TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs

[MrTeal]

Why is there no registered business or trademarks in Missouri for Butterfly Labs, BFL, anything similar to that and the word "Bitforce" doesn't appear in any patent or trademark registration?  Also why is your website protected by a privacy registration company, you use a PO box, and you use a difficult to trace Sprint mobile number for all calls and faxes?

I know you don't want people finding out where your facility is and breaking into it and stealing lots of ungodly expensive chips and a security system to stop that would cost a fortune but it's also good in the bitcoin world to prove that you exist and that it's where you say you exist, especially with a company employee or owner or whatever having a criminal background including fraud.

I highly doubt BFL keeps excessive amounts of inventory or equipment onhand, at least not any more than any other electronics development house. Even if they had US$1M worth of test equipment and product on hand, that wouldn't be outside the norm. My previous employer had that much tied up in just a half dozen spectrum analyzers, and I still had the physical location and phone number printed on my business card.

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[Yolocoin]

Why didn't BFL just answer the questions when they first came up instead of giving an obviously bullshit answeR?

[Rassah]

Who is the treasurer/CFO of the company? I.e. who is in charge of the money, Sonny himself, or a separate person without a conflict of interest?
When a BTC payment is sent, are all funds kept in BTC, or are they all converted to USD? And who's account does the money go to?

Asking because one setup let's the owner abscond with the funds (like pirate), the other keeps the funds in the company.

[squid]

Good to see the community is finally starting to look out for itself.

[Kaliecious]

I would like to know how sonny come to know of the bitcoin community.

Has he been a miner this whole time?

Does he have the knowledge and expierence to produce these types of products, if not

Who is the backer or brains behind the opperation.

[niko]

Who is the treasurer/CFO of the company? I.e. who is in charge of the money, Sonny himself, or a separate person without a conflict of interest?
When a BTC payment is sent, are all funds kept in BTC, or are they all converted to USD? And who's account does the money go to?

Asking because one setup let's the owner abscond with the funds (like pirate), the other keeps the funds in the company.

This is a valid concern.  Who is in control of USD and BTC funds?

[bitcoindaddy]

I'm seeing the sandpaper-ing of the chips in the original BFL single in a new light now that I know about the founder's past....

[SLok]

Is sonny going to make his previous victims whole ?

That's what the justice system is supposed to do.

Ripping off little old ladies then being free and clear to raise millions of dollars while his victims live off noodles because he stole their pension money isn't justice at all.

You are joking, right? I though they just played, or supposed they did play, in foreign lotteries? If that puts you on a noodle diet, you have to blaime yourself.
I liked the "little old ladies" part though.

[bigasic]

I agree with almost everything that David spitzer has said... As long as we get our machines and they function as promised, I see no fraud. Also, EVERY story has 2 sides to it..  I have a HUGE investment into BFL as some know. Does Sonny's background concern me? sure, but until they don't deliver (or lie). I am confident in my investment. I have many singles performing just as advertised.

Im not a lawyer, but I play one on tv (J/K)

Seriously, If I had a checkered past, I too, wouldn't want it known, especially starting a business, people assume too much. He deserves a second chance. As long as he has learned from his mistakes and moves forward in an honest fashion, I see no reason to worry...

Once the Asics start deliver, Sonnys past will be a distant thought...

So, until I have a valid reason not to support BFL, i will continue to do so... Past mistakes are just that, past. Now, had this come to light before BFL started to deliver, I would have probably sing a different tune. They hadn't proved anything, but they since have. Yes they have had their bumps in the road, but I don't know of one start up that has run totally smooth in its first years. Since they have been providing the singles and mini rigs, I come to the conclusion that they are trying to run an honest, profitable business..

[niko]

I agree with almost everything that David spitzer has said... As long as we get our machines and they function as promised, I see no fraud. Also, EVERY story has 2 sides to it..  I have a HUGE investment into BFL as some know. Does Sonny's background concern me? sure, but until they don't deliver (or lie). I am confident in my investment. I have many singles performing just as advertised.

Im not a lawyer, but I play one on tv (J/K)

Seriously, If I had a checkered past, I too, wouldn't want it known, especially starting a business, people assume too much. He deserves a second chance. As long as he has learned from his mistakes and moves forward in an honest fashion, I see no reason to worry...

Once the Asics start deliver, Sonnys past will be a distant thought...

So, until I have a valid reason not to support BFL, i will continue to do so... Past mistakes are just that, past. Now, had this come to light before BFL started to deliver, I would have probably sing a different tune. They hadn't proved anything, but they since have. Yes they have had their bumps in the road, but I don't know of one start up that has run totally smooth in its first years. Since they have been providing the singles and mini rigs, I come to the conclusion that they are trying to run an honest, profitable business..

Would you consider the following possibility: some (or most) of the $25M have not been recovered, and are now being laundered through BFL. If you are comfortable with this possibility, how about its impact on the legitimate ASIC developers?

[greyhawk]

I would like to know more about his involvement with Laissez Faire City, James Orlin Grabbe and thus the KGB as outlined in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0

[TheSeven]

I agree with almost everything that David spitzer has said... As long as we get our machines and they function as promised, I see no fraud. Also, EVERY story has 2 sides to it..  I have a HUGE investment into BFL as some know. Does Sonny's background concern me? sure, but until they don't deliver (or lie). I am confident in my investment. I have many singles performing just as advertised.

Im not a lawyer, but I play one on tv (J/K)

Seriously, If I had a checkered past, I too, wouldn't want it known, especially starting a business, people assume too much. He deserves a second chance. As long as he has learned from his mistakes and moves forward in an honest fashion, I see no reason to worry...

Once the Asics start deliver, Sonnys past will be a distant thought...

So, until I have a valid reason not to support BFL, i will continue to do so... Past mistakes are just that, past. Now, had this come to light before BFL started to deliver, I would have probably sing a different tune. They hadn't proved anything, but they since have. Yes they have had their bumps in the road, but I don't know of one start up that has run totally smooth in its first years. Since they have been providing the singles and mini rigs, I come to the conclusion that they are trying to run an honest, profitable business..

Please stay on topic, i.e. post only questions to be asked, this thread clearly isn't supposed to end up in a continuation of that recent flamewar.

[bigasic]

I agree with almost everything that David spitzer has said... As long as we get our machines and they function as promised, I see no fraud. Also, EVERY story has 2 sides to it..  I have a HUGE investment into BFL as some know. Does Sonny's background concern me? sure, but until they don't deliver (or lie). I am confident in my investment. I have many singles performing just as advertised.

Im not a lawyer, but I play one on tv (J/K)

Seriously, If I had a checkered past, I too, wouldn't want it known, especially starting a business, people assume too much. He deserves a second chance. As long as he has learned from his mistakes and moves forward in an honest fashion, I see no reason to worry...

Once the Asics start deliver, Sonnys past will be a distant thought...

So, until I have a valid reason not to support BFL, i will continue to do so... Past mistakes are just that, past. Now, had this come to light before BFL started to deliver, I would have probably sing a different tune. They hadn't proved anything, but they since have. Yes they have had their bumps in the road, but I don't know of one start up that has run totally smooth in its first years. Since they have been providing the singles and mini rigs, I come to the conclusion that they are trying to run an honest, profitable business..

Would you consider the following possibility: some (or most) of the $25M have not been recovered, and are now being laundered through BFL. If you are comfortable with this possibility, how about its impact on the legitimate ASIC developers?

I can guarantee you that he plead guilty because of the huge costs he would have had to plead innocent and go to trial. Im not saying people got screwed out of money, its obvious that is the case. I am not in a place to judge him on what he should/would pay back. His part may have been big or extremely small. He served  his time, paid his fine ( I assume) and should get on with his life.. All that is important to me is that BFL is ran legally... If anything that proves to the contrary, then i may change my tune.. But, to keep arguing that Sonny and BFL are a scam is crazy.. So far, I have not heard of one person not receiving what they have been promised. In fact, i have been quite impressed with their products...

Im not condoning any illegal actions. We know know the story.. What good is it to start hashing (pun intended) out all the facts of the case? My main concern is that BFL be honest in all their dealings. What happened in the past is just that, the past...

Edit: no flame ware intended. I, too, want to be focused on BLF's progress, etc

Also, now the cat is out of the bag, I would think that BFL will be more transparent.. Why not list the names of all those that are in charge of BFL, etc. That is what I would like to know.. Who is the CEO, etc.. and the basic structure of how the company is ran...

[Inaba]

I have sent Sonny's response in a PM to Psilan to post.  We are waiting for Theymos to get BFL_Sonny out of Newbie jail, then he will take over and I won't be the go-between anymore.  Hopefully Psilan will get the response posted ASAP.

[psilan]

Posted here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110786.msg1206136#msg1206136
Thanks Inaba/Sonny.

[bitcoindaddy]

Please stay on topic, i.e. post only questions to be asked, this thread clearly isn't supposed to end up in a continuation of that recent flamewar.

What do you expect when the old thread gets locked?

[greyhawk]

I came to know my real father only as an adult.  So when I got the opportunity to know him better, I was eager and curious.  His name was James Ray Houston (the focus of the indictment).  He was very charismatic and had a wild past from having ran for governor in Nevada.  At one time he had a Lear jet with his picture on the tail.  He'd gone broke and rich several times since and had a zillion GREAT stories to tell.  I was completely enamored.  At that time he had been building a business bundling lottery tickets and selling shares of ownership in their potential winnings.  He moved to simply guaranteeing the ticket results on his own via re-insurance pools (US Pattent application number US 2004/0058726 A1).  At some point after that it became clear to him that he could use my company's software system and sportsbook license to clarify legality and allow his customers to bet on the outcome of a lottery without buying a lottery ticket.  .  So instead of "I bet the Giants win by 7", it's "I bet the NY Lottery pick 3 is 4-7-2".

Jesus Christ, it's a 1930s numbers racket.

[psilan]

Please stay on topic, i.e. post only questions to be asked, this thread clearly isn't supposed to end up in a continuation of that recent flamewar.

What do you expect when the old thread gets locked?

Here is a thread on the subject for chit chat . Bring any questions back if you want them answered, i'm not sure if BFL_Sonny will post in all threads.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0

[Xfinity]

Thanks for the response BFL. I liked what I read and you still have my confidence and paid orders.

[bitcoindaddy]

I feel like I know more now about BFL than in the previous year combined. I hope you continue to operate BFL in an open manner.