pirate payments list -- accounts paid: 23/459

[myrkul]

Yesterday he said he'd have further info later in the evening.  Did anything ever materialize?

Nada. Radio silence from the Pirate.

[Maged]

It would also rhyme with pirate claiming to be afraid of BTC price increase, since he would be paid in dollar and owed BTC.
And it would even match his grandiose claims of being part of a much much bigger "thing".

as for the timing, Maged quoted pirate on august 17, 6pm:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101339.0

Not sure how long that was after pirate announced closing shop, but probably only a few hours.

All in all, sounds plausible.

I posted that 10 minutes after the announcement. The only reason it even took that long was because I needed to execute the contingency plan that I had written up after considering the possibilities a few weeks prior: sell everything... immediately. Turns out that I actually had plenty of time, so I could have just posted the announcement 3 minutes after it was public, but I had no way of knowing that 

[2012-08-17 13:05:37] <Maged> I'm in FULL PANIC mode, now. Contingency plans are now in progress.

[conspirosphere.tk]

So if Pirate's op was just a passtrough to Zeek, that means that he must have sold all the BTC that he received, so now there is no risk of dumps and the BTC price can only go up and upper, right?  

[dust]

Why would anyone run a secret pass through to a ponzi when they could just run a ponzi themselves?

[flower1024]

Why would anyone run a secret pass through to a ponzi when they could just run a ponzi themselves?

maybe he thought it was legit?

only thing i dont understand why he didnt told what he was doing the hole time.
he said he can't tell because other people would do the same: but i dont see a problem with that if he really invested in zeek.

[myrkul]

So if Pirate's op was just a passtrough to Zeek, that means that he must have sold all the BTC that he received, so now there no risk of dumps and the BTC price can only go up and upper, right? 

Finally, a ray of sunshine in this mess. A little hope, at least.

[Vladimir]

Why would anyone run a secret pass through to a ponzi when they could just run a ponzi themselves?

With reference to "Breaking Bad", reportedly a favorite show of Pirate and some of his leutenants:

Why buy meth from a cook and sell it on the street, when you can cook it yourself and then sell it?

[Vladimir]

this reminds me:

May 2012: http://bitcoinmagazine.net/ponzi-schemes-the-danger-of-high-interest-savings-funds/

[Vladimir]

Yep it would be much wiser to be much more abstract and use word "Ponzi" or even "Fraud" instead of "MMM". My bad.

[Bitcoin Oz]

From what I understand about zeek it was paying about 1.5% a day.

Pirate said before he was making about 10.5% a week and paying out about 7%. Making a 3.5% profit.

1.5 x 7 = 10.5

Also the timing is just well odd. Same time zeek got shut down so did he.

Makes sense now.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Yep it would be much wiser to be much more abstract and use word "Ponzi" or even "Fraud" instead of "MMM". My bad.

Everything about the timelines, his wife having talked about Zeek rewards, it's all circumstantial of course, but it would explain a lot. If it does turn out to have been a passthru for Zeek rewards, that'll be sad. Patrick still says it's not what they had discussed as being the method to make money though so either Pirate was lying (becoming more likely to me) or it's -still- not a ponzi. Either way, the lending rates in this community have got to equalize sooner or later. I think this pirate fiasco will help that a bit.

[unclescrooge]

From what I understand about zeek it was paying about 1.5% a day.

Pirate said before he was making about 10.5% a week and paying out about 7%. Making a 3.5% profit.

1.5 x 7 = 10.5

Also the timing is just well odd. Same time zeek got shut down so did he.

Yes, but the "profit" in Zeek are in USD, and the profit with pirate were in BTC. In USD terms, Pirate "profits" were a lot higher (at least in the last months).

But then again, timing is odd :/

[MrTeal]

Another option is that Pirate knew it was a ponzi, but like many of the investor here he thought that he could get out before the collapse. If Pirate was running a passthrough and he had shuttered BTCST in July, he could have returned all the deposits and still come out way ahead (assuming no clawbacks) without risking his own money.

[flower1024]

i somewhere heard that if a ponzi is detected by sec and the funds gets redistributed all pass-throughs dont get anything

is that true?

if so would that mean that pirate does not get his usd cut to payout his btc lenders?

[dust]

i somewhere heard that if a ponzi is detected by sec and the funds gets redistributed all pass-throughs dont get anything

is that true?

if so would that mean that pirate does not get his usd cut to payout his btc lenders?

Why would that be the case? For example, Pirate owes Goat say 40k btc.  The SEC makes pirate pay Goat some money.  Goat can do whatever he wants with that money, including give it to other people.  Pirate's "give a list of depositors or face the consequences" deal is bullshit imo.

Another option is that Pirate knew it was a ponzi, but like many of the investor here he thought that he could get out before the collapse. If Pirate was running a passthrough and he had shuttered BTCST in July, he could have returned all the deposits and still come out way ahead (assuming no clawbacks) without risking his own money.

He would still be risking his own money, unless he intended all along not to pay back investors.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Yep it would be much wiser to be much more abstract and use word "Ponzi" or even "Fraud" instead of "MMM". My bad.

Everything about the timelines, his wife having talked about Zeek rewards, it's all circumstantial of course, but it would explain a lot. If it does turn out to have been a passthru for Zeek rewards, that'll be sad. Patrick still says it's not what they had discussed as being the method to make money though so either Pirate was lying (becoming more likely to me) or it's -still- not a ponzi. Either way, the lending rates in this community have got to equalize sooner or later. I think this pirate fiasco will help that a bit.

Part of the problem is the lack of existing financial world offering deposit accounts.

[Bitcoin Oz]

From what I understand about zeek it was paying about 1.5% a day.

Pirate said before he was making about 10.5% a week and paying out about 7%. Making a 3.5% profit.

1.5 x 7 = 10.5

Also the timing is just well odd. Same time zeek got shut down so did he.

Yes, but the "profit" in Zeek are in USD, and the profit with pirate were in BTC. In USD terms, Pirate "profits" were a lot higher (at least in the last months).

But then again, timing is odd :/

Pirate also said the only thing that would affect his business is if the price of bitcoin rose rapidly....

[flower1024]

i somewhere heard that if a ponzi is detected by sec and the funds gets redistributed all pass-throughs dont get anything

is that true?

if so would that mean that pirate does not get his usd cut to payout his btc lenders?

Why would that be the case? For example, Pirate owes Goat say 40k btc.  The SEC makes pirate pay Goat some money.  Goat can do whatever he wants with that money, including give it to other people.  Pirate's "give a list of depositors or face the consequences" deal is bullshit imo.

i dont know, its just something i have read.
if it would be true it would mean that pirate does not get anything but his lenders do have a right to talk to zeekrewards directly.

essentially i just want to know the following:
IF pirate "invested" in zeek: whats the process to get money down to my bitcoinmax account.
who has the right to to decide which peace goes to whom
is anybody entitled to take a fee for his "dividing"-work

[MrTeal]

i somewhere heard that if a ponzi is detected by sec and the funds gets redistributed all pass-throughs dont get anything

is that true?

if so would that mean that pirate does not get his usd cut to payout his btc lenders?

Why would that be the case? For example, Pirate owes Goat say 40k btc.  The SEC makes pirate pay Goat some money.  Goat can do whatever he wants with that money, including give it to other people.  Pirate's "give a list of depositors or face the consequences" deal is bullshit imo.

Another option is that Pirate knew it was a ponzi, but like many of the investor here he thought that he could get out before the collapse. If Pirate was running a passthrough and he had shuttered BTCST in July, he could have returned all the deposits and still come out way ahead (assuming no clawbacks) without risking his own money.

He would still be risking his own money, unless he intended all along not to pay back investors.

Not necessarily. He could have intended to run the passthrough and pay everyone out, but accepted the risk that he wouldn't be able to pay back if the scheme fell down around him. If it did fail, it leaves the BTC community to internet rage and see if they're successfully able to sue him.

I have to admit, if it is the case that Pirate was all tied up in Zeek, the thought that he isn't sitting on a pile of cash he scammed but he got wiped out himself brings a smile to my face.

[DutchBrat]

i somewhere heard that if a ponzi is detected by sec and the funds gets redistributed all pass-throughs dont get anything

is that true?

if so would that mean that pirate does not get his usd cut to payout his btc lenders?

Why would that be the case? For example, Pirate owes Goat say 40k btc.  The SEC makes pirate pay Goat some money.  Goat can do whatever he wants with that money, including give it to other people.  Pirate's "give a list of depositors or face the consequences" deal is bullshit imo.

i dont know, its just something i have read.
if it would be true it would mean that pirate does not get anything but his lenders do have a right to talk to zeekrewards directly.

essentially i just want to know the following:
IF pirate "invested" in zeek: whats the process to get money down to my bitcoinmax account.
who has the right to to decide which peace goes to whom
is anybody entitled to take a fee for his "dividing"-work

Zeek is currently in receivership.... so the receiver is adding up the available assets, then sees who has a valid claim as a participant

Then whatever assets are in Zeek are distributed to the valid claimants

This is a lengthy process, which can take years and the receiver has to be paid for the work he does, so any payout will be seriously whittled down.

Added problem is how can you lodge a valid claim ? You had an account at BitcoinMax, anonymously, in a cyber currency.... BitcoinMax had an account with a guy named pirateat40, also anonymously also in a cyber currency....

Is going to be an uphill  battle for sure