SCAM IPO [Bakewell] - Finally, a 'transparent' investment that will 'grow'!

[Puppet]

And get legal advice.

Since you are in the same boat as a lot of other asset issuers, why not pool some money to get one lawyer? I dont mean to get your money back from GLBSE, but to continue running a bitcoin security.  Giga was getting legal counsel I believe, you  might want to chip in, to get his opinions.

Alternatively, you could save that money and assume its illegal and a bad idea (which is the most likely legal conclusion IMO).

[niko]

And get legal advice.

Since you are in the same boat as a lot of other asset issuers, why not pool some money to get one lawyer? I dont mean to get your money back from GLBSE, but to continue running a bitcoin security.  Giga was getting legal counsel I believe, you  might want to chip in, to get his opinions.

Alternatively, you could save that money and assume its illegal and a bad idea (which is the most likely legal conclusion IMO).

I wouldn't rely on a single lawyer's opinion in such a novel matter. The opinions seem to range from "it's a security and it's illegal" to "it is simply a contract to run computer calculations, and it's perfectly legal" - whatever the case may be, nothing like Bitcoin has happened before. Ian, if you decide you need more input regarding legality, I suggest you contact other Canadian mining funds, specifically James @ Havelock. They are incorporated in Ontario, though, not Alberta. Finally, Bitcoin Foundation is out there, and is collecting membership fees - helping with these kinds of questions is exactly what they are supposed to be doing.

[Puppet]

And get legal advice.

Since you are in the same boat as a lot of other asset issuers, why not pool some money to get one lawyer? I dont mean to get your money back from GLBSE, but to continue running a bitcoin security.  Giga was getting legal counsel I believe, you  might want to chip in, to get his opinions.

Alternatively, you could save that money and assume its illegal and a bad idea (which is the most likely legal conclusion IMO).

I wouldn't rely on a single lawyer's opinion in such a novel matter. The opinions seem to range from "it's a security and it's illegal" to "it is simply a contract to run computer calculations, and it's perfectly legal" - whatever the case may be, nothing like Bitcoin has happened before. Ian, if you decide you need more input regarding legality, I suggest you contact other Canadian mining funds, specifically James @ Havelock. They are incorporated in Ontario, though, not Alberta. Finally, Bitcoin Foundation is out there, and is collecting membership fees - helping with these kinds of questions is exactly what they are supposed to be doing.

Not that I disagree with your post (particularly getting bitcoin foundation involved), but out of curiosity, did whoever claimed "it is simply a contract to run computer calculations, and it's perfectly legal"  have any relevant credentials ? I kinda doubt it.  While Im not a lawyer myself, and things might be different in Canada, SEC regulation is pretty clear that these kinds of mining bonds are securities. That the bond relates to mining bitcoins rather than mining coal is of no importance.

[markm]

I have started setting up an "OTdemo" Open Transactions server anyone can issue assets on so people can actually play around with setting up an asset helping potential customers get set up to access it and so on.

For demonstration / play / etc purposes only of course, any asset subject to being shut down upon court order, not to be abused etc etc usual kind of do not mess with our machines stuff.

-MarkM-

[niko]

And get legal advice.

Since you are in the same boat as a lot of other asset issuers, why not pool some money to get one lawyer? I dont mean to get your money back from GLBSE, but to continue running a bitcoin security.  Giga was getting legal counsel I believe, you  might want to chip in, to get his opinions.

Alternatively, you could save that money and assume its illegal and a bad idea (which is the most likely legal conclusion IMO).

I wouldn't rely on a single lawyer's opinion in such a novel matter. The opinions seem to range from "it's a security and it's illegal" to "it is simply a contract to run computer calculations, and it's perfectly legal" - whatever the case may be, nothing like Bitcoin has happened before. Ian, if you decide you need more input regarding legality, I suggest you contact other Canadian mining funds, specifically James @ Havelock. They are incorporated in Ontario, though, not Alberta. Finally, Bitcoin Foundation is out there, and is collecting membership fees - helping with these kinds of questions is exactly what they are supposed to be doing.

Not that I disagree with your post (particularly getting bitcoin foundation involved), but out of curiosity, did whoever claimed "it is simply a contract to run computer calculations, and it's perfectly legal"  have any relevant credentials ? I kinda doubt it.  While Im not a lawyer myself, and things might be different in Canada, SEC regulation is pretty clear that these kinds of mining bonds are securities. That the bond relates to mining bitcoins rather than mining coal is of no importance.

It really is a contract to run calculations, and results of calculations (hashes lower than target) happen to have some market value. Just like numerical modeling of heat exchangers for power plants.  This is certainly a reasonable point of view, even if particular court or a regulatory body might come up with a different perspective. If and when I see a court or an SEC ruling (or whatever it is called) naming a particular mining operation in the context of securities, I'll agree that they've interpreted it that way. Until then, we are speculating.

[Puppet]

It really is a contract to run calculations, and results of calculations (hashes lower than target) happen to have some market value.

The point is that it has value. That the value is derived from computer calculations is irrelevant. I dont see an exception for securities based on running compute intensive code.

As for it being a contract; yes its a contract, but the important point is that it is a tradable contract, aka as a security.

This is certainly a reasonable point of view, even if particular court or a regulatory body might come up with a different perspective. If and when I see a court or an SEC ruling (or whatever it is called) naming a particular mining operation in the context of securities, I'll agree that they've interpreted it that way. Until then, we are speculating.

You can speculate if robbing a bank is legal, but its not prudent to assume it might be.

[niko]

You can speculate if robbing a bank is legal, but its not prudent to assume it might be.

I've seen bank robbers arrested, tried, and jailed. I've never seen a bitcoin miner collecting initial funds via GLBSE having any legal troubles.  Not saying it won't happen, just saying it never happened.

[markm]

From http://www.gov.ns.ca/nssc/faq.htm :

"
 The first step is to try and determine whether in fact a provision of the Nova Scotia securities laws has been broken. This may require you to consult with a lawyer. Our Staff is also available to discuss your concern or to meet with you and try to sort out whether a violation of the law, in its letter or its spirit, has occurred. Call (902) 424-6179 or contact us via e-mail and your request will be directed to the most appropriate branch for dealing with your question.

In general, where there is no intent to break the law, and no negligence or wilful blindness, our aim will be to work with you to address the breach. Another objective will be to see that steps are taken to avoid any repetition of the events and circumstances that caused the violation to occur.

While it is impossible to predetermine what specific actions might be taken, given the variety and uniqueness of each set of circumstances that may result in the breaking of the law, our approach to unintentional or inadvertent breaches is oriented toward promoting a culture of compliance with securities laws and usually stops short of a more draconian enforcement approach. A more severe approach is generally reserved for cases where there has been a wilful attempt to evade or avoid the laws or some negligence resulting in harm to the public or whenever there is a real risk of danger to the public calling for stronger measures.
"

-MarkM-

[niko]

Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today.

Have you been contacted by GLBSE regarding claim tickets or  closure in general?  Don't forget the spam folder, just in case.

[johnjay3000]

What the fuck, so for any amounted have to verify?

[niko]

I'm fine with providing my info to any business that:

- I like
- is registered with appropriate authorities
- has a privacy policy in place outlining the collection, use, and guarding of my personal information

[niko]

Seems like we are moving forward. You may now log on to GLBSE, and leave a BTC address if you want your funds returned. You can also provide a contact email and tick a check box if you want this info forwarded to the issuers of the assets you hold.

[btharper]

I have not been able to check, as I went through the process last night, but I have heard that the AML restrictions have been lifted.

Just went on myself, as long as it's all as straightforward as it looks this is a relatively smooth shutdown on GLBSE's end, though it still leaves assets off the exchange and floating in the air. Getting coins out works though, and asset issuers can be given contact information.

Edit:

Claim finished
Your claim has been submitted and will be reviewed. You will be contacted (via the email address you provided) to keep you up to date on the status of your account, we will try to get your bitcoin to you as soon as possible.

Well why the hell does this require review? Here's hoping it's mostly a formality :-/

[niko]

Just got an email from the GLBSE:

Your GLBSE account has been processed for bitcoin. The next step will be to send you information about your assets, and to provide this information to issuers (if you agreed) allowing you to continue your relationship with your issuers.

Seems like general canned mail for regular accounts, I still have noting in terms of BAKEWELL from the GLBSE

This is a significant workload for Nefario, and it's only himself or few people at best doing the whole job. Chances are good that information will be sent out soon to issuers.

[niko]

Still no updates from Nefario.

A good handful or two of days have gone by now. Much has been talked about in our community.

I am interested in hearing what you all think should happen with BAKEWELL now that the GLBSE is gone.
What would be the solution you choose out of all the ideas and actions we have seen from the community lately.

I suggest - keep mining, liquidating, and upgrading as planned. Pay the dividends as planned (I'm assuming GLBSE will  be providing information in a day or two). If for some reason I want out, I'll try to find a buyer and upon receiving the payment I'll authorize you to transfer ownership in your spreadsheet.

[Carnth]

I am interested in hearing what you all think should happen with BAKEWELL now that the GLBSE is gone.
What would be the solution you choose out of all the ideas and actions we have seen from the community lately.

I think BAKEWELL should still operate as normal. In fact I hope you are mining with the 2 rigs you already have. Just keep the earnings in a BAKEWELL wallet for now.

There are others working on new BTC "asset" exchnages. Burnside has a promising one in development, complete with consulting a lawyer and everything.

I hope that Nefario will be able to release the list of email addresses with whom owns what and how many. If that is the case, then moving to a new exchange is easy. This would definetely get my vote. Even without an exchange, issuing "shares" and dividends is doable manually, albeit much more messy.

[tulkos]

I'm all for the spreadsheet for the time being.
Also to get up and mining ASAP.

[tulkos]

Also to get up and mining ASAP.

Rigs are up and running, pps @ 50btc, just banking right now while everything gets worked out

Good to hear, I must have missed that part with all the drama these days.

[niko]

Also to get up and mining ASAP.

Rigs are up and running, pps @ 50btc, just banking right now while everything gets worked out

Glad to read that rigs are hashing!

[niko]

How is it going?  No word from GLBSE yet.  I would be comfortable waiting a bit more before trying to reconstruct everyone's stake based on initial transfers and published history of trades. In the meantime - we are hashing, aren't we?