[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending

[Bitcoin Oz]

I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw

Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender.
I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0.

They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity...

They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to.

Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults...

There is no such thing as a no-risk loan.

-- Smoov

Unfortunately by offering verification they take on some liability for validating their data. Otherwise you can just buy an identity off silk road and scam  btc over and over again. They also need to be able to place a lien on your irl property.

[ciuciu]

I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw

Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender.
I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0.

They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity...

They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to.

Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults...

There is no such thing as a no-risk loan.

-- Smoov

Yes, I agree, nobody can prevent fraud 100%. But 40% fraud is huge. He should make public his actions, if he wants his website to have a future.

First off it isn't 40% cause you said you invest 100btcs unless you gave 1 btc to hundred loans, it is based on loans and paid off loans. Second most sites that do p2p lending are just matching services they open you up to the people who needs loans and how have money loan, so since he is trying to do everything by the laws, you getting a sweet deal use his site and he allows to you basically use his law team. So I think many people here don't understand what p2p lending is and should read about it before using this type of site otherwise you will be screwed.

4 from 8 lendees have disappered with no payment whatsoever. Tell me more about his law team.

[Seal]

I've made an experiment on your site. I lent 100BTC, only to people with a score of 8. I might get back 60 at maximum. What do you do about the scammers?

you invested 40 btcs in learning to not go with the numbers and do more hw

Wasn't this the job of the owner of the site? His verification methods are bad and he should fell bad. He lost a lender.
I understand it is hard to prevent fraud, but he is not doing anything. He should make public the actions he take against scammers, but I'm afraid they amount to 0.

They can only verify identity... they can't verify integrity...

They also aren't responsible for taking on all the risk themselves, for the lenders' choices on who they lend coin to.

Even brick and mortar banks deal with defaults...

There is no such thing as a no-risk loan.

-- Smoov

Yes, I agree, nobody can prevent fraud 100%. But 40% fraud is huge. He should make public his actions, if he wants his website to have a future.

First off it isn't 40% cause you said you invest 100btcs unless you gave 1 btc to hundred loans, it is based on loans and paid off loans. Second most sites that do p2p lending are just matching services they open you up to the people who needs loans and how have money loan, so since he is trying to do everything by the laws, you getting a sweet deal use his site and he allows to you basically use his law team. So I think many people here don't understand what p2p lending is and should read about it before using this type of site otherwise you will be screwed.

4 from 8 lendees have disappered with no payment whatsoever. Tell me more about his law team.

I've had similar experiences. I've lent to a number of individuals all with seemingly good BTCJam ratings and scores and two of them are defaulting on their debt repayment schedules. As it stands I am set to receive back less then I invested originally.

Judging from experiences shared above, this is a common story.

[MPOE-PR]

I've had similar experiences. I've lent to a number of individuals all with seemingly good BTCJam ratings and scores and two of them are defaulting on their debt repayment schedules. As it stands I am set to receive back less then I invested originally.

Judging from experiences shared above, this is a common story.

Sorta like the new GLBSE?

[gweedo]

I've had similar experiences. I've lent to a number of individuals all with seemingly good BTCJam ratings and scores and two of them are defaulting on their debt repayment schedules. As it stands I am set to receive back less then I invested originally.

Judging from experiences shared above, this is a common story.

Yes it is common cause no one does hw, I think people are dumb, and leave all responsibility to the site. THE SITE IS MEANT match loans to people who want to loan out coins, they give you some information that these people are who they say who they are, that has no bases for making loans. It helps cause those people are not anonymous, but what do you think BTCjam going to do, go to these people's houses with baseball bats and get your coins back at all cost? I mean come on, I think it is amazing they are even consider compensations for people that lost money due to there lack of intelligence.

[ciuciu]

I've had similar experiences. I've lent to a number of individuals all with seemingly good BTCJam ratings and scores and two of them are defaulting on their debt repayment schedules. As it stands I am set to receive back less then I invested originally.

Judging from experiences shared above, this is a common story.

Yes it is common cause no one does hw, I think people are dumb, and leave all responsibility to the site. THE SITE IS MEANT match loans to people who want to loan out coins, they give you some information that these people are who they say who they are, that has no bases for making loans. It helps cause those people are not anonymous, but what do you think BTCjam going to do, go to these people's houses with baseball bats and get your coins back at all cost? I mean come on, I think it is amazing they are even consider compensations for people that lost money due to there lack of intelligence.

So he has no law team as you implied earlier. He is not doing a thing, just help the scammers and himself. Are you to owner of the site or a PR person? Why don't you let the owner answer?

And we got it that we are stupid and you are smart, but we have to live too.

[ciuciu]

So he has no low team as you implied earlier. He is not doing a thing just help the scammers and himself. Are you to owner of the site or a PR person? Why don't you let him answer?

First off I never claimed I was PR, or owner, I am just someone who enjoys the site, and knows how to use it to make long term coins pretty successfully since I have yet to be scammed on the site. Second Read his post he said he has a law team that is discussing how to handle scammers, and then he claimed that a compensation portion could be in place. But to be honest I been involved in many p2p lending sites with fiat currencies and I know how they work quite well.

I appreciate your insight and I envy your skills, now can you please let the owner speak for us the stupid?

Thank you.

[ciuciu]

So he has no low team as you implied earlier. He is not doing a thing just help the scammers and himself. Are you to owner of the site or a PR person? Why don't you let him answer?

First off I never claimed I was PR, or owner, I am just someone who enjoys the site, and knows how to use it to make long term coins pretty successfully since I have yet to be scammed on the site. Second Read his post he said he has a law team that is discussing how to handle scammers, and then he claimed that a compensation portion could be in place. But to be honest I been involved in many p2p lending sites with fiat currencies and I know how they work quite well.

I appreciate your insight and I envy your skills, now can you please let the owner speak for us the stupid?

Thank you.

He did speak he is investigating a compensation part of the site, to help keep risk down, which is insanely nice, cause most p2p lending sites don't care if you lose money, they only want fees.

I guess a little update won't kill him.

[Tulkas]

Peer to peer lending sites work exactly like us, except they sometimes offer collector services with a 30% recovery fee. Some moderate the listings, we didn't want to do that at first, because we dont like people censoring things.

I will repost here updated site-wide statistics:

loans: 228
total payments: 964
payments late: 215
fully repaid loans: 105

We have a repayment rate of 77.69%.
The majority of unpaid loans are from anonymous borrowers.

People invested multiple times on loans with the exact same title/description/amount, even if the user had several open, unpaid loans. People have invested on 500% daily interest loans!

We have several good listings open right now. I'm sure that if we moderated the listings the repayment rate would be much higher, perhaps this is the only way to go.

Yes, we are investigating some compensation to early users, because the first version of our rating algorithm didn't took into account the number of open credit lines of the user. More news soon.

[ciuciu]

Peer to peer lending sites work exactly like us, except they sometimes offer collector services with a 30% recovery fee. Some moderate the listings, we didn't want to do that at first, because we dont like people censoring things.

I will repost here updated site-wide statistics:

loans: 228
total payments: 964
payments late: 215
fully repaid loans: 105

We have a repayment rate of 77.69%.
The majority of unpaid loans are from anonymous borrowers.

People invested multiple times on loans with the exact same title/description/amount, even if the user had several open, unpaid loans. People have invested on 500% daily interest loans!

We have several good listings open right now. I'm sure that if we moderated the listings the repayment rate would be much higher, perhaps this is the only way to go.

Yes, we are investigating some compensation to early users, because the first version of our rating algorithm didn't took into account the number of open credit lines of the user. More news soon.

I think monitoring the listings will be GREAT. By now you have more experience than we, the stupid . I will follow your actions with interest.

[ciuciu]

People invested multiple times on loans with the exact same title/description/amount, even if the user had several open, unpaid loans. People have invested on 500% daily interest loans!

That is insane! Just shows how people can be duped so easily. Great job with the site keep it up!

Just a friendly reminder Gweedo, your attitude will not bring you friends or customers.

[ciuciu]

People invested multiple times on loans with the exact same title/description/amount, even if the user had several open, unpaid loans. People have invested on 500% daily interest loans!

That is insane! Just shows how people can be duped so easily. Great job with the site keep it up!

Just a friendly reminder Gweedo, your attitude will not bring you friends or customers.

The only friends I need are my coins I am sorry you lost your coins and are all mad that you made mistakes it happens. If you listened to what I told you be making those coins back in no time so while you hate my attitude you could learn a valuable lesson.

I don't remember being mad. You seem to have a problem with us asking questions and I don't know why. I already learned my lesson and I pulled all my funds out. All the best in your lending career!

[Tulkas]

People invested multiple times on loans with the exact same title/description/amount, even if the user had several open, unpaid loans. People have invested on 500% daily interest loans!

That is insane! Just shows how people can be duped so easily. Great job with the site keep it up!

thanks gweedo!

[Tulkas]

I think monitoring the listings will be GREAT. By now you have more experience than we, the stupid . I will follow your actions with interest.

Its good to know.

Perhaps a voting system that will bring listings up or down, similar to Reddit.

I don't think anyone here is stupid. There is room for improvement and constructive criticism is welcome.

Also, perhaps you should take a look at some of the lower risk listings like https://btcjam.com/listings/725 and https://btcjam.com/listings/584.

[Drifter]

I wish I could ignore specific users and their listings, or at least list their name on the browse listings page so I can pass by them. Some of their actions are very telling and I want no business with them in the future, despite good reputation on the site. It's a pain to click on the new listings just to see half of them from people I never wish to loan to.

[Smoovious]

I wish I could ignore specific users and their listings, or at least list their name on the browse listings page so I can pass by them. Some of their actions are very telling and I want no business with them in the future, despite good reputation on the site. It's a pain to click on the new listings just to see half of them from people I never wish to loan to.

+1 to showing their name... if we can see their rating/reputation in the summary, we should be able to see their  name too.

-- Smoov

[Seal]

I think monitoring the listings will be GREAT. By now you have more experience than we, the stupid . I will follow your actions with interest.

Its good to know.

Perhaps a voting system that will bring listings up or down, similar to Reddit.

I don't think anyone here is stupid. There is room for improvement and constructive criticism is welcome.

Also, perhaps you should take a look at some of the lower risk listings like https://btcjam.com/listings/725 and https://btcjam.com/listings/584.

Thanks for the consistency Tulkas. If I leave negative feedback for a user who is defaulting, I'm dubious that it will put them off paying even further... Should I, a. leave the negative feedback anyway. or b. not for now.

[Shermo]

I think you should make changes so that if any changes are made to a listing that all current investors are notified by email of the changes.

https://btcjam.com/listings/584

The listing above has been previously extended because it wasn't close to the amount and now the amount needed reduced by half, both without any notification to investors.

It doesn't instil much confidence in an investment if details such as how much they need can be changed at the last minute so they can grab whatever is available.

[MPOE-PR]

I think you should make changes so that if any changes are made to a listing that all current investors are notified by email of the changes.

https://btcjam.com/listings/584

The listing above has been previously extended because it wasn't close to the amount and now the amount needed reduced by half, both without any notification to investors.

It doesn't instil much confidence in an investment if details such as how much they need can be changed at the last minute so they can grab whatever is available.

More to the point, btcjam seems to have learned nothing from the (expensive! dearly paid!) GLBSE fiasco.

If a borrower is to change his specified contract, there's no way for people lending him money to prove what the contract said originally. This is dumb enough to take the site off the map.

[Tulkas]

I think you should make changes so that if any changes are made to a listing that all current investors are notified by email of the changes.

https://btcjam.com/listings/584

The listing above has been previously extended because it wasn't close to the amount and now the amount needed reduced by half, both without any notification to investors.

It doesn't instil much confidence in an investment if details such as how much they need can be changed at the last minute so they can grab whatever is available.

Yes, I agree this is a delicate matter and understand your concern.

The borrower presented the reasons and created another listing, but, if you or any other lender are not confortable I can withdraw the investment for you. I can assure you that the repayment parameters will never ever change, and the withdraw function is under review right now.