[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending

[tgmarks]

I have a had a few small defaults on loans I have made also.  Love the concept, but you need to fix this.

[Tulkas]

I'm opting to stop lending here until such policies are outlined and shown to work well.. still waiting for the first two loans I lent out on to be repaid as well.

I'm totally with you, and is a pity because it would be a great thing if it worked a bit better, but with this loan failure is really too dangerous to invest here 

A small suggestion to Tulkas: to reduce the fraud and the damage to lender you can keep a warranty from the borrowed amount, proportional to the credit rating. I mean something like: (15-(credit ratining))%, so if you have a 0C.R. you have 15% of loan as warranty, if you've 8 point you have 7% and if you've 10 you leave 5%. You can also ask a small amount to subscribe as lender (0,5-1BTC) to reduce the risk of sockpuppet accounts and to create a small fund (in wich you can keeping a 0.5/1% of every loan as warranty too) to cover unpayed loans.

At the end of the loan payment you can unlock the money minus your % and the warranty fund.
In the event the loan will not be repayed you can use the kept BTCs plus a part of the warranty fund to cover a part of the debt (losing a 75-80% is better than 100%), meanwhile we really hope that you can enforce in someway the loan payments.

Yes, we are working towards enforcement, etc.

I would also like to note that the service today is far from perfect, but we believe it represents a major improvement on the rater manual procedures used on this forum, good payers are building good reputation profiles already.

One good thing that is already happening is the scammers are being casted out too, we had two cases of scammers trying to get other accounts verified with no luck.

Takes time to build an ecosystem, but it is being built.

We have several good payers and the majority of loans are being paid on time, that being said we think perhaps we should add more moderation on users and listings instead of just let the "system" regulate itself.

[ercolinux]

I'm opting to stop lending here until such policies are outlined and shown to work well.. still waiting for the first two loans I lent out on to be repaid as well.

I'm totally with you, and is a pity because it would be a great thing if it worked a bit better, but with this loan failure is really too dangerous to invest here 

A small suggestion to Tulkas: to reduce the fraud and the damage to lender you can keep a warranty from the borrowed amount, proportional to the credit rating. I mean something like: (15-(credit ratining))%, so if you have a 0C.R. you have 15% of loan as warranty, if you've 8 point you have 7% and if you've 10 you leave 5%. You can also ask a small amount to subscribe as lender (0,5-1BTC) to reduce the risk of sockpuppet accounts and to create a small fund (in wich you can keeping a 0.5/1% of every loan as warranty too) to cover unpayed loans.

At the end of the loan payment you can unlock the money minus your % and the warranty fund.
In the event the loan will not be repayed you can use the kept BTCs plus a part of the warranty fund to cover a part of the debt (losing a 75-80% is better than 100%), meanwhile we really hope that you can enforce in someway the loan payments.

Yes, we are working towards enforcement, etc.

I would also like to note that the service today is far from perfect, but we believe it represents a major improvement on the rater manual procedures used on this forum, good payers are building good reputation profiles already.

One good thing that is already happening is the scammers are being casted out too, we had two cases of scammers trying to get other accounts verified with no luck.

Takes time to build an ecosystem, but it is being built.

We have several good payers and the majority of loans are being paid on time, that being said we think perhaps we should add more moderation on users and listings instead of just let the "system" regulate itself.

Glad to hear, the idea of a moderator is nice too even if not so easy to implement
I really like the idea behind btcjam and I really hope that the ecosystem of user become every day more "secure". I'm not blaming you for the scammers obviously, and I know that especially at the beginning is really difficult to recognize them and to keep a clean user base. I only suggest a way to reduce the risks for lenders and to improve the platform.
Maybe adding the statistics of payed loans/total and the list of bad payers in a section accessible by registered user will help in increase confidence in lender.

[creativex]

I had trouble with both phone verification(not sure it worked) and with updating basic info. That spit out this error:

Phone checks is too long (maximum is 3 characters)

...so presumably that parts error was due to the phone error. I sent you a PM, I'd appreciate whatever assistance you can provide. TIA. Love the concept, great work!

[Tulkas]

I had trouble with both phone verification(not sure it worked) and with updating basic info. That spit out this error:

Phone checks is too long (maximum is 3 characters)

...so presumably that parts error was due to the phone error. I sent you a PM, I'd appreciate whatever assistance you can provide. TIA. Love the concept, great work!

Thanks!

Sent you a PM.

[Tulkas]

I just wanted to give some feedback on BTCJam from my personal use.

It would be nice to have an option to make your payment on a loan automatically when you have BTC in your account.
Because if you like me, you deposited it into your account on BTCJam and then forgot to make the payment...lol

The other thing I noticed, was when you have a late payment I wasn't sure what Time zone the site was based on, I'm assuming GMT.
I looked around to see if they had the time listed anywhere or the date listed lol...
Because I had a payment that was late based on the sites time and not late based on my time zone 

Other than my feedback, its a great site and makes things really easy.

I'm glad you liked our service!

As for the automatic payments, we will add this option soon, i've added this request on our uservoice widget so you can follow the development process.

Thanks for the feedback!

[KB5988]

I got pointed here to ask about this issue.  I transferred some coins from my Mt.Gox account to BTCJam over two transactions over the last two days, neither of which have shown up so far and don't show as unconfirmed. 

I looked up the address and firstbit information on blockchain.info and they aren't showing up there yet at all.  I have verified that the address withdrawn to from Mt.Gox is the same as the deposit address from BTCJam as well, so I'm fairly certain that it wasn't an error at that part.  Is there any other way I can try and keep tabs on the transactions, or what I can do if they don't show up?

[SgtSpike]

I haven't read through this entire thread, so forgive me if these questions have already been answered, but:
- If someone misses payments and/or defaults on their loan, do you report such activities to the proper credit agencies?
- Is there any reason it wouldn't be legal to sue those who do not repay?  Anything that does not make these loans legally binding?

[Tulkas]

I haven't read through this entire thread, so forgive me if these questions have already been answered, but:
- If someone misses payments and/or defaults on their loan, do you report such activities to the proper credit agencies?
- Is there any reason it wouldn't be legal to sue those who do not repay?  Anything that does not make these loans legally binding?

Hello, yes this questions were answered already but i will sum it up for you:

The idea behind the service is to create an ecosystem where trust is built and scammers got tagged and are left aside.
The verification process purpose is to prevent users from creating multiple high scored accounts.

That being said we are working already with collection/credit agencies but this process takes time given the peculiar nature of bitcoin. We do not have a working agreement right now apart from credit verification (not reporting).

[SgtSpike]

I haven't read through this entire thread, so forgive me if these questions have already been answered, but:
- If someone misses payments and/or defaults on their loan, do you report such activities to the proper credit agencies?
- Is there any reason it wouldn't be legal to sue those who do not repay?  Anything that does not make these loans legally binding?

Hello, yes this questions were answered already but i will sum it up for you:

The idea behind the service is to create an ecosystem where trust is built and scammers got tagged and are left aside.
The verification process purpose is to prevent users from creating multiple high scored accounts.

That being said we are working already with collection/credit agencies but this process takes time given the peculiar nature of bitcoin. We do not have a working agreement right now apart from credit verification (not reporting).

Thanks for the answers.

[CaptChadd]

Everytime I try to upload my Address verification scan or Credit scan I get this error:

"Please review the problems below:"

.medium

I am uploading 1200 DPI scans, tired in jpeg and png format.

Can you help please?

[squall1066]

Later when you have debt collection in place, Are you able to use these first instances of non payers? Or do you have to start from when you are legally able to chase?

EDIT - Also why do lenders have to have more than 4 rating to rate a user? I have exactly 4 and I cant rate anyone, Not even if they default to warn other lenders away from possible scammers!!!

[ercolinux]

Later when you have debt collection in place, Are you able to use these first instances of non payers? Or do you have to start from when you are legally able to chase?

EDIT - Also why do lenders have to have more than 4 rating to rate a user? I have exactly 4 and I cant rate anyone, Not even if they default to warn other lenders away from possible scammers!!!

It's a measure to avoid sockpuppet but it don't works IMHO.

A suggestion to Tulkas: is possible to make user rate positively only if they have more the 4 point and rate negative user with overdue payments?

[squall1066]

Later when you have debt collection in place, Are you able to use these first instances of non payers? Or do you have to start from when you are legally able to chase?

EDIT - Also why do lenders have to have more than 4 rating to rate a user? I have exactly 4 and I cant rate anyone, Not even if they default to warn other lenders away from possible scammers!!!

It's a measure to avoid sockpuppet but it don't works IMHO.

A suggestion to Tulkas: is possible to make user rate positively only if they have more the 4 point and rate negative user with overdue payments?

Good point, But does not solve the "lending" problem, When I lend, I cannot rate a user, Many lenders do not have verification, As, like me, Are just lenders, and are not looking to gain rep as they never plan on asking for a loan. And for this reason, I have no need to verify myself further, As I am the one risking my money for possible gain. In any case there will always be a work around, It's not easy figuring out a good system at this point. even the most verified people can run off with BTC.

Maybe one account per I.P address? but then some users like TOR, So I don't know.

[creativex]

One account per IP seems reasonable. Some will use TOR, but then it indicates if TOR has been used, so a potential lender can take that into consideration.

[creativex]

How long does it usually take to verify submitted paperwork? It says 24hrs, is there a large backlog?

One thing more, I noted the watch listing function, but I don't see any way to recall a watch list. Am I just being blind?

[ercolinux]

One account per IP seems reasonable. Some will use TOR, but then it indicates if TOR has been used, so a potential lender can take that into consideration.

Filters based on IP doesn't works: VPN are really cheap to put on,  in many country IP are not fixed (my IP change near ever other week, but if I reset the router 3-4 times almost any time my provider reset the ADSL line and change my IP), there are users that connect to internet via 3G/4G internet keys or using smartphone as router, or using internet cafè and so on. I can easily connect from at least 7 different IP address not counting internet cafè and VPNs

[creativex]

I know, it's far from perfect, but it would be a small step in the right direction. It seems a bit silly that lenders cannot rate borrowers until they've submitted a whole lot of info despite the fact that they're the ones taking all the risk. The alternative is lots of sock puppets popping up and diluting the rating system which is even worse. Too bad people can't or won't just behave.

[squall1066]

Something else I cant get my head around, The site says

 

Never post, ask for personal information or ask to be contacted outside the site, this will endanger your privacy and its against our policy on publishing content.

But you have added the "verified bitcoin talk username"

These conflict IMO. Though may be different usernames, I don't see the point until you actively debt collect, So whats the point?

[boonies4u]

I know, it's far from perfect, but it would be a small step in the right direction. It seems a bit silly that lenders cannot rate borrowers until they've submitted a whole lot of info despite the fact that they're the ones taking all the risk. The alternative is lots of sock puppets popping up and diluting the rating system which is even worse. Too bad people can't or won't just behave.

Talking about that, anyone notice the guy asking for rate-for-rates?