ercolinux
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November 26, 2012, 03:01:27 PM |
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10 days ago Tulkas said that they work on a solution and they've tell something in approx 2 weeks (so by the end of this week). I really hope in solution because I've more then 30BTC of loans not repayed  |
Bitrated user: ercolinux.
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MPOE-PR
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November 26, 2012, 05:13:27 PM |
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10 days ago Tulkas said that they work on a solution and they've tell something in approx 2 weeks (so by the end of this week). I really hope in solution because I've more then 30BTC of loans not repayed Maybe the model just doesn't work. |
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Rassah
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November 26, 2012, 07:53:38 PM |
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I feel the reputation component is really missing from this. We either have to rely on trusting BTCJam that they actually have the personal credit score they say they do, and rely on them to pursue defaulters and their credit reputation for us, or rely on something like the OTC system, which isn't very robust of updateable. I think BTCJam is digging themselves into a corner with trying to stay so legal, protecting themselves against lawsuits from the borrowers whose privacy they have to protect, at the expense of the lenders who are getting ripped off.
Is there a market for a third party, more reliable, and easier to use reputation tracking system?
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Tulkas (OP)
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November 26, 2012, 09:47:02 PM |
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10 days ago Tulkas said that they work on a solution and they've tell something in approx 2 weeks (so by the end of this week). I really hope in solution because I've more then 30BTC of loans not repayed We are moving towards US company incorporation, its taking a little longer than expected but we are handling this with maximum urgency. |
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Tulkas (OP)
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November 26, 2012, 10:13:41 PM |
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10 days ago Tulkas said that they work on a solution and they've tell something in approx 2 weeks (so by the end of this week). I really hope in solution because I've more then 30BTC of loans not repayed Maybe the model just doesn't work. First the numbers: loans: 218 total payments: 920 payments late: 207 fully repaid loans: 97 We have a repayment rate of 77.5% Although the numbers are not perfect they are compatible with peer to peer lending sites at their infancies. We are aiming at 98% repayment rate, and we are getting there since the numbers match. As this is a rather libertarian community we didn't wanted at first to moderate the listings. We are now revisiting that concept since it appears the lenders want that feature along with the peer to peer reputation system and the verification process. All around the world the peer to peer lending services, just like ours, with community based reputation systems are going very well and we are proud to bring that service alive purely with bitcoin. |
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creativex
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November 26, 2012, 10:57:27 PM |
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Yeah I've seen people with several active loans, a low rating, & no proof of ID or address listed being handed funds. This is just not prudent. I've only made a couple small loans but, I asked questions until I was satisfied. Every payment has been on time or early. Just watch out for landmines and don't loan the grocery money or you may starve. This is a great idea and a boon for crypto currency, let's don't let a few bad apples ruin it.
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MPOE-PR
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November 26, 2012, 11:02:23 PM |
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or rely on something like the OTC system, which isn't very robust of updateable.
What do you mean? |
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Rassah
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November 26, 2012, 11:45:43 PM |
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or rely on something like the OTC system, which isn't very robust of updateable.
What do you mean? Requires you use IRC to manage your account and give ratings, for one. |
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MPOE-PR
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November 27, 2012, 12:32:06 AM |
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Requires you use IRC to manage your account and give ratings, for one.
Well yeah, but how's that to do with it being robust? Or updateable? Try webirc. |
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Rassah
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November 27, 2012, 01:28:10 AM |
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Requires you use IRC to manage your account and give ratings, for one.
Well yeah, but how's that to do with it being robust? Or updateable? Try webirc. No one besides us IT types will use a system that requires knowledge of IRC, and use command line type interface to update stuff. This thing needs a good web app or something. |
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Tulkas (OP)
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November 27, 2012, 04:31:50 PM |
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I have to say every loan I have invested in has paid back in full, I think some you just need to do your homework before hitting that invest button, it isn't hard to spot who is scamming and who is not.
Exactly. We have several good opportunities open right now.  |
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ciuciu
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November 27, 2012, 07:21:40 PM |
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I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?
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Rassah
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November 27, 2012, 07:30:42 PM |
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But it requires knowledge of GPG keys, so IRC is a good fit for it since those are the types of people that can use it. Also I have gotten paid a couple coins to teach people about GPG and IRC so I mean it isn't that hard.
If you got paid to teach it, then it's too hard. Ideally this system would be easy and intuitive enough for anyone to use. GPG already has tools that make using it easy. OTC needs something like it, too, even if it's an app (or a web app) that interfaces with IRC in the background. |
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ercolinux
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November 27, 2012, 07:38:53 PM |
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I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?
Same for me: near 20 BTC lent to people with 8 as score never repayed |
Bitrated user: ercolinux.
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Rassah
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November 27, 2012, 09:36:56 PM |
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How do you come to that conclusion?
Because if it's easy to use, it would be possible to figure out intuitively just by looking at it, or at least by asking a friend. Having to pay an expert to explain it to you is kind of the opposite of easy to use. An easy to use OTC system would walk you through getting a GPG key, and would let you register/login with the key and rate people from anywhere, simply by selecting their name and filling out boxes, using a simple web interface that walks you every step of the way. Not make you log into IRC, learn commands to join a specific channel, and type out long strings of code. |
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Rassah
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November 27, 2012, 10:01:47 PM |
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GPG keys aren't something that are easy to learn in the first place, so I doubt you could easily walk them thru it, with some tool tips. It is probably better it is tougher it adds a bit of security, I think your missing the point of irc, is that instead of doing it on web site, your doing it in a chatroom, where many people can see. It is kinda like self policing force.
GPG is very easy to use with a tool like Kleopatra. Also, you can run all your OTC commands in a private chat with gribble, without anyone seeing anything. I'm not suggesting taking OTC off IRC. IRC can stay as the backbone of the system, same as it did for Bitcoin node database. I'm just saying that someone (or many someone's) needs to code an easier to use interface for it. One that can be recognized as a well used and established reputation database. |
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ciuciu
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November 27, 2012, 11:15:53 PM |
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I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?
you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender. I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0. |
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Smoovious
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November 27, 2012, 11:21:58 PM |
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I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers? you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender. I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0. They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity... They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to. Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults... There is no such thing as a no-risk loan. -- Smoov |
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ciuciu
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November 27, 2012, 11:38:55 PM |
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I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers? you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender. I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0. They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity... They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to. Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults... There is no such thing as a no-risk loan. -- Smoov Yes, I agree, nobody can prevent fraud 100%. But 40% fraud is huge. He should make public his actions, if he wants his website to have a future. |
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Smoovious
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November 27, 2012, 11:54:38 PM |
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They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity...
They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to.
Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults...
There is no such thing as a no-risk loan. Yes, I agree, nobody can prevent fraud 100%. But 40% fraud is huge. He should make public his actions, if he wants his website to have a future. I have to agree on the transparency part. I know he has made the claim that the verification info he has taken, will be available to collections actions if needed. No idea if anyone has taken him up on that tho. -- Smoov |
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