pirate himself is getting screwed by someone else. If he really was he was using the BTC to fund some sort of real world operation, it's possible someone else saw the chance to use him as a fall guy and a sucker in his in own right. They saw a way to get him to suck 5 million out of the bitcoin community while leading him along the whole time. It sounds like an excuse, but it's entirely possible.

Maybe he knows a Chinese relic collector named Chen.   

You bastard! You stole my reply.

To paraphrase a line from Apocalypse Now: I love threads like this first thing in the morning.

~Bruno~

[Vladimir]

@ Vlad    At first when your mag called this a ponzi I was happy cuz I knew that when it was shown not to be a ponzi your mag would lose face. But then I realized the odds are much greater that your mag goes out of print way before Pirates bank closes up...


@ Raphy   Yes, I will insure Pirate funds (as stated in my insurance thread). The reason for the fee is not because of the ponzi risk but because of other risks. Real risks that no one seems to ever point out cuz they can't get over the ponzi theme. Also there is a fee because opportunity cost. If I use the BTC for insurance then I can't use it in other places.


The one thing that I have noticed is the more people yell herrp a derrp ponzi the more people invest after checking it out. You guys are helping this grow. No one with half a brain thinks it is a ponzi...

6 months from now you will be calling ponzi, 1 year from now you will be calling it a ponzi. We get it you think it is a ponzi move on unless you really have nothing better to do with your life.

[LoupGaroux]

...snip...

I agree. If it turns out to be a Ponzi, the people who met him in real life and agreed to run passthrus etc should be looked at more closely.

No my friend, I don't believe you go far enough. Once this is finally determined to be a fraud, those who were his willing accomplices should be far more that "looked at more closely", they should be held accountable for their profiteering and their participation in whatever criminal enterprise was going on. That accountability should include full restitution to all victims of their participation in the fraud, immediate and permanent banning from all commercial activities in this community, and lengthy jail sentences, where they can enjoy being on the receiving end of a raping similar to the one they have all been giving to everyone else involved in this disaster from the word go.

Every shill, every mouthpiece, every pass-thru pimp, every die hard sockpuppet should be destroyed financially, forced into receivership to make good on every centime that they gained by taking part in the Rape of Bitcoin, beaten severely, lose all online access for life, be branded across the forehead with INTERNET SCAMMER, and forced to become the fucktoy of a diseased, angry, and horny White Supremacist convict in the hardest Federal Vacation spot available.

Because these, brothers and sisters, are the very rotten maggots eating away at the heart of this movement, stealing and defrauding for their own gain, and killing any chance this alt-currency will ever have to be accepted as a legitimate means of exchange by the world at large, and keep it the private playground of the bleeding edge technorati and the criminals who are learning to prey upon them.

Stake a few of them up on the border of the Internet pour encourager les autres, just as they did with a previous generation of pirates at the entrance to Port Royal.

Just wanted to make sure you could not delete this post later. People should know how pro regulation you are and how anti free market you are.

Goatski! I'm stunned. When have you ever known me to retract a statement? Or (yuck, it just sounds wrong even writing it...) deleting a post to be politically correct? And please, for the sake of debatorial consistency, re-read my post. I said nothing that was anti free market or pro-regulation. If anything, I was pro LYNCH MOB. Pro-regulation typically does not include forced branding of the face, Nazi gang rape in prison, or the application of smiting the evil law to the finances of the accused. Free markets, of which I am a well armed, deep thinking and militant activist for, are not the protected playgrounds of the criminal, and those who call for the execution of or at the very least physical torture, and forced servitude of criminals who violate the mores of that market is not against the system, they are the advocates of that system bringing justice and consequence to those who would violate the market for unethical gain.

As an early adopter of the Pass Thru Bond, and a vocal advocate of the system... you have made considerable gain from your use of the "pirate system" whatever that system may be. That's great for you, and those that have profited with you. But if this whole "pirate system" turns out to be a scam writ large, as I and many others suspect it will be, you will not be on the side of the angels if you sit back and try to wrap yourself in a cloak of outrage about attitudes towards free markets. Free markets are not about a license to cheat, they are about removing artificial constructs to govern the behaviour of the means of exchange between seller and buyer of goods and/or services. If one side of that equation is cheating, they that side had best make good when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

Or don't be surprised when the exercise of free market response to unbalanced trade is the forcible removal of that offending hand with a rusty chain saw. While your wife watches. And your children are sold into white slavery to satisfy your debt to the scary men with weapons who also believe in free markets that you tried to cheat.

Pass Thru does not isolate you from responsibility. Those who created the Pass Thru mechanism, and marketed it did so as the agents of the system, and will not have any place to hide when the note comes due. You are as responsible to those who entrusted funds to you to invest with pirate as pirate himself is, you chose to be a middleman and profit off the transaction. You now own the obligation. How are you going to make good on it is what you should be thinking about right now.

[finkleshnorts]

The terms of the PPTs were very clear. The vigilante sentiment that has been floating around lately is just sickening (even considering the hyperbole).

[Phinnaeus Gage]

...snip...

I agree. If it turns out to be a Ponzi, the people who met him in real life and agreed to run passthrus etc should be looked at more closely.

No my friend, I don't believe you go far enough. Once this is finally determined to be a fraud, those who were his willing accomplices should be far more that "looked at more closely", they should be held accountable for their profiteering and their participation in whatever criminal enterprise was going on. That accountability should include full restitution to all victims of their participation in the fraud, immediate and permanent banning from all commercial activities in this community, and lengthy jail sentences, where they can enjoy being on the receiving end of a raping similar to the one they have all been giving to everyone else involved in this disaster from the word go.

Every shill, every mouthpiece, every pass-thru pimp, every die hard sockpuppet should be destroyed financially, forced into receivership to make good on every centime that they gained by taking part in the Rape of Bitcoin, beaten severely, lose all online access for life, be branded across the forehead with INTERNET SCAMMER, and forced to become the fucktoy of a diseased, angry, and horny White Supremacist convict in the hardest Federal Vacation spot available.

Because these, brothers and sisters, are the very rotten maggots eating away at the heart of this movement, stealing and defrauding for their own gain, and killing any chance this alt-currency will ever have to be accepted as a legitimate means of exchange by the world at large, and keep it the private playground of the bleeding edge technorati and the criminals who are learning to prey upon them.

Stake a few of them up on the border of the Internet pour encourager les autres, just as they did with a previous generation of pirates at the entrance to Port Royal.

+1

Not only do I love how you write, I admire the way you look out for the community.

[BorderBits]

Or don't be surprised when the exercise of free market response to unbalanced trade is the forcible removal of that offending hand with a rusty chain saw. While your wife watches. And your children are sold into white slavery to satisfy your debt to the scary men with weapons who also believe in free markets that you tried to cheat.

^^This is the real reason bitcoin will never become mainstream.  This internet-vigilante-stalker shtick does more harm to bitcoin's image than any obvious scam.

[DeathAndTaxes]

anti free market you are.

Please don't misuse the term.   Adam Smith defined free markets as markets free from corruption, fraud, coercion, and governmental interference.  A ponzi scheme is not a free market.  Not unless you accept that the victims have a right to extract $5M in compensation from the operator.  Having the perpetrators hide behind the defense of the law (governmental interference) while claiming "free market, free market" is the height of hypocrisy.

The free market would involve the creditors using any means necessary to secure recovery of their funds including seizing all Pirates assets, his livelihood, his businesses, his future earnings/pensions/inheritances, and holding as collateral anything he holds dear.  The same would be done for those who helped to perpetuate this fraud.

Thankfully for Pirate and others there is no free market but please please don't pretend a free market is only a one way street.  A market which allows a criminal to engage in fraud but then protect him from consequences of that fraud is not free, not even close.

[P4man]

Pass Thru does not isolate you from responsibility. Those who created the Pass Thru mechanism, and marketed it did so as the agents of the system, and will not have any place to hide when the note comes due. You are as responsible to those who entrusted funds to you to invest with pirate as pirate himself is, you chose to be a middleman and profit off the transaction. You now own the obligation. How are you going to make good on it is what you should be thinking about right now.

Hmm.. Im not sure I  agree.
Their main responsibility would be sticking to the letter of their contracts. Particularly someone like  PayBTC who has to his credit   been fairly upfront about the pirate risk, never said he understood or even trusted the business model, but there was demand for passthroughs bonds and he delivered and fulfilled his end of the bargain.

That might even be true for goat's bonds, but the big difference here is Goat claimed to know what pirate did, and said over and over again it was not a ponzi. Now it appears he did indeed know what pirate did and it was a ponzi.  Perhaps that could or should make him liable for losses incurred, IANAL, but even if not, it sure makes him a hypocrite lying sack of shit.

[finkleshnorts]

I just want to say here that notme deserves a lot of credit for how he handled his passthrough (he paid back his subaccounts out of his own pocket). Kudos to him, man. That's not the kind of integrity you see everyday, much less on the internet.

HB

[LoupGaroux]

The terms of the PPTs were very clear. The vigilante sentiment that has been floating around lately is just sickening (even considering the hyperbole).

HonestBob- if you are willing to put honest in your name, I know we don't have to worry about you, but is it really a "vigilante sentiment" when folks start talking about the consequences of stealing over $5,000,000? To me it is more cause and effect. Nothing sentimental about it. You offer a service and make good on that service, you deserve your reward, enjoy your profit and pass Go, collect $200 and have a great life. You create a multi-dimensional scam, recruit a willing army of dupes to pimp it for you, fleece five million dollars worth of value from the "investors" who contributed to your magical money making machine, and then think because you can curse at a couple of folks you get to walk away free and clear with your gains? Nope. And still not sentimental, you deserve that reward too, it just won't be as pleasant as the first. You created the scenario, you live with the results, irrespective of how horrific they may be. Lay down with dogs, expect fleas. Lay down with an anonymous money laundering operation that is generating profits at a South Sea Bubble rate and then think you can just walk away with everything? Expect consequences. Big scary, bad men with bad intention consequences.

Don't play if you don't like results when you don't win. Big boy games that can make 7% gains in a day, every single day do not attract big boys that are forgiving when the balloon pops.

[LoupGaroux]

Or don't be surprised when the exercise of free market response to unbalanced trade is the forcible removal of that offending hand with a rusty chain saw. While your wife watches. And your children are sold into white slavery to satisfy your debt to the scary men with weapons who also believe in free markets that you tried to cheat.

^^This is the real reason bitcoin will never become mainstream.  This internet-vigilante-stalker shtick does more harm to bitcoin's image than any obvious scam.

Thanks for your constructive thoughts little sockpuppet. I'm so glad that you have determined what is good and not so good for bitcoin. Scam = good, talking about what happens to scammers = bad in your world. Okay, glad you cleared that up. Go back to your corner and resume drooling, the grown ups really don't need your input on this one. We'll let you know if there is a call for the simpleton vote, and you will be the guy.

[bitcoinBull]

Well, there have been a couple of forum members now who have claimed to have discovered his business model (with the inference it's not a ponzi). I couldn't find the older thread in my history, perhaps it was deleted. It had the phrase "open mind" while going through Pirateat40's forum posts revealed how he was legitimately generating consistent 7+% a week. But here is a fresher version, "That being said, read his post on this forum and on IRC and you will get an almost clear picture about his business.":

Patrick also said the he figured it out.

I would like to provide some insight into what was going on as I mapped out the mechanics of what I thought was going on to Pirate last week.  It had taken me a while to work out the money flows, and he confirmed that I had it pretty much straight.  For the doubters, they would say he was simply lying and stringing me along, but that could be said of most people on the forum.

[finkleshnorts]

The terms of the PPTs were very clear. The vigilante sentiment that has been floating around lately is just sickening (even considering the hyperbole).

HonestBob- if you are willing to put honest in your name, I know we don't have to worry about you, but is it really a "vigilante sentiment" when folks start talking about the consequences of stealing over $5,000,000? To me it is more cause and effect. Nothing sentimental about it. You offer a service and make good on that service, you deserve your reward, enjoy your profit and pass Go, collect $200 and have a great life. You create a multi-dimensional scam, recruit a willing army of dupes to pimp it for you, fleece five million dollars worth of value from the "investors" who contributed to your magical money making machine, and then think because you can curse at a couple of folks you get to walk away free and clear with your gains? Nope. And still not sentimental, you deserve that reward too, it just won't be as pleasant as the first. You created the scenario, you live with the results, irrespective of how horrific they may be. Lay down with dogs, expect fleas. Lay down with an anonymous money laundering operation that is generating profits at a South Sea Bubble rate and then think you can just walk away with everything? Expect consequences. Big scary, bad men with bad intention consequences.

Don't play if you don't like results when you don't win. Big boy games that can make 7% gains in a day, every single day do not attract big boys that are forgiving when the balloon pops.

I see what you are saying. If I were Pirate, I too would be scared for my life. I guess the line between discussing the grave reality of revenge vs. actually condoning it is a blurry one for me.

[Shadow383]

when did i ever:

- imply that pirate is not operating a ponzi scheme
- imply that i knew what the hell pirate was doing behind the scenes
- imply that i knew the true identity of pirate

please supply direct quotes for the above.

I'm waiting for p4man to do the same for me...  Slandering fools they are...

@ Vlad    At first when your mag called this a ponzi I was happy cuz I knew that when it was shown not to be a ponzi your mag would lose face. But then I realized the odds are much greater that your mag goes out of print way before Pirates bank closes up...

@ Raphy   Yes, I will insure Pirate funds (as stated in my insurance thread). The reason for the fee is not because of the ponzi risk but because of other risks. Real risks that no one seems to ever point out cuz they can't get over the ponzi theme. Also there is a fee because opportunity cost. If I use the BTC for insurance then I can't use it in other places.

The one thing that I have noticed is the more people yell herrp a derrp ponzi the more people invest after checking it out. You guys are helping this grow. No one with half a brain thinks it is a ponzi...

6 months from now you will be calling ponzi, 1 year from now you will be calling it a ponzi. We get it you think it is a ponzi move on unless you really have nothing better to do with your life.

For starters. You knew enough to meet him in Vegas along with all the others who are now a part of this too. All of you are a part of this theft.

[finkleshnorts]

All of you are a part of this theft.

No! No no no. They went and gambled and had some fun. I think they really believed in his business. They're victims, not thieves.

This isn't a productive path to go down anyway.

[Shadow383]

All of you are a part of this theft.

No! No no no. They went and gambled and had some fun. I think they really believed in his business. They're victims, not thieves.

This isn't a productive path to go down anyway.

Why, because they were complicit in bringing in massive amounts of new "investment" to an incredibly shady lender running a ponzi scheme, all the while trying to shut down any questioning of the scheme and conspiring to maintain opaque accounts etc? Well fucking waaa. I feel so sorry for them.